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Did anyone in Christendom, from 33 AD to 1000 AD, believe the holy bible to be the Christians only authority?
- Status
A
amber_lux
Guest
I know. This was one of those books I picked up and read in half an hour, eventually deciding against buying it.
I mentioned that work, becuae I knew it was fantasy, but the story line is superficially similar.
jonathon
J
joe370
Guest
B
Big_Dummy
Guest
Here are a few proof texts I found online for us to chew on,
Clement of Alexandria
For we may not give our adhesion to men on a bare statement by them, who might equally state the opposite. But if it is not enough merely to state the opinion, but if what is stated must be confirmed, we do not wait for the testimony of men, but we establish the matter that is in question by the voice of the Lord, which is the surest of all demonstrations, or rather is the only demonstration; in which knowledge those who have merely tasted the Scriptures are believers…
ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-69.htm#P9717_2735027
Lactantius
And since he did not do this, being carried away by his distinguished knowledge of the sacred writings, so that he was content with those things alone in which faith consists, I have undertaken, with the favour of God, to do this, and at the same time to prepare the way for the imitation of others.
–Lactantius, The Divine Institutes 5.4
ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf07-08.htm#P1724_691511
Athanasius
The knowledge of our religion and of the truth of things is independently manifest rather than in need of human teachers, for almost day by day it asserts itself by facts, and manifests itself brighter than the sun by the doctrine of Christ. Still, as you nevertheless desire to hear about it, Macarius, come let us as we may be able set forth a few points of the faith of Christ: able though you are to find it out from the divine oracles, but yet generously desiring to hear from others as well. For although the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth, while there are other works of our blessed teachers compiled for this purpose…
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-04/Npnf2-04-12.htm#P1570_526894
Vainly then do they run about with the pretext that they have demanded Councils for the faith’s sake; for divine Scripture is sufficient above all things; but if a Council be needed on the point, there are the proceedings of the Fathers, for the Nicene Bishops did not neglect this matter, but stated the doctrine so exactly, that persons reading their words honestly, cannot but be reminded by them of the religion towards Christ announced in divine Scripture.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-04/Npnf2-04-64.htm#P7323_2907659
These are fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness. Let no man add to these, neither let him take ought from these. For concerning these the Lord put to shame the Sadducees, and said, ‘Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures.’ And He reproved the Jews, saying, ‘Search the Scriptures, for these are they that testify of Me.’
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-04/Npnf2-04-93.htm#P9700_3475833
Cyril of Jerusalem
Have thou ever in thy mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-07/Npnf2-07-09.htm#P452_92480
So for the present listen while I simply say the Creed, and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents. For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which ye now receive, and write them on the table of your heart.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-07/Npnf2-07-10.htm#P645_149614
[Notice how he interprets 2 Thessalonians 2:15. To him, tradition as found in the creeds is simply the teaching of the Old and New Testaments.]
And first let us inquire for what cause Jesus came down. Now mind not my argumentations, for perhaps thou mayest be misled but unless thou receive testimony of the Prophets on each matter, believe not what I say: unless thou learn from the Holy Scriptures concerning the Virgin, and the place, the time, and the manner, receive not testimony from man.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-07/Npnf2-07-17.htm#P1417_386333
Clement of Alexandria
For we may not give our adhesion to men on a bare statement by them, who might equally state the opposite. But if it is not enough merely to state the opinion, but if what is stated must be confirmed, we do not wait for the testimony of men, but we establish the matter that is in question by the voice of the Lord, which is the surest of all demonstrations, or rather is the only demonstration; in which knowledge those who have merely tasted the Scriptures are believers…
Code:
-Clement of Alexandria, The Stromata 7.16Lactantius
And since he did not do this, being carried away by his distinguished knowledge of the sacred writings, so that he was content with those things alone in which faith consists, I have undertaken, with the favour of God, to do this, and at the same time to prepare the way for the imitation of others.
–Lactantius, The Divine Institutes 5.4
ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf07-08.htm#P1724_691511
Athanasius
The knowledge of our religion and of the truth of things is independently manifest rather than in need of human teachers, for almost day by day it asserts itself by facts, and manifests itself brighter than the sun by the doctrine of Christ. Still, as you nevertheless desire to hear about it, Macarius, come let us as we may be able set forth a few points of the faith of Christ: able though you are to find it out from the divine oracles, but yet generously desiring to hear from others as well. For although the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth, while there are other works of our blessed teachers compiled for this purpose…
Code:
-Athanasius, Against the Heathen 1.1Vainly then do they run about with the pretext that they have demanded Councils for the faith’s sake; for divine Scripture is sufficient above all things; but if a Council be needed on the point, there are the proceedings of the Fathers, for the Nicene Bishops did not neglect this matter, but stated the doctrine so exactly, that persons reading their words honestly, cannot but be reminded by them of the religion towards Christ announced in divine Scripture.
Code:
-Athanasius, De Synodis 1.6These are fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness. Let no man add to these, neither let him take ought from these. For concerning these the Lord put to shame the Sadducees, and said, ‘Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures.’ And He reproved the Jews, saying, ‘Search the Scriptures, for these are they that testify of Me.’
Code:
-Athanasius, Letters of Athanasius, Festal Letters, Letter 39Cyril of Jerusalem
Have thou ever in thy mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.
Code:
-Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures 4.17So for the present listen while I simply say the Creed, and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents. For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which ye now receive, and write them on the table of your heart.
Code:
-Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures 5.12[Notice how he interprets 2 Thessalonians 2:15. To him, tradition as found in the creeds is simply the teaching of the Old and New Testaments.]
And first let us inquire for what cause Jesus came down. Now mind not my argumentations, for perhaps thou mayest be misled but unless thou receive testimony of the Prophets on each matter, believe not what I say: unless thou learn from the Holy Scriptures concerning the Virgin, and the place, the time, and the manner, receive not testimony from man.
Code:
-Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures 12.5
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Big_Dummy
Guest
Basil of Caesarea
Enjoying as you do the consolation of the Holy Scriptures, you stand in need neither of my assistance nor of that of anybody else to help you comprehend your duty. You have the all-sufficient counsel and guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you to what is right.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-08/Npnf2-08-301.htm#P6114_1915781
John Chrysostom
Great is the profit of the divine Scriptures, and all-sufficient is the aid which comes from them…For the divine oracles are a treasury of all manner of medicines, so that whether it be needful to quench pride, to lull desire to sleep, to tread under foot the love of money, to despise pain, to inspire confidence, to gain patience, from them one may find abundant resource.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-14/npnf1-14-41.htm#P1928_653876
Tarry not, I entreat, for another to teach thee; thou hast the oracles of God. No man teacheth thee as they; for he indeed oft grudgeth much for vainglory’s sake and envy. Hearken, I entreat you, all ye that are careful for this life, and procure books that will be medicines for the soul. If ye will not any other, yet get you at least the New Testament, the Apostolic Epistles, the Acts, the Gospels, for your constant teachers.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-13/npnf1-13-58.htm#P2178_1458414
Augustine
On such terms we might amuse ourselves without fear of offending each other in the field of Scripture, but I might well wonder if the amusement was not at my expense. For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-01/npnf1-01-23.htm#P4121_1692734
Better far that I should read with certainty and persuasion of its truth the Holy Scripture, placed on the highest (even the heavenly) pinnacle of authority, and should, without questioning the trustworthiness of its statements, learn from it that men have been either, commended, or corrected, or condemned, than that, through fear of believing that by men, who, though of most praiseworthy excellence, were no more than men, actions deserving rebuke might sometimes be done, I should admit suspicions affecting the trustworthiness of the whole “oracles of God.”
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-01/npnf1-01-23.htm#P4121_1692734
This Mediator, having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the Scripture which is called canonical, which has paramount authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-02/npnf1-02-17.htm#P1779_1021077
“Many false Christs and false prophets shall arise, and shall do many signs and wonders, that they may deceive, if it were possible, the very elect: behold, I have told you before.” This shows that the established authority of Scripture must outweigh every other; for it derives new confirmation from the progress of events which happen, as Scripture proves, in fulfillment of the predictions made so long before their occurrence.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-04/npnf1-04-26.htm#P1515_814855
Now that all Faustus’ calumnies have been refuted, those at least on the subjects here treated of at large and explained fully as the Lord has enabled me, I close with a word of counsel to you who are implicated in those shocking and damnable errors, that, if you acknowledge the supreme authority of Scripture, you should recognise that authority which from the time of Christ Himself, through the ministry of His apostles, and through a regular succession of bishops in the seats of the apostles, has been preserved to our own day throughout the whole world, with a reputation known to all.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-04/npnf1-04-46.htm#P2536_1533579
Enjoying as you do the consolation of the Holy Scriptures, you stand in need neither of my assistance nor of that of anybody else to help you comprehend your duty. You have the all-sufficient counsel and guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you to what is right.
Code:
-Basil, Letters of Basil, Letter CCLXXXIIIJohn Chrysostom
Great is the profit of the divine Scriptures, and all-sufficient is the aid which comes from them…For the divine oracles are a treasury of all manner of medicines, so that whether it be needful to quench pride, to lull desire to sleep, to tread under foot the love of money, to despise pain, to inspire confidence, to gain patience, from them one may find abundant resource.
Code:
-Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of John, Homily 37.1Tarry not, I entreat, for another to teach thee; thou hast the oracles of God. No man teacheth thee as they; for he indeed oft grudgeth much for vainglory’s sake and envy. Hearken, I entreat you, all ye that are careful for this life, and procure books that will be medicines for the soul. If ye will not any other, yet get you at least the New Testament, the Apostolic Epistles, the Acts, the Gospels, for your constant teachers.
Code:
-Chrysostom, Homilies on Colossians, Homily 9Augustine
On such terms we might amuse ourselves without fear of offending each other in the field of Scripture, but I might well wonder if the amusement was not at my expense. For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error.
Code:
-Augustine, Letters of St. Augustine, