Did Adam and Eve know of the concept of good and evil before eating the forbidden fruit?

[Benadam]

While in a state of Original Innocense Adam and Eve didn’t judge the circumstances they found themselves in from moment to moment. After disobeying God’s commandment their condition, being the result of their sin, for the first time was judged.

IMO their faculties shifted and truth was revealed to them through the lower faculties after the fall. The lower faculties became the source of information that required the higher faculties to judge. Act could no longer obey the will immediately but had to follow judgement where’as before the fall act was free to follow the will.

 

[fhansen]

While in a state of Original Innocense Adam and Eve didn’t judge the circumstances they found themselves in from moment to moment. After disobeying God’s commandment their condition, being the result of their sin, for the first time was judged.

IMO their faculties shifted and truth was revealed to them through the lower faculties after the fall. The lower faculties became the source of information that required the higher faculties to judge. Act could no longer obey the will immediately but had to follow judgement where’as before the fall act was free to follow the will.

What would be the difference between the the will and the ability of the higher faculties to make a judgment?

 

[Benadam]

What would be the difference between the the will and the ability of the higher faculties to make a judgment?

I’m not sure what you are asking.

Adam and Eve willed evil. They knew it was evil untill persuaded otherwise. The will is no longer free because of this. Perhaps the word liberty is more precise than the word free here.

That they covered their loins demonstrates the lower informing the higher faculties. Their bodies informed them of their new condition and the higher faxculties judged that information and they experienced shame for the first time. The lower faculties revealed their spiritual condition to them. It informs them that their relationship with the natural world has changed. Formerly a function of the higher faculties. That God’s presence compells them to hide their entire selves reveals the heirarchy of revelation.

The powers of nature that once served are hostile and something to fear after the fall. The body including emotions, move involuntarilly and because the higher faculties are informed by the lower on spiritual matters it becomes clouded.

I think that kinda sorta answers what you were asking.

 

[fhansen]

I’m not sure what you are asking.

Adam and Eve willed evil. They knew it was evil untill persuaded otherwise. The will is no longer free because of this. Perhaps the word liberty is more precise than the word free here.

That they covered their loins demonstrates the lower informing the higher faculties. Their bodies informed them of their new condition and the higher faxculties judged that information and they experienced shame for the first time. The lower faculties revealed their spiritual condition to them. It informs them that their relationship with the natural world has changed. Formerly a function of the higher faculties. That God’s presence compells them to hide their entire selves reveals the heirarchy of revelation.

The powers of nature that once served are hostile and something to fear after the fall. The body including emotions, move involuntarilly and because the higher faculties are informed by the lower on spiritual matters it becomes clouded.

I think that kinda sorta answers what you were asking.

I think I understand your post better now. I believe Catholic teaching is that our wills were compromised or weakened by the fall but not rendered altogether corrupted. The lower appetites or “the flesh” vie with our spirit for control of the will and only the grace of God and our cooperation with it can lift us up and get everything restored to its proper order again.

I’m not sure if I understand the idea of our judgment, as a result of the loss of innocence, now being situated between our will and every act. That could be the case but Adam & Eves’ original sin, itself, would seem to have required a judgment, wouldn’t it? On the other hand, that idea could mesh with man’s having “stolen” the right to determine right and wrong for himself and God allowing that condition to continue through this life.

 

[Benadam]

I’m not sure if I understand the idea of our judgment, as a result of the loss of innocence, now being situated between our will and every act. That could be the case but Adam & Eves’ original sin, itself, would seem to have required a judgment, wouldn’t it?

Well, judgement wasn’t a function of our faculties at all before the fall. But when it was it had to function between our sources of information and the powers to act I think.

I believe in their Original Innocence there was no need for the higher faculties to distinguish good from bad. The lower faculties apprehended earthly reality the higher faculties apprehended spiritual reality and integrated the two realities into the one whole reality imo. I think the original purpose of the higher faculties was to keep us walking with God. To see God’s hand in all things.

The innocent heart is unable to see evil so it doesn’t judge it’s circumstances or condition. The one time something wasn’t good it was God who revealed it. It wasn’t good for Adam to be alone. I think Adam suffered loneliness butr in his innocence he wasn’t a victim to it. You ever see an infant with a stuffed head and snot running down it’s nose but happy as a lark unaware that what it feels would have an adult needing a wambulance? The baby doesn’t know evil, it isn’t judgeing it’s experience,in it’s innocence it isn’t victimized. I think that characterizes how Adam and Eve didn’t know evil.

 

[jcrichton]

And if they didn’t, is it fair for them to be punished for an act whose moral value they didn’t understand? True, God told them not to eat from the tree. But without the knowledge of good and evil, their free choice to disobey God was morally neutral for them, similar to, dare I say it, picking the red or blue crayon.

Hi, Bubuy!

…though you’ve gotten several excellent replies… the issue is self evident: before the fall Adam and Eve did not recognize their nakedness as anything but a natural state of being (much as a toddler would remove his/her clothing and freely enjoy life); once the fall happened, their first reaction was to cover themselves and their second was to hide from Yahweh God, as they did not want to make a wrong impression…

Moral ambiguity does not come into play (unless we are seeking to make Yahweh God an unfair and unjust Creator) since the issue put forth was not their “ignorance or awareness of evil” but their adherance to the Word of God.

It was a simple Command (…you may it fruit from any… but not from the tree of good/knowledge and evil… you will die.); so simple that Eve recited it to the serpent; they choce to disobey the Creator as the words of the creature was found more appealing.

Judgment did not come to Adam and Eve because they gained knowledge; judgment came because they chose to disobey Yahweh’s Command!

Maran atha!

Angel