Did Abraham go to sacrifice Isaac or Ishmael?

[Catholic_Dude]

I have come across a few references in here that Muslims believe Abraham did NOT go to sacrifice Isaac, but rather Ishmael.

Is this true?

If it is then we have a clear problem before us because the historical/Scriptural testimony of BOTH Jews and Christians is that it was Isaac.

 

[De_Maria]

I have come across a few references in here that Muslims believe Abraham did NOT go to sacrifice Isaac, but rather Ishmael.

Is this true?

If it is then we have a clear problem before us because the historical/Scriptural testimony of BOTH Jews and Christians is that it was Isaac.

The Bible is clear that it was Isaac.
Genesis 22 1 *After these things, God tempted Abraham, and said to him: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. *2 He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for an holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee…

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[swariffin]

And the Quran says it was Ishmael. Well, the Arabian agree that Ishmael is the Father of the Arabian. So, they don’t want to associate Hagar which is Ishmael mother, was a woman servant of Abraham. Logically makes sense for them saying so. Who wants to admit that his/her ancestor was a servant anyway? But, it does twisted the proof from the earlier manuscript which came thousands of years prior to the Quran (the book of Genesis, I mean).

 

[ralphinal]

Islam: Ishmael

Everyone Else: Isaac

Here is a major issue. To me, it may be bigger than any other. If Isaac was not a part of the Covenant, then Isreal holds no special place to God. Why did God save them from Egypt? Why would God send them a Messiah? Isaac was special to Abraham, that much is clear in the Bible. God also promised that Isaac was the one through whom His promise to Abraham would be fulfilled. Yes, Ishmael was a party to it, but not the main part.

One of the reasons that Muslims claim this, other then the Koran, is that a couple of Jewish converts to Islam swore to the Muslim leaders that it was a well known forgery and alteration in Genesis. Come on. I am quite sure there was no coersion in that confession.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Islam: Ishmael

Everyone Else: Isaac

Here is a major issue. To me, it may be bigger than any other. If Isaac was not a part of the Covenant, then Israel holds no special place to God. Why did God save them from Egypt? Why would God send them a Messiah? Isaac was special to Abraham, that much is clear in the Bible. God also promised that Isaac was the one through whom His promise to Abraham would be fulfilled. Yes, Ishmael was a party to it, but not the main part.

One of the reasons that Muslims claim this, other then the Koran, is that a couple of Jewish converts to Islam swore to the Muslim leaders that it was a well known forgery and alteration in Genesis. Come on. I am quite sure there was no coersion in that confession.

That is a VERY good point. This issue is decisive, one of our books is wrong and thus uninspired by definition.

I am so happy that you pointed out the ramifications here. The fact that the Old Testament is founded on the fact Israel is the chosen race from which the Messiah would come, Israel is the race from which the Prophets came and talked about, saved from Egypt, given the promise land, etc.
That cant just be explained away as a forgery or else the OT falls flat because Ishmael is hardly ever talked about outside of Genesis.

On top of all this I dont think Ishamel has a parallel historical record, did they get rescued from an equivalent to egypt, did they receive oracles from God and Prophets and Scriptures?

 

[marlo]

The name ishmael does not exist in the Quran, In fact, they point back to genesis to find out that Ismael is the name of the Son of Abraham. its quite confusing that the name isaac is found in the Quran but not Ishmael, it seems that Mohammad revelation is incomplete here

That is a VERY good point. This issue is decisive, one of our books is wrong and thus uninspired by definition.

I am so happy that you pointed out the ramifications here. The fact that the Old Testament is founded on the fact Israel is the chosen race from which the Messiah would come, Israel is the race from which the Prophets came and talked about, saved from Egypt, given the promise land, etc.
That cant just be explained away as a forgery or else the OT falls flat because Ishmael is hardly ever talked about outside of Genesis.

On top of all this I dont think Ishamel has a parallel historical record, did they get rescued from an equivalent to egypt, did they receive oracles from God and Prophets and Scriptures?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I have come across a few references in here that Muslims believe Abraham did NOT go to sacrifice Isaac, but rather Ishmael.

Is this true?

If it is then we have a clear problem before us because the historical/Scriptural testimony of BOTH Jews and Christians is that it was Isaac.

I’ve read an English translation of the Quran and found no reference to Abraham (pbuh) being asked by Allah to sacrifice Ishmael (pbuh). The Old Testament does a good job of showing how unjust Abraham’s treatment of Ishmael and his mother was, and how this created animosity between the Jewish people and the descendants of the Arabs.

 

[paarsurrey]

The name ishmael does not exist in the Quran,

Hi

Ishmael or Ismael is mentioned in Quran in about 12 places, I just give one for you:

[19:55] And relate the story of **Ishmael **as mentioned in the Book. He was indeed true to his promises. And he was a Messenger, a Prophet.
[19:56] He used to enjoin Prayer and alms-giving on his people, and he was well pleasing to his Lord.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=19&verse=50

I think according to Bible the first-born was to be sacrificed ( We Muslims don’t believe that human sacrifice was ever permitted by GodAllahYHWH in any religion, those who believe that they believe in superstition only.), and the first-born was Ishmael:
Genesis 16:15-16
15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name **Ishmael **to the son she had borne. 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.

I think it is easy to understand that the first-born is who is born first in time and that was Ishmael, for sure.

I don’t mind if you differ with me, that is the free will.

Thanks

 

[hopelessrom_grl]

And the Quran says it was Ishmael. Well, the Arabian agree that Ishmael is the Father of the Arabian. So, they don’t want to associate Hagar which is Ishmael mother, was a woman servant of Abraham. Logically makes sense for them saying so. Who wants to admit that his/her ancestor was a servant anyway? But, it does twisted the proof from the earlier manuscript which came thousands of years prior to the Quran (the book of Genesis, I mean).

not really…the Quran didn’t actually name the child.but Muslims guess it as Ishmeal

 

[inJESUS]

The Quran does not even mention the name of the son to be sacrificed.The Quran is incomplete in many details found only in the Bible.There is only one reference in all the Quran that relates this incident and it begins with Abraham making this request:

“O my Lord, grant me a righteous (son)!” So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear. Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said, “O my son, I see in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice. Now see what is thy view!” (The son) said, “O my father, do as thou art commanded. Thou will find me if Allah so wills one practicing patience and constancy!” So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah) and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice), We called out to him, “O Abraham, thou hast already fulfilled the vision!” Thus indeed do we reward those who do right. For this was obviously a trial – and We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice. – Surat-us Saffat (37):99-107

the passage indicates that this was the boy whose birth was foretold as “good news.” If one searches the whole Quran, he will find nothing mentioned about the birth of Ishmael or about the identity of his mother or his sons. Yet we read this about Isaac and his mother Sarah:

They said, “Fear not,” and they gave him **glad tidings of a son **endowed with knowledge. But his wife came forward (laughing) aloud! She smote her forehead and said, "A barren old woman! " They said, “Even so has thy Lord spoken: and He is full of wisdom and knowledge.”

Then we read a summary of Abraham and Isaac which comes right after the Quranic passage dealing with the sacfifice:

Peace and salutation to Abraham! Thus indeed do we reward those who do right. For he was one of Our believing Servants. And We gave him **the good news of Isaac **- a prophet - one of the righteous. We blessed him and Isaac. – Surat-us Saffat (37):109-113

Notice the sentences “and they gave him glad tidings of a son” and “We gave him the good news of Isaac.” No such wording can be found for the birth of Ishmael in the Quran.

The belief that it was Ismael stems from tradition even though it is not unanimous about it.The early Muslim commentators who believe that it was Ishmael include al-Zamkhshari, al-Baidhawi, al-Tabari and Ibn al-Athir. This tradition was often used: "Umar b. Abd-Al-Aizi **asked a Jew **converted to Islam about the difference of opinion and he answered: “The ‘dhabhi’ is Ismail; the Jews know this also, but they are jealous of you, they say it was Ishak.” (Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam, p.175) .

How could they be jealous if this was written long time before Islam, in Jewish AND Christian scriptures is beyond me.

On the other hand, Al-Thalabi expressly emphasises the Ashab **(companions)** and Tabiun (successors of the companions), from Umar Al-Khattab to Kab Al-Ahbar, believe that the person sacrificed was Isaac.

 

[hamba2han]

The covenant was first made with Abraham and Ishmael;

Genesis 17:10 "This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised."

Genesis 17:13 "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."

It was really Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be sacrificed and the Jewish scribes because of vanity, switched the names;

Genesis 16:16 "and Abram [is] a son of eighty and six years in Hagar’s bearing Ishmael to Abram."

Who’s son? Abraham’s “son”. Now as far as the sacrifice is concerned, Genesis 17:24 "Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin."

That makes Abraham’s son Ishmael 13, how old is Isaac at this time? Genesis 21:5 "Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him."

That means during the circumcision/sacrifice, Abraham’s only “begotten” son is Ishmael and not Isaac as the Bible says.

KJV Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,"

Therefore we see that Isaac was not the only son, as a matter of fact, Isaac was not even born yet and Abraham’s Only begotten son was Ishmael when the covenant was firsr made.

 

[ralphinal]

Please read on, dear friends.

15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

17Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Oh no, Isaac was to be the one through which the convenant was carried.

20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

Again, Ishmael would be the father of a Nation, but Isaac and his line would be the convenant.

If you stop too soon, you miss it.

 

[hamba2han]

This is the relevant verse from the Qur’an:

Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: “O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!” (The son) said: “O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!” … Al-Qur’an, 037.102

And so, we see that the son who’s life was to be sacrificed was old enough to work and also to speak words of support and reassurance to his father who was commanded by God to kill him.

If we are to accept the relevant verses from the Bible as was pointed out in my previous post, does this indicate that the one who was to be sacrificed to be still an infant OR a 13 year old boy?

