Did Abraham and Ishmael build the Ka'aba?

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Did Abraham and Ishmael build the Ka’aba?

All the websites I checked out offer only one proof; the Qur’an:

2:127] And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.

Of course this claim is fantastic on many levels, including the fact that it would pre-date the building of the Temple of Solomon in by 500-1000 years. In other words, the Ka’aba would be one of the oldest man made structures still standing . I wonder why the ancient historian Herodotus made no mention of this ‘wonder of the world’?

Can anyone provide evidence (other than the Qur’an) that the Ka’aba was built by Abraham and Ishmael?

Thanks. 🙂
 
‘There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. They are descended from Ishmael, [who] was born to Abraham of Agar, and for this reason they are called both Agarenes and Ishmaelites. They are also called Saracens, which is derived from Sarras kenoi, or destitute of Sara, because of what Agar said to the angel: ‘Sara hath sent me away destitute.’ These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. . . [They] accuse us of being idolaters, because we venerate the Cross, which they abominate. And we answer them: ‘How is it, then, that you rub yourselves against a stone in your Ka’ba and kiss and embrace it?’ Then some of them say that Abraham had relations with Agar upon it, but others say that he tied the camel to it, when he was going to sacrifice Isaac. And we answer them: ‘Since Scripture says that the mountain was wooded and had trees from which Abraham cut wood for the holocaust and laid it upon Isaac, and then he left the asses behind with the two young men, why talk nonsense? For in that place neither is it thick with trees nor is there passage for asses.’ And they are embarrassed; but they still assert that the stone is Abraham’s. Then we say: ‘Let it be Abraham’s, as you so foolishly say. Then, just because Abraham had relations with a woman on it or tied a camel to it, you are not ashamed to kiss it, yet you blame us for venerating the Cross of Christ by which the power of the demons and the deceit of the Devil was destroyed.’ This stone that they talk about is a head of that Aphrodite whom they used to worship and whom they called Khabar. Even to the present day, traces of the carving are visible on it to careful observers.’

St. John of Damascus, Father and Doctor of the Church (c. 676 – 749 A.D.)

St. John of the Damascus was born into a prominent Arab Christian family known as Mansour. He served for a time as a high official of the Umayyad caliphs, before leaving to become a monk.
 
no they didn’t ; the ka’aba was rebuilt several times and the last time mohammed helped to put the last stone on. Of course it was on an old site. By the way look at the pictures of where the black rocks are and tell me its not a giant Vagina which ties in with the fact that it was considered by most non muslim scholars to have been the site of ancient fertility rites to a female deity. I would post a picture but the moderators would ban me for posting porn 😃
 
Barbkw said:
🤷

Also, according to Islam (founded 550 years after Jesus’ Resurrection) Abraham sacrificed Ishmael, not Isaac.

islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/MusTrad/sacrifice.html

Becomes very difficult to find common ground.
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This one is the biggest issue imo. If you asked a Muslim they will brush it off to say that in anycase it doesn’t really matter;but they will insist that it was Ishmael. They will also might readily admit the Quran is not clear on who it was. Except for some Muslims (is that many Muslims?) who can’t read Arabic and insist it mentioned that it was Ishmael.

Catholics and Christians will be ready to accept the divine scriptures on Abraham’s sacrifice given to us by our Jewish brethren; despite the fact that Jews/Christianity disagree on the Messiah aspects of who Jesus is. But Isaac is the fact. The Promise.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
This one is the biggest issue imo. If you asked a Muslim they will brush it off to say that in anycase it doesn’t really matter;but they will insist that it was Ishmael. They will also might readily admit the Quran is not clear on who it was. Except for some Muslims (is that many Muslims?) who can’t read Arabic and insist it mentioned that it was Ishmael.

Catholics and Christians will be ready to accept the divine scriptures on Abraham’s sacrifice given to us by our Jewish brethren; despite the fact that Jews/Christianity disagree on the Messiah aspects of who Jesus is. But Isaac is the fact. The Promise.

MJ
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It is mentioned “shine only son Isaac.” Shouldn’t it be “shine only son Ishmael,” when Ishmael was thirteen years old and Isaac had not even been born yet !

When Isaac was born, Abraham had two sons.
 
campeador said:
Did Abraham and Ishmael build the Ka’aba?

All the websites I checked out offer only one proof; the Qur’an:

2:127] And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.

Of course this claim is fantastic on many levels, including the fact that it would pre-date the building of the Temple of Solomon in by 500-1000 years. In other words, the Ka’aba would be one of the oldest man made structures still standing . ** I wonder why the ancient historian Herodotus** made no mention of this ‘wonder of the world’?
Can anyone provide evidence (other than the Qur’an) that the Ka’aba was built by Abraham and Ishmael?

Thanks. 🙂
Click to expand...
Edward Gibbon writes about the Ka’bah and its existence before the Christian era in his book:

… of blind mythology of barbarians - of the local deities, of the stars, the air, and the earth, of their sex or titles, their attributes or subordination. Each tribe, each family, each independent warrier, created and changed the rites and the object of this fantastic worship; but the nation, in every age, has bowed to the religion as well as to the language of Mecca. The genuine antiquity of Caaba ascends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red sea the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad.[1]

Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica, a book describing various parts of the discovered world. The following lines are the English translation of Greek quoted by Gibbon from the book of Diodorus Siculus (Diodorus of Sicily) describing the ‘temple’ considered to be the the holiest in the whole of Arabia.

