Diaconal Bombshell: “Wait, this isn’t what I signed up for!”

[lizaanne]

And why do you feel marriage and a vocation of service are mutually exclusive?

Sex is unitive in a marriage. Marriage takes all the strength, grace, and sacramental help it can get. Living a good Catholic marriage is not always easy. To take away the amazing graces from sex within marriage is not healthy. Yes yes yes, I realize there are couples who can’t have sex for one reason or another, so don’t even go there, that is an exception to the rule. I have long felt that a man can’t serve two vocations, something has to give. And expecting this of married men in the diaconate is no different.

Pick a vocation and dedicate your life to it. Don’t try to do two things only halfway.

~Liza

 

[ConstantineTG]

Sex is unitive in a marriage. Marriage takes all the strength, grace, and sacramental help it can get. Living a good Catholic marriage is not always easy. To take away the amazing graces from sex within marriage is not healthy. Yes yes yes, I realize there are couples who can’t have sex for one reason or another, so don’t even go there, that is an exception to the rule. I have long felt that a man can’t serve two vocations, something has to give. And expecting this of married men in the diaconate is no different.

Pick a vocation and dedicate your life to it. Don’t try to do two things only halfway.

~Liza

Many Eastern priests and deacons have lived good lives with both vocations, I can’t imagine why it won’t work even for Roman Catholic deacons. Even celibate priests don’t give 24/7 to the flock, they have off days and personal time during weekdays. They take care of siblings and parents, its not like they don’t have family outside the parishioners.

 

[dcnbillj]

Here is a link to Deacon Bill Ditewig’s blog, where he posts a very insightful explanation of this issue.

pilgrimsfootsteps.blogspot.com/2011/01/so-i-leave-town-for-few-days-and-look.html

 

[ddarko]

Why, specifically, do you think this is a “mess?” And why do you feel marriage and a vocation of service are mutually exclusive?

I don’t know. What if it is mutually exclusive? I’ve seen the Church cite ample psychological and social evidence to support the celibacy rule but back off when it comes to these kind of issues.

I think it might be better in some cases for us humans to accept that we will never be perfectly happy in this life no matter which vocation we choose and try to do the best we can in our current vocation. If we are currently married, it is obvious that God in his providence wanted us to be married.

As a married man, we can still talk of God. Still preach to others. Still evangelize. It will also be in right amounts and the priority of ones own family is still safe guarded since those things are not an obligation.

Just trying to embrace all the possible vocations at once seem like… well I dunno… a mess?

God Bless

 

[pnewton]

If and when the Church addresses this issue, I will say there is cause for concern. This is just a disciplinary issue and anything involving celibacy is subject to change. The current deacons may be dispensed and the incoming deacons be obligated to celibacy. The current deacons may be forced to resign or make a vow of chastity. Or, the discipline can be changed to, well anything.

While numbers aren’t everything, any reduction in the number of clerics will have require some additional decisions. All this is way outside my paygrade.

I do not agree that it must be an either/or vocation. I have known too many times when a priest must become gardner, handyman, taxi driver and take on many other roles out of necessity. Multi-tasking is almost a requirement.

 

[AcolyteLector]

Continence and chastity are not the same thing.

Continence is avoiding sexual activity, whether permanently or for a time.

Chastity is maintaining sexual purity according to one’s state in life: for the single, virginity, for the married, sexual activity only with one’s spouse etc…

I think there is some confusion around this issue and the Vatican will have to clarify it.

Meanwhile, there is a lot of commentary following this blog post by Fr Z:
wdtprs.com/blog/2011/01/continence-and-married-deaconspriests/

Could you please then explain the difference between chastity and celibacy? (With reference to continence, if its fits into this triad?)

 

[bobolink]

Could you please then explain the difference between chastity and celibacy? (With reference to continence, if its fits into this triad?)

Chastity is purity according to one’s state in life. All are called to chastity - married men, priests, single people.

The vow of celibacy simply means a priest vows not to get married. One would hope that the priest would be chaste according to his state in life i.e. continent and living purity.

(I now have a question - why do religious take a vow of chastity when ALL are called to chastity anyway? Shouldn’t the religious take a vow of celibacy?)

It’s so simple being a single young man. Life is so simple!

Fr Z has another post on what deacons are really for, here:
wdtprs.com/blog/2011/01/what-are-deacons-really-for/

 

[gmarie21]

I have long felt that a man can’t serve two vocations, something has to give. And expecting this of married men in the diaconate is no different.

Pick a vocation and dedicate your life to it. Don’t try to do two things only halfway.

~Liza

In our program they make a point to emphasize to each man discerning the permanent diaconate that their marriage is their first and number one vocation.

I wonder if you and those who share your concerns have an understanding of what the permanent diconate is all about and what is required of deacons (not to mention that not all deacons are assigned to parishes, though most are).

 

[KostyaJMJ]

I am confused. Does this mean that nobody bothered to read the code of canon law? It is right there in black and white as clear as day. How can you miss that?

In any case I find the whole thing immensely amusing. I can’t imagine that many married men would have become deacons to begin with if they new it meant perfect continence. Expecting that of them now is too rich. God sure does write a lot of comedy…

 

[Pug]

The REAL reason wives have to agree before their husbands can become deacons…

 

[whm]

This came up here several years ago. It’s hard not to see the periodic resurrection of this topic as an attack on the diaconate itself in its post-Vatican II form, by casting subtle doubts on the canonical legitimacy and moral standing of married deacons who are living their marital vocations in full conformity with the requirements of their Ordinary and the National Directory for the Formation, Ministry, and Life of Permanent Deacons in the United States.

Yes, by all means, let’s assist the Church by forcing men to choose between a vocation of service and abandoning the marital bed of their wives of 20 or 30 years…

Bingo, it is an attack on deacons. For whatever reason there people in the church who come across as some how threatened or jealous of permanent deacons. They are considered part of the post vac II “problem”.

 

[bobolink]

Bingo, it is an attack on deacons. For whatever reason there people in the church who come across as some how threatened or jealous of permanent deacons. They are considered part of the post vac II “problem”.

CCC 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

 

[KostyaJMJ]

More insight:

Sex and the Married Deacon - John W. Martens

I do find it strange that Ed Peters would use his blogging son to push such an obscure issue out front.

 

[dans0622]

More insight:

Sex and the Married Deacon - John W. Martens

I do find it strange that Ed Peters would use his blogging son to push such an obscure issue out front.

Hello KostyaJMJ,

“Use his blogging son…”? Dr. Peters has his own website/blog and put his article there so that those who are interested in it could read it: it’s not that easy to find the Studia canonica journal at your local library. Other bloggers are obviously free, then, to mention the blog and article, whether they are named Peters or not.

The Martens article has examples of rash judgment, a false attribution of a quote, and general muddying of the waters. I was not impressed.

Thanks for your time.
Dan

 

[whm]

CCC 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

How ironic.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

The article posted is most relevant when it states that “some” left their families and children.

But certainly not all did. Nor did Jesus ever counsel anyone to abandon their wife, and especially not their children, in order to follow him.

The rule of celibacy is MAN MADE, and as such, it is subject to change. It is my devout prayer that it WILL be changed, during my lifetime.

BUT, any Deacon who signed up after Vatican II certainly knew that he was prohibited from remarrying, if his spouse dies. He is also prohibited from having any sexual relationship outside of marriage (as we all are). There is not a single permanent Deacon ordained in the Roman Catholic Church that was NOT aware that he could not remarry, LONG BEFORE HE WAS ORDAINED.

There is simply no excuse for those that claim that they didn’t know, or for providing exceptions so that some deacons can (and do) remarry.

As to celibacy within marriage, that is NOT called for by any church law, rule or tradition. Just because someone writes an article does not make it either accurate, or binding upon anyone.

 

[chuckram]

As to celibacy within marriage, that is NOT called for by any church law, rule or tradition. Just because someone writes an article does not make it either accurate, or binding upon anyone.

I believe you mean continence within marriage, celibacy within marriage is a logical impossiblity since being celibate means not being married.

To say that it’s not called for by any church law, rule or tradition is a little odd as well since the code of canon law is specifically cited. It’s what the whole article is about - canon law.

Can. 277 §1. Clerics are obliged to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and therefore are bound to celibacy which is a special gift of God by which sacred ministers can adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and are able to dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and humanity.

Multiple posters are still having some issues with terminolgy as well.

Celibate = not married
Chaste = no sex if you are single, only sex with your spouse if you are.
Continence = no sex regardless of your marital state.

Everyone is expected to be chaste. Priests are bound to be celibate. The argument is about whether the church expects her permenent deacons to “observe perfect and perpetual continence” within their marriage. It’s pretty clear that according to canon law, she does. Even more interesting is the fact that when the canon was revised in 1983, a previous draft included a dispensation from continence for the married deacon, but that provision was specifically removed by Pope John Paul II.

I was ready to put in my application this February for our diaconate formation program. I cannot in good conscience do that now. I won’t willingly ignore canon law, nor am I or my wife prepared to give up our marital rights.

My point is that clarification needs to come from Rome. This really does have the potential to become a theological and pastoral nightmare. We can not simply pretend that the code doesn’t exist.

I agree with Dr. Peters comment on his website - “If a sexually active (married) diaconate, and a fortiori, a sexually active (married) priesthood is, in the end, a contradiction of canon law and Western tradition…then only two choices will ultimately be available: (a) change the law and abandon the tradition, or (b) accept the law and observe the tradition, in which case, obviously, reasonable accommodation must be made for the thousands of men who were ordained without being advised of the requirements of their state. Those are important questions, not trivial ones.”

With Immaculate Mary

 

[VeroNihilVerius]

The married deacon is most certainly not required nor requested to give up marital relations with his wife.

This has already been shared, but from the USCCB website:

“Celibacy Affects Every Deacon: In one way or another, celibacy affects every deacon, married or unmarried. Understanding the nature of celibacy—its value and its practice—are essential to the married deacon. Not only does this understanding strengthen and nurture his own commitment to marital chastity, but it also helps to prepare him for the possibility of living celibate chastity should his wife predecease him. This concern is particularly unique within the diaconate. Tragically, some deacons who were married at the time of ordination only begin to face the issues involved with celibacy upon the death of their wives. As difficult as this process is, all deacons need to appreciate the impact celibacy can have on their lives and ministry.”

This is quite clear. A married deacon is expected to live in chastity in his state in life (which we all share), but that there is a “possibility of living celibate chastity should his wife predecease him.”

The permanent deacon is also expected to be first and foremost a husband and father, and part of a healthy marriage is to share in physical intimacy within the realms of chastity.

If you disagree, I urge you to post a question on the “Ask an Apologist” forum, as I am certain they will be happy to clear up the confusion.

In Christ, Through Mary,

+VNV+

 

[larsenl1]

I was ready to put in my application this February for our diaconate formation program. I cannot in good conscience do that now. I won’t willingly ignore canon law, nor am I or my wife prepared to give up our marital rights.

Dear chuckram
I am friends with a deacon’s wife and she speaks often about how much she learned during the diaconate. It is a four year program of formation during which there is psychological testing and seminars for spouses. The formation of the diaconate is lengthy process because there is so much to learn. There are men who enter the diaconate who do not become ordained to the permanent diaconate. I guess what I’m trying to say is that you should not give up at this point. Apply for the program, and let the priests and theologians guide you in formation. If it is not right for you, they will advise you on the issue.

We need deacons with your devotion to the church.

God Bless you

 

[Vico]

1983 Canon Law (Latin Church) shows that the married have rights to conjugal living and conjugal act (1135, 1151), which is sexual cooperation (1061, 1096). Canon 277 does not state that the wife’s consent is to continence: to agree to not exercise her natural marital rights, although it might be a legitimate cause (1151). The consent of the wife is to the husband being admitted to the diaconate (1031). Canon 277* does state that the diocesan bishop is compenent to establish more specific norms concerning continence.*

Can. 277 §1. Clerics are obliged to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and therefore are bound to celibacy which is a special gift of God by which sacred ministers can adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and are able to dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and humanity. §2. Clerics are to behave with due prudence towards persons whose company can endanger their obligation to observe continence or give rise to scandal among the faithful. §3. The diocesan bishop is competent to establish more specific norms concerning this matter and to pass judgment in particular cases concerning the observance of this obligation.

Can. 1031 §2. A candidate for the permanent diaconate who is not married is not to be admitted to the diaconate until after completing at least the twenty-fifth year of age; one who is married, not until after completing at least the thirty-fifth year of age and with the consent of his wife.

Can. 1135 Each spouse has an equal duty and right to those things which belong to the partnership of conjugal life.

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.

Can. 1061 §1. A valid marriage between the baptized is called ratum tantum if it has not been consummated; it is called ratum et consummatum if the spouses have performed between themselves in a human fashion a conjugal act which is suitable in itself for the procreation of offspring, to which marriage is ordered by its nature and by which the spouses become one flesh.

Can. 1096 §1. For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.

Some recent statements that follow, on married deacons, are not papal, but do address continence.

In 1998 the Congregation for Catholic Education, Congregation for the Clergy, published Basic Norms for the Formation of Permanent Deacons, Directory for the Ministry And Life of Permanent Deacons.

Regarding Married Deacons there are two different terms used “a certain continence” and “perfect and perpetual continence” for different times in a married deacons life (my emphasis):
61. … This love grows thanks to chastity which flourishes, even in the exercise of paternal responsibilities, by respect for spouses and** the practice of a certain continence**. This virtue fosters a mutual self-giving which soon becomes evident in ministry. …

1. … In particular, the widowed deacon should be supported in living perfect and perpetual continence. (225) He should be helped to understand the profound ecclesial reasons which preclude his remarriage (cf. *1 Tim *3:12), in accordance with the constant discipline of the Church in the East and West.
   vatican.va/roman_curia/co…iaconi_en.html

In The Ideal Family of the Permanent Deacon by J. Francis Cardinal Stafford President of the Pontifical Council for the Laity, 2000, we read: 10. … In this context of the deacon’s intercessory mission, it is important to recall that deacons must observe conjugal chastity (Humanae Vitae,21-22). As a member of the sacramental, three-ordered hierarchy, I always have before me the teaching of the ancient Council of Carthage (390 AD). It best summarizes the reason why all clerics in major Orders** were obliged at that time to perfect continence**: “so that they may attain in all simplicity what they are asking from God.” Even today, deacons, priests and bishops are ordained primarily for intercessory prayer beginning with their ministry of the altar.
vatican.va/roman_curia/co…00_idf_en.html