 

[inJESUS]

the Jewish scribes because of vanity, switched the names;

when? and which Jews? before Jesus came? because Jesus nowhere says what you say but confirms God’s words. So when was it?

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named”. Hebrews 11.17-18.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? James 2.21

there is a double testimony in the Bible, both from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures that the son to be sacrificed was Isaac, when there is no testimony in the Quran that it was Ishmael.

the companions of muhammad who believed it was Isaac did not have your conspiracy theory in mind.

If Allah is the author of the Quran who likes to correct the “corruptness” of Jews and Christians, surely he must have known that it was taught in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures that it was Isaac. Surely he would have corrected the error with a statement in the Quran that it was Ishmael yet the vagueness in the Quran regarding the identity of the son is inexplicable.

furthermore, the Quran has no reference to Hajar whatsoever, let alone by name!!. it speaks plainly of Isaac’s mother as the wife of Abraham, the only wife of Abraham to whom there is any reference. Why?
no one reading the Quran without reference to any other work could possibly guess that there was another woman in Abraham’s life.

And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Scripture, and we granted him his reward in this life: and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous. Surah 29.27

is this said as well about Ishmael? the Quran ITSELF stresses Isaac by calling him the child of promise, by mentioning his mother, and by placing the Prophethood and the Scripture, into his line, when Ishmael receives none of this in the Quran.The son to be sacrificed is not named, yet Isaac is promptly named twice in the immediately succeeding verses.

 

[inJESUS]

It was SARAH, not God, who asked Abraham to sleep with Hajar her maid. So it is not about age but about the fact that Sarah is his wife and he slept with Hajar UPON SARAH REQUEST, NOT GOD.

 

[Valke2]

This is the relevant verse from the Qur’an:

Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: “O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!” (The son) said: “O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!” … Al-Qur’an, 037.102

And so, we see that the son who’s life was to be sacrificed was old enough to work and also to speak words of support and reassurance to his father who was commanded by God to kill him.

If we are to accept the relevant verses from the Bible as was pointed out in my previous post, does this indicate that the one who was to be sacrificed to be still an infant OR a 13 year old boy?

Isaac is not an infant when the binding occurs. He is at least grown enough to carry wood up the mountain. Jews generally believe Isaac was in his 30s when this happened.

 

[iamrefreshed]

It was really Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be sacrificed and the Jewish scribes because of vanity, switched the names;

.

I don’t even know what to write!

 

[Catholic_Dude]

when? and which Jews? before Jesus came? because Jesus nowhere says what you say but confirms God’s words. So when was it?

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named”. Hebrews 11.17-18.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? James 2.21

there is a double testimony in the Bible, both from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures that the son to be sacrificed was Isaac, when there is no testimony in the Quran that it was Ishmael.

the companions of muhammad who believed it was Isaac did not have your conspiracy theory in mind.

If Allah is the author of the Quran who likes to correct the “corruptness” of Jews and Christians, surely he must have known that it was taught in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures that it was Isaac. Surely he would have corrected the error with a statement in the Quran that it was Ishmael yet the vagueness in the Quran regarding the identity of the son is inexplicable.

furthermore, the Quran has no reference to Hajar whatsoever, let alone by name!!. it speaks plainly of Isaac’s mother as the wife of Abraham, the only wife of Abraham to whom there is any reference. Why?
no one reading the Quran without reference to any other work could possibly guess that there was another woman in Abraham’s life.

And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Scripture, and we granted him his reward in this life: and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous. Surah 29.27

is this said as well about Ishmael? the Quran ITSELF stresses Isaac by calling him the child of promise, by mentioning his mother, and by placing the Prophethood and the Scripture, into his line, when Ishmael receives none of this in the Quran.The son to be sacrificed is not named, yet Isaac is promptly named twice in the immediately succeeding verses.

Thank you and others for clearing this up, from what you have pointed out the Quaran does not say it was Ishmael at all.

Wow, so his birth and mother are not even mentioned yet they put so much emphasis on his life? Clearly the Scritptures, Prophets and Messiah come through the Jews.

hamba2han how can you defend such a view when at most it is speculation?

 

[Valke2]

^ Appraisals for Isaac: Qur’an 6:84, Qur’an 12:6, Qur’an 19:50, Qur’an 21:72-73, Qur’an 37:113, Qur’an 38:45-47 - Isaac prophecy: Qur’an 2:133, Qur’an 2:136, Qur’an 2:140, Qur’an 3:84, Qur’an 4:163, Qur’an 6:84, Qur’an 12:6, Qur’an 19:49, Qur’an 21:73, Qur’an 37:112

 

[inJESUS]

I don’t even know what to write!

corruption mantra…unbelievable isnt it?

in my oponion it was some Muslims’ vanity that lead them to teach this error when their honest brothers had no problem saying correctly that it was Isaac without accusing the world of conspiracy theories.