Did Abraham go to sacrifice Isaac or Ishmael?

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Again, this is a test of faith. And as such, it makes the covenant that much more meaningful.
Also, as someone else pointed out, you can say the same about the promise for Ishmael, so this argument falls flat.
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**Ishmael was 14 years old when he was blessed and told to Abraham as blessed. Initially, he was only a promised son, and seed of abraham. After the incident of sacifice of Ishmael, Allah was pleased with Abraham and promised to give him another son Issac who would live to have children and be a prophet. At that time Ishmael was also blessed, not at birth. Please see the difference.

Any sensible man will see that God telling Abraham about his son will live long to have children then telling him to sacrifice that son, is wrong. Even any sensible man will not do such a thing, God will never do that.

The bible has been adjusted and readjusted so haphazardly that it carries so many after thoughts. But still the problems in it remained. And the special case of blessings for only one family and denial of any blessings to the other family made the god of the children of Jacob a biased god of their own family. Not the god of all humanity. What could explain such a bad idea.**
 
planten said:
**Ishmael was 14 years old when he was blessed and told to Abraham as blessed. Initially, he was only a promised son, and seed of abraham. After the incident of sacifice of Ishmael, Allah was pleased with Abraham and promised to give him another son Issac who would live to have children and be a prophet. At that time Ishmael was also blessed, not at birth. Please see the difference.

Any sensible man will see that God telling Abraham about his son will live long to have children then telling him to sacrifice that son, is wrong. Even any sensible man will not do such a thing, God will never do that.

The bible has been adjusted and readjusted so haphazardly that it carries so many after thoughts. But still the problems in it remained. And the special case of blessings for only one family and denial of any blessings to the other family made the god of the children of Jacob a biased god of their own family. Not the god of all humanity. What could explain such a bad idea.**
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Ishmael isn’t even mentioned in that Chapter of the Quran, only Isaac is.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Ishmael isn’t even mentioned in that Chapter of the Quran, only Isaac is.
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Yes, correct. Ishmael is not mentioned there by name. But there are two good news of the birth there, First one is for ISHMAEL (without name) and the second one is for Issac by name.
 
planten said:
Yes, correct. Ishmael is not mentioned there by name. But there are two good news of the birth there, First one is for ISHMAEL (without name) and the second one is for Issac by name.
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Here in proper order we see from the Quran a gentle son Isaac, and from the Bible a wild mocking man Ishmael. Since the Quran never mentions Ishmael in 37 the only sound conclusion is that the Quran agrees with Genesis.

And if Ishmael is fulfilled in Islam, Muslims are certainly wild fighting people, and right now the whole world is focused against them, with every man’s hand against him and his against them. And they are dwelling among their brothers the Jews.

*Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Quran 37:101 So We gave him tidings of a gentle son.

Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

Genesis 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Quran 37:102 And when (his son) was old enough to walk with him, (Abraham) said: O my dear son, I have seen in a dream that I must sacrifice thee. So look, what thinkest thou? He said: O my father! Do that which thou art commanded. Allah willing, thou shalt find me of the steadfast.

Quran 37:112-113 And we gave him tidings of the birth of Isaac, a prophet of the righteous. And We blessed him and Isaac. And of their seed are some who do good, and some who plainly wrong themselves.*
 
In response to a post by meedo, inJesus replied:
hello Meedo,
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actually Jews do celebrate it:
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As the Day of Remembrance, **Rosh Hashanah ** (Jewish Holy day) recalls the story of Isaac’s near-sacrifice, which Jewish tradition states occurred on the first of Tishri. In this biblical account, God commanded Isaac’s father, Abraham, to sacrifice his only son as an offering. Abraham accepts God’s command, builds an altar, and prepares to sacrifice his son to prove his obedience and faith in God. At the very last minute, an angel conveying God’s wishes stopped Abraham from killing Isaac, and pointed out a ram caught by its horns in a nearby bush. The angel told Abraham to sacrifice the ram in place of Isaac – Abraham had passed God’s test.
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As a result, God blessed Abraham. This story is recalled on Rosh Hashanah to remind Jews that submission before God is the way to attain God’s mercy, and the truly righteous do not question God’s will. They do as God commands and are rewarded for their faith.
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.they do.
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logically, historically, Biblically, it is Isaac.
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Hello inJesus:

Would you please explain how Rosh Hashanah related to "the story of Isaac’s near-sacrifice, which Jewish tradition states occurred on the first of Tishri. In this biblical account, God commanded Isaac’s father, Abraham, to sacrifice his only son as an offering. " ?

Thank you.
 
Also, is there any learned Jew here who can tell us what Rosh Hashanah is all about?
 
That’s a broad question. I’m sure you know it marks the new year on the Jewish Calendar. It is also part of the ‘Days of Awe’ as is Yom Kippur. Between these two dates (10 days) we are to examine every deed – good and especially bad – that we have done in the preceeding year. It is a time for an ethical and religious assessment/reassessment of our life. On the flip side, we believe that our fate for the upcoming year is sealed by God on Yom Kippur. And that we can mitigate the harshness of any decree through good deads, prayer and charity.
 
As far as the binding of Isaac and The Days of Awe, perhaps one such connection is the fact that the harshness of God’s decree (sacrificing Isaac) was mitigated by Abraham’s good deed of obeying God’s will. Or even Isaac’s deed of submitting without protest.
 
