Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead)

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This was always a day for us to remember all those who’d died in our family and was in no way anticatholic. We’d go to the nonperpetual care cemeteries and clean them and place new flowers at the graves of parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents. While pulling weeds and raking, we’d talk about those people and their lives. It was a wonderful day of family recollection. It helped keep the gravesites neat & tidy too.
 
Now, about placing the deceased’s favorite food at the grave site. My Dad’s favorite thing to consume was beer, and if I left it at the grave site I guarantee you it would be gone the next day. 😃
 
PNewton is right in saying that we cannot judge the day “wrong” because of the errors of some people. Halloween too has received a “death sentence” by some because of similar misunderstandings. Praying for the dead is a natural truth. All truth comes from God. Such truths were put in the world in the intellect of men so that ALL men could find God. Just because pagan customs surrounding a natural truth have been Christianized with the supernatural Truth does not mean that Catholics today are practicing pagan customs. It merely means that the natural “truth” given to us by God and understood and celebrated by pagans has been brought to its fuller and complete understanding; retaining the supportive customs helps a culture retain their heritage where ever possible. The Church does not seek to divorce people from their heritage especially when its customs are expressions of truth.
 
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cheddarsox:
It is like creating a shrine for a saint. There is a “meeting place” and we make it pretty and place items of remembrance there. We feel that somehow the souls know that we are taking time and making a special effort at this time to remember them and our relationships.

You often hear people share stories of times they “felt the presence” of a deceased loved one. Perhaps a song came on the radio at the “perfect” time or some other such sign. It is rather like that. We believe that this is a special time of union, of us being able to let them know we are thinking of them.

I guess there is the sense that they are “visiting” and perhaps that goes against Catholic theology. Perhaps it would be better for Catholics to forgoe this holiday.

It is more than remembering the dead. It is also all about us confronting our own mortality, being reminded of the impermanence of life, etc. etc. It is a very significant and personal holiday and engages one on many levels. I guess I have been away from the Catholic church long enough that I wasn’t seeing it through that filter.

Sorry if I offended. It is such an important holiday, and one so full of meaning for my family and I that I jumped into this discussion. I will once again retreat from posting.

cheddar
No offense taken at all!
You did a really good job describing the beauty of the occasion.

Everything sounds acceptable by Catholic standards so far…the only caution would be whether setting up the offrenda is a means by which the people on earth are calling out the souls, reaching out to the other world in order to bring them back…

It doesn’t seem that’s the case though, at least not by what I’ve read here, especially by you, and by what I’ve observed here at home in our parish celebrations.

It’s more like All Saints/Souls Day is already designated by the Church to be a special day of rememberance…
Latin American cultures remember in a very real way…they spend weeks preparing for and anticipating this special day…it leads them to go through photo albums, recall stories, think about the deceased while they’re out shopping - kind of like getting ready for a birthday party for the deceased - which, perhaps it kind of is…

They gather together as a family, as a community, in their churches, at the cemetaries, to set up the offrendas…if the soul happens to be allowed to visit on this special day, then great…if not, then that’s ok too, the point was to spend the day thinking and praying over the deceased and that was accomplished. But I certainly haven’t seen anybody reciting incantations or prayers which seem to call the deceased from their realm over to ours - that would be crossing the line.

Perhaps that was the custom before Catholicism hit, but only the very ‘old school’ people would still hold to that belief. It’s the same with us and the darn Christmas tree and Easter eggs…that’s all pagan stuff we’ve Christianized…

I much prefer the Dia de Los Muertos over the Halloween customs, it’s more reverent and more sincere.
 
I have never heard anyone offer incantations to bring back the dead, nor do we believe that we can speak to the dead nor they to us. We are remembering and honoring. We leave food and drink, and hope that they receive the “essence” of it, and feel the love and respect we put into preparing their favorites.

We are not seeking counsel of the dead. But there is the idea that somehow, they are allowed to visit and dwell with us, in a silent, respectful way. We are more aware of them on these days.

there is none of the fear or ghoulish aspects of secualr Halloween. We do “poke fun” at the nature of death as an end, and have images of skeletons continuing “life”. It is a way of showing that we do not believe death is the end of everything.

cheddar
 
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cheddarsox:
I have never heard anyone offer incantations to bring back the dead, nor do we believe that we can speak to the dead nor they to us. We are remembering and honoring. We leave food and drink, and hope that they receive the “essence” of it, and feel the love and respect we put into preparing their favorites.

