DICI: Opening of the Doctrinal Discussions Between Rome and the Society of Saint Pius X

  • Thread starter Thread starter NeelyAnn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ProVobis said:
Are you sure about that? Read your own definitions carefully.

Biweekly:
Click to expand...
ByzCath said:
Yes, usually in definitions the first one is the most common usage. That does not mean that the others are wrong just not as common.
Click to expand...
LOL

When I first read the article, I though this would make for a short thread and short posts. After all, both sides agree to keep it low key and one could expect would be for one to “conjecture, surmise, or even to imagine”.

Yet the frequency of the meeting becomes a topic.
 
Great response/post…I totally agree. 👍
Ultima_Ratio said:
What was the unambiguous teaching of Vatican II with respect to religious liberty that John Paul II tirelessly promoted? And can you please explain what ecumenism is?

The SSPX is competely inside of the Church. The “excommunication” was lifted by the Pope without the SSPX having to renounce anything. They are now completely inside the Church. What is lacking is a canonical status; but a canonical status is not required to be completely inside the Church.

Really? Then please explain what Vatican II taught regarding religious liberty, and what ecumenism is.

It would be best for you to begin preparing yourself now for what is to come. If you don’t begin to prepare yourself now, it may be too much of a shock fpr you. It will be the same shock that just about all non-Traditionalists received when Pope Benenedict stated that* “the old mass was never juridically abrogated, and, in principal, alway permitted”.* Why was that such a shock for the non-Traditionalists? Because that is exactly what the SSPX said all along, yet they were ridiculed for saying it.

Maybe you can explain what “the Mass of Paul VI according to the mind of the Church” means. The Mass that was saved by the SSPX is the one that grew organically from the time of Sts Peter and Paul in Rome; the one that remained virtually unchanged from the time of Pope Gregory the Great in the 600’s, before it was finally canonized by Pope St. Pius V in the 16th century. That’s the Mass that the SSPX saved.
Click to expand...
 
yosupman said:
Ok, lets get something straight…The church has not been promoting or even allowing ambiguity for 45 years. John Paull II was tireless in his teaching and implementing what Vatican II really taught.

The talks are an opportunity for the SSPX to come back to the Church. The Vatican representatives know going into the talks, that they are the ones in full communion with the Chruch. The SSPX is not in full communion.

We all know what was taught at Vatican II was completely orthodox. The talks are an opportunity for the SSPX to understand how what was taught is orthodox.

So don’t say the SSPX is doing a service to the church was making the magisterium clarify badly stated teachings. These talks are completely a chance for the SSPX to come back home.

Also the SSPX did not rescue the mass. Understand the mass of Paul VI according to the mind of the church.

Thanks,

Yosupman
Click to expand...
oh! please stop the arguments and listen to those who sees what really happened. there is ambiguity and confusion. everyone knows. even the holy father recognized this.

we must fight together and not against each other for the sake of the Church. we should want the Traditionals to come back is soon as possible as a sign of hope to the Church.

the Church is in a spiral of destruction if i may say this. there is no unity and no uniformity within the Church. everyone is doing whatever one pleases. we should stop the denial and confess to God that we are in real trouble here. i see people in the Church all happy and clapping and singing birthday as if God doesnt even exist anymore. we simply decided to take over His house and do as we please. while so many Catholics are out there being persecuted, i hear no mention about them and ever hear a priest say let’s pray to our brothers and sisters being persecuted, instead they live pretending that the whole whole is great and everything is fine. given people false view of the world.

Peace.
 
Continued…

forgive my harsh words. but i feel that the lack of leadership and fear of leardership has invaded the Church. so much so, that no longer there is punishment for those who do wrong in the Church it is all accepted. it seems like this new so called evangelization worked against us Catholic. many Catholic Churches became protestanzided. i hear priest say: it doesnt matter what church you go to. everyone can be saved, all one have to do is to be good. i hear priest say that VII ordered the music of the Church to be modern. in my Parish the priests always mention articles written by protestants what i never hear is teachings from the Fathers and Saints of the Church. apparently to them these Saints are no longer relevants to us today.

the scandals continue. organization receiving money from the CC to support organizations that are contrary to our faith. and what is done about it? i read the article: it says that they must clean up their act before the collection. what kind of response is this? we have been deceived by these organizations and what happens to them? nothing.

they give money to these people, but when it comes to build a beautifull House for our Lord, i hear things like there is no money for that. we have been blinded because of our sins against God. we have put ourselves before God. and we are being judged.

there was confusion then, and there is confusion today. i have not seen much change in this part of the world. the new CC are being built without kneelers and no one is saying anything. what does this tell us? that something is going on and is meant to destroy the Catholic Faith.

Peace.
 
I don’t think that a “reunion” is going to happen. I think that the lifting of the excommunication is about as great as anyone can hope for. The fact that the Holy Father has brought back the Latin/Tridintine Mass is not going to be enough for the SSPX to accept full submission to Rome.

What about ecumenism? Universal Salvation? These are serious disagreements which the SSPX has with the church. Who will be the one to give in?
 
marci said:
I don’t think that a “reunion” is going to happen. I think that the lifting of the excommunication is about as great as anyone can hope for. The fact that the Holy Father has brought back the Latin/Tridintine Mass is not going to be enough for the SSPX to accept full submission to Rome.
Click to expand...
Very similar to the Anglican situation, I don’t think there will be a blanket submission. Perhaps only one or two SSPX bishops will submit but that’s a whole lot better than the situation today. Bishop Williamson has pretty much eliminated any chance of all of SSPX being accepted in full communion.
 
I appreciate what you’ve been posting. I don’t harbor any ill will torwards Ultima Ratio. The point of my posts, is to challenge, not create ill will.

The Society of St. Pius X may be in the “fold” of the church, but they certainly are in an objective state of sin. The priests are excercising ministry without the approval of the church. It is the Society that has to come back into full communion with the church and accept even the “non-infallible” teachings of Vatican II with assent of intellect and will.

Oh, here I go again.

Uggg.
 
srp643 said:
Actually, I think they will be sitting as they’re typing I told you so
Click to expand...
I am aware of what they are saying. I am also aware of what the Church has taught, and explanations which have been given since the SSPX started questioning things. I am also aware of what JP2 and B16 have had to say concerning the documents themselves, and questions the SSPX have raised.

The documents are not going to be overruled, re-written, withdrawn, or modified. The answers will be given; whether the SSPX accepts the answers given remains to be seen.

I am also aware that segments who identify themselves as members of the Church have misquoted, mistranslated, distorted, and simply ignored the documents of Vatican 2, and that some people are not able to tell who is who, or what is offical and what is non-official (as opposed to unofficial) commentary.

Les bon temps roule!
 
srp643 said:
Actually, I think they will be sitting as they’re typing I told you so
Click to expand...
And you know this exactly how? Why is it so many are preditcting outcomes and reversals that reveal more knowledge of the future and theology than the Holy Father Himself has revealed?

Let us end this useless fortune-telling and simply wait.
 
pnewton is correct; this discussion is nothing more than “hot-air” and a waste of space. We all have our opinions and no one will change mine.
 
pnewton said:
And you know this exactly how? Why is it so many are preditcting outcomes and reversals that reveal more knowledge of the future and theology than the Holy Father Himself has revealed?

Let us end this useless fortune-telling and simply wait.
Click to expand...
What we do know, is what the truth is. We have an authority in the official magisterium for 40 years that has throughly explained Vatican II. We have a great gift in the catechism of the Catholic church.

What we can’t predict, is how the SSPX will react. God never forced anybody’s will.

So you are right in putting an end to the speculation.
 
Ok, what I meant by “We do know that the truth is”, is that we have the truth as taught by the magisterium of the church. Vatican II taught the truth, the catechism teaches the truth.

So yes, God is truth, and he gave us his truth in the Deposit of Faith intrusted to the church.

So that’s what I mean when I say…“We do know the truth”.

So not only God knows the truth about Revelation. He has revealed his truth to us.

We can look at the talks between the SSPX’ers and the Vatican from the light of truth.

Again, it’s the SSPX’er that are going to have to see the light. Not the magisterium.

The SSPX’ers are not the magisterium. Only the magisterium is the magisterium.
 
I really don’t see any “doctrinal issues” which are different. Vatican II did not change any Church doctrine.
 
Let us also not forget to pray for these meetings and for unity, healing and reconcilliation. But most importantly, let us pray that God will use this time and use the SSPX as a blessing to the Church as a whole.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top