Valke2 said:
That’s a broad question. I’m sure you know it marks the new year on the Jewish Calendar. It is also part of the ‘Days of Awe’ as is Yom Kippur. Between these two dates (10 days) we are to examine every deed – good and especially bad – that we have done in the preceeding year. It is a time for an ethical and religious assessment/reassessment of our life. On the flip side, we believe that our fate for the upcoming year is sealed by God on Yom Kippur. And that we can mitigate the harshness of any decree through good deads, prayer and charity.
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My question is: as per Judaism/Jewish theology/Jesish scriptures, what ‘Rosh Hoshannah’ has to do with “the story of Isaac’s near-sacrifice”, as inJESUS is linking with?

If ‘Rosh Hoshannah’ is linked with “the story of Isaac’s near-sacrifice”, then would you please qoute Jewish Scriptures/Jewish authentic source.

I need to know how and from where inJESUS (who seems to me a Christian) got this idea? Is inJESUS an authority on Jewish theology?

Thank you.
 
karens1234 said:
I need to know how and from where inJESUS (who seems to me a Christian) got this idea? Is inJESUS an authority on Jewish theology?
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obviously i took it from Jewish sites. Here is one:

roshhashanah.torah.org/learning/yomtov/roshhashanah/survival2.html

Question: If you don’t have a shofar, will a trumpet or some other instrument suffice?

Answer: No. Our sages teach us that it is specifically a ram’s horn that must be used. The ram’s horn is an allusion to the binding of Isaac that took place on Rosh Hashanah, when a ram eventually replaced Isaac on the altar.
 
Valke2 said:
As far as the binding of Isaac and The Days of Awe, perhaps one such connection is the fact that the harshness of God’s decree (sacrificing Isaac) was mitigated by Abraham’s good deed of obeying God’s will. Or even Isaac’s deed of submitting without protest.
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Would you please present proof of your claim from Jewish Scriptures/Jewish theology?

As far your saying “Isaac’s deed of submitting without protest”; again, in the OT, did Abraham before “sacrificing” him tell Isaac, what he was going to do with him, so that it can be deduced that Isaac did submit to God’s Will without protest? Please show us evidence from the OT.

Thanks
 
inJESUS said:
obviously i took it from Jewish sites. Here is one:

roshhashanah.torah.org/learning/yomtov/roshhashanah/survival2.html

Question: If you don’t have a shofar, will a trumpet or some other instrument suffice?

Answer: No. Our sages teach us that it is specifically a ram’s horn that must be used. The ram’s horn is an allusion to the binding of Isaac that took place on Rosh Hashanah, when a ram eventually replaced Isaac on the altar.
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Who are “Our sages”? Please qoute their sayings with evidence from Jewish theology that Rosh Hoshanah is indeed a remembrance of Isaac’s "sacrifice"and not a festival of Jewish New Year/or Day of Awe.
 
karens1234 said:
Who are “Our sages”? Please qoute their sayings with evidence from Jewish theology that Rosh Hoshanah is indeed a remembrance of Isaac’s "sacrifice"and not a festival of Jewish New Year/or Day of Awe.
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my purpose was to say that Rosh Hashana is linked to Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac because some claimed that the Jews do not celebrate it.

Rosh Hashanah Torah Readings: Day Two

On the second day, we read Beresheet (Genesis) XXII. This Torah portion tells of the Aqedah where Abraham almost sacrificed his son Isaac. The sounding of the shofar is connected with the ram sacrificed instead of Isaac. The haftara for the second day of Rosh Hashanah is Jeremiah 31:1-19. This portion mentions God’s remembrance of His People. On Rosh Hashanah we need to mention God’s remembrances, thus this portion fits the day.
judaism.about.com/od/roshhashana/a/shana_prayer.htm

If you need any further info, please ask Jews or google Rosh Hashana Isaac
 
inJESUS said:
Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, ‘Father?’ ‘Yes, my son?’ Abraham replied. ‘The fire and wood are here,’ Isaac said, ‘but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?’ Abraham answered, 'God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering
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karens1234 said:
inJESUS;3113100:
inJESUS:

Here you are taling about a specific 'The Lamb" and linking it with the NT’s “the Lamb of God” (John 1:29), and at the same time the same Jewish site you used to soehow “link” Rosh Hoshanah with “Isaac’s near-sacrifice”, promotes the following Jewish view about their disblief in Jesus:
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my observation about the lamb is from a Christian point of view, not related to the links i provides.

the Jewish site is used regarding Abraham and Isaac and Rosh Hashana.
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inJESUS said:
karens1234;3189095:
my observation about the lamb is from a Christian point of view, not related to the links i provides.

the Jewish site is used regarding Abraham and Isaac and Rosh Hashana.
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You mean Jews do not believe in what you really believe? Why?

As the Jewish site (that you cite as an evidence to prove a Jewish View) promotes disbelief in Jesus (“The Lamb” of NT), as such Jews don’t even believe in Jesus, then despite their such an extant of disbelif in your Trinitarian G-d, are they (Jews) saved or go to the Hell?
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karens1234 said:
My question is: as per Judaism/Jewish theology/Jesish scriptures, what ‘Rosh Hoshannah’ has to do with “the story of Isaac’s near-sacrifice”, as inJESUS is linking with?

If ‘Rosh Hoshannah’ is linked with “the story of Isaac’s near-sacrifice”, then would you please qoute Jewish Scriptures/Jewish authentic source.

I need to know how and from where inJESUS (who seems to me a Christian) got this idea? Is inJESUS an authority on Jewish theology?

Thank you.
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I believe he was referring to the fact that the story of the binding of Isaac is read during Rosh Hoshanah
 
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