We are not seeking counsel of the dead. But there is the idea that somehow, they are allowed to visit and dwell with us, in a silent, respectful way. We are more aware of them on these days.

there is none of the fear or ghoulish aspects of secualr Halloween. We do “poke fun” at the nature of death as an end, and have images of skeletons continuing “life”. It is a way of showing that we do not believe death is the end of everything.

cheddar
Well Thomist here in this thread sure tried to make the day out to be more sinister than it is then.

I’m glad to learn it’s a beautiful of a memorial as it appears to be. I may have to switch sides next year and forget about halloween while focusing on el Dia de los Muertos. 👍
 
Whoa now!!!

I was merely pointing out some rather obvious deficiencies in the celebration of this by some groups. I also pointed out similar deficiencies in ‘Catholics’ “celebrating” the secular halloween instead of our Catholic All Saints’ Eve!!!

Obviously these originally pagan parties can - and at times have been - ‘baptized’. But most of the halloween and dia de los muertes activities around here are inconsonant with Christian belief. My post was intended to show that, and to - through it - suggest the ‘baptizing’ of them so that they will be in accord with our faith. One way we’ve done that is by having an All Saints’ Eve party - starting with Mass, followed by a potluck dinner and healthy fun and games with the kids invited to attend dressed up as Saints.

Regarding cheddarsox’ comment that the dead visit and partake of the “essence” of the offered food and drink, this is an absurd as well as unchristian belief. Spirits ARE NOT physical, and therefore neither need nor are able to eat or drink. For that we must all await the Resurrection at the end of time, when we WILL be reunited with our bodies. Honoring the memories of our departed, praying for them and asking them to pray for us are - of course - perfectly in accord with our Catholic belief, practice, customs and various cultural heritages.

Anyhow, good discussion.
 
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thomist:
Whoa now!!!

Regarding cheddarsox’ comment that the dead visit and partake of the “essence” of the offered food and drink, this is an absurd as well as unchristian belief. Spirits ARE NOT physical, and therefore neither need nor are able to eat or drink.
It would be good to point out that cheddarsox is not a Catholic, so I admit that I might very well be taking part in activities that are not permissable for Catholics.

Also, by “essence” we mean the scent of the food and the love with which it was prepared. It is obvious that the food and drink are not taken up by the spirits. But as the scent of incense is pleasing to the divine, and as the expense and effort of purchasing and using it shows our reverence, so does the scent of the food and the love put into the preparation, show our love to our friends on the other side.
cheddar
 
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thomist:
Whoa now!!!

I was merely pointing out some rather obvious deficiencies in the celebration of this by some groups. I also pointed out similar deficiencies in ‘Catholics’ “celebrating” the secular halloween instead of our Catholic All Saints’ Eve!!!
Yes, you did. But I got the impression this ‘some groups’ was a majority rather than the exception. Perhaps I read too much into that part.
Obviously these originally pagan parties can - and at times have been - ‘baptized’. But most of the halloween and dia de los muertes activities around here are inconsonant with Christian belief. My post was intended to show that, and to - through it - suggest the ‘baptizing’ of them so that they will be in accord with our faith. One way we’ve done that is by having an All Saints’ Eve party - starting with Mass, followed by a potluck dinner and healthy fun and games with the kids invited to attend dressed up as Saints.
But all of our Christian Holidays have been ‘baptized’ - Christmas, Easter, Mardi Gras…and I imagine there are ‘some groups’ of people who still hold onto the underlying pagan interpretation of those celebrations.

Even in the Old Testament, and particularly in the New, you can see where Judaism incorporated pagan elements of communities into their practices. Look at circumcision - the reason it became law was because Abraham slept with Sarai’s Egyptian maidservant, Hagar - circumcision was a practice of the egyptians when the males reached 13 or so (according to Jeff Cavin’s Great Adventure Bible Study). In the New Testament Paul had to address how old ways would be viewed under the light of Christianity and he often ruled on the matter, finding a way to meld the two together.

What do you mean when you say “most of the halloween and dia de los muertes activities around here are inconsonant with Christian belief”? What about the parties are inconsonant? All our Catholic Holiday traditions have been ‘baptized’ for so long I would think you’d find very few people who even know the traditions stemmed from pagan practices, let alone what those beliefs were at the time.
Regarding cheddarsox’ comment that the dead visit and partake of the “essence” of the offered food and drink, this is an absurd as well as unchristian belief. Spirits ARE NOT physical, and therefore neither need nor are able to eat or drink. For that we must all await the Resurrection at the end of time, when we WILL be reunited with our bodies. Honoring the memories of our departed, praying for them and asking them to pray for us are - of course - perfectly in accord with our Catholic belief, practice, customs and various cultural heritages.
Cheddarsox responded quite accurately about the smells being offered to the heavens and pleasantly received. Old Testament shows God found the scent of slaughtered Ram to be most pleasing to him (Genesis 29:18). If God can smell aromas in heaven, then why wouldn’t we assume those around him in heaven could also smell them?

Is there anything in particular about the offrendas which does not seem to you to be an appropriate way to honor the deceased?
Anyhow, good discussion.
Agreed. 🙂
 
Deacon Tony560:
…In Latin America this day is not gloomy. Vendors sell candles in the shape of skulls, skeletons, or coffins. Small cakes are made in the shape of bones and are called, “Saint’s bones.” …
Excuse me, I object to this. In my country we DID NOT do this, no one in our family has ever done this, and no one in our entire home town has ever done this, and as far as I and my family knows, no one in the entire country has ever participated in what is really a Mexican celebration. On All Souls’ Day (Dia de los Muertos) we prayed and remembered our dead, the whole town visiting the cemetery and offering the Masses. This was the day the graves were cleaned and flowers were planted near the tombs. (I speak in past tense because we don’t live there anymore and we don’t have any dead here anyway… but I’m sure the tradition continues in the same way over there.) I don’t remember if it was gloomy or not, but I know it was not an atmosphere of (I just know I’m gonna get clobbered for this) jokes, disrespect for the dead, and going to extremes and borderline heretical associations. I’m sorry, but we do not look kindly on being lumped in with the Mexicans in their Dia de los Muertos celebrations.

Take it however you will, I ask you to please remember this because it is really frustrating to get it all the time from North Americans.

Unfortunately, up here in Canada all I could do was go to Mass and pray in private, since as we all know the society is not exactly Catholic…
 
I agree that not all Latin American countries celebrate “Dia de los Muertos”… In Puerto Rico we simply go to church on that day, pray rosaries for the dead and go to the cemetery to bring fresh flowers and clean up the tombstone.

In the smaller towns we do processions leading to the church and have special masses for the dead.

One small thing we might do differently than in some other Latin Countries is that after New Year’s on January the 6th we celebrate “El Dia de los Reyes Magos” (The Day of the 3 Wisemen)…

The children the night before going to bed put grass in a small box under their bed where supposedly the “Wisemen” will leave gifts for them as they did for the Baby Jesus… So, when they wake up they will have the gifts of the “3 Wisemen” waiting for them under the bed. 😉

I remember doing this many times as a child and sometimes I would sleep by the Christmas tree next to the nativity scene under it and stare at the Wisemen til’ falling asleep. I thought if I stared hard enough I might catch them giving the baby Jesus gifts again. lol… What it was to have the mind of a child back then. 🙂

** Edited to add:** Puerto Ricans love to extend Christmas an extra month. LOL I think we have the longest Christmas season. hehehe

God Bless
 
Maryam, my country does that, too! 😃 After we moved here we kept up the tradition for a little until we were all past the age. Anyway, where I’m from the kids don’t put grass in their boxes, but they do put up socks or stockings (or in some cases, nothing… lol) expecting them to be filled with goodies (usually candy! :bounce: ) from Los Reyes Magos.

I wonder where the tradition comes from, and how many Latin American countries share it…

You know, after Nov. 1 and Nov. 2 I felt kind of strange… Did anyone get that feeling of being left hanging after these two really spiritually charged days? I don’t know, maybe it’s just me and I’m heading back into a period of dryness… 😦
 
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