And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians.[2]

It is interesting to know that Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria, mathematician and astronomer, flourishing about a century after Pliny, undertook to make an atlas of the habitable world. He was not a descriptive geographer, and his book was intended to be no more than a commentary on his maps. He enumerated some hundred and fourteen cities or villages in Arabia Felix.

For example, Dumaetha, placed by Ptolemy just outside the northern boundary of Arabia Felix, must be the mediaeval Arabian Daumet, which is today the chief village of the great oasis of Jauf. Hejr, famous in the “times of ignorance” as the seat of a kingdom, and now Medayin Salih, is Ptolemy’s Egra. His Thaim is Teima, now known for its inscriptions to have had temples and some sort of civilization as far back as 500 BC. It is the Tema of Job. In Lathrippa, placed inland from Iambia (Yambo), we recognize the Iathrippa of Stephan of Byzantium, the Yathrib of the early Arab traditions, now honoured as El Medina, the City of Cities.[3]

Apart from this a place called Macoraba is also shown which is identified as Mecca (please refer to the map facing page 17 of reference [3]). G E von Grunebaum says:

Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary.[4]
 
elwill said:
It is mentioned “shine only son Isaac.” Shouldn’t it be “shine only son Ishmael,” when Ishmael was thirteen years old and Isaac had not even been born yet !

When Isaac was born, Abraham had two sons.
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Look at it this way.

The word Only has several meanings. The actual word used was “Yachid”.

Read about David and Bersheba and you will see similar thing ie Solomon was called “Only” son but he had 3 other brothers.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Look at it this way.

The word Only has several meanings. The actual word used was “Yachid”.

Read about David and Bersheba and you will see similar thing ie Solomon was called “Only” son but he had 3 other brothers.

MJ
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i know nothing about hebrew , but i searched about the meaning of the actual word and it was

only, only one, solitary

strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/3173.htm

beside , God several times refers to Abraham’s son as his “only son.” God says “Take now your son, your only son, Isaac.” (Genesis 22:2). God says, “You have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.” (Genesis 22:12).
as if God want to emphasize the great sacrifice which abrahm did by his only son ,
 
elwill said:
Edward Gibbon writes about the Ka’bah and its existence before the Christian era in his book:

… of blind mythology of barbarians - of the local deities, of the stars, the air, and the earth, of their sex or titles, their attributes or subordination. Each tribe, each family, each independent warrier, created and changed the rites and the object of this fantastic worship; but the nation, in every age, has bowed to the religion as well as to the language of Mecca. The genuine antiquity of Caaba ascends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red sea the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad.[1]

Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica, a book describing various parts of the discovered world. The following lines are the English translation of Greek quoted by Gibbon from the book of Diodorus Siculus (Diodorus of Sicily) describing the ‘temple’ considered to be the the holiest in the whole of Arabia.

And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians.[2]

It is interesting to know that Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria, mathematician and astronomer, flourishing about a century after Pliny, undertook to make an atlas of the habitable world. He was not a descriptive geographer, and his book was intended to be no more than a commentary on his maps. He enumerated some hundred and fourteen cities or villages in Arabia Felix.

For example, Dumaetha, placed by Ptolemy just outside the northern boundary of Arabia Felix, must be the mediaeval Arabian Daumet, which is today the chief village of the great oasis of Jauf. Hejr, famous in the “times of ignorance” as the seat of a kingdom, and now Medayin Salih, is Ptolemy’s Egra. His Thaim is Teima, now known for its inscriptions to have had temples and some sort of civilization as far back as 500 BC. It is the Tema of Job. In Lathrippa, placed inland from Iambia (Yambo), we recognize the Iathrippa of Stephan of Byzantium, the Yathrib of the early Arab traditions, now honoured as El Medina, the City of Cities.[3]

Apart from this a place called Macoraba is also shown which is identified as Mecca (please refer to the map facing page 17 of reference [3]). G E von Grunebaum says:

Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary.[4]
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information.

Do you have any scientific studies or expert analysis you can quote or link as to the age of the Kaaba?

Thanks. 🙂
 
Secular history in no way supports the Qur’an’s claim that the Ka’aba was ever a Arabic house of worship before Mohammad. Let alone in Abrahams time. One only need study secular History.

Masjid Al-Aqsa is a similar example. It was built by the Umayyads at the end of the 7th century, many years after the death of the Prophet and hence even the staunchest of sectarians are forced to admit that it cannot be “al-masjid al-aqsa” mentioned in al-qur’aan.

From archeological evidence, we have many examples of approximate stone cubes whose height is larger than the other dimensions (like the so-called Kaaba) bearing the name Dhu Al-Shaara and not the alleged name Kaaba. This confirms that, like the other stone cubes found elsewhere, the black stone cube in what is presently called Mecca was named Dhu Al-Shaara and not Kaaba.

The name was changed from Dhu Al-Shaara to Kaaba to match the common noun “kaaba” (base) in al-qur’aan. This way, the pagan practice of spinning seven times could be resumed while pretending to be following al-qur’aan.

The fact is that we know from archeological evidence that the Nabataeans celebrated the festival of the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara. We have manuscripts of letters written by Epiphanius the bishop of Salamis, Cyprus in the 4th century AD describing cults with mother-gods such as the Egyptian, Greek, and Nabataean cults.

It is interesting that he described the birth celebrations of Dhu Al-Shaara as culminating with circumambulation seven times around the inner sanctuary of the pagan temple. For example please see: Langdon, S., Semitic Mythology, The Mythology of All Races, Vol. V. Boston: Archaeological Institute of America, Marshall Jones Company, 1931.

God Bless, GT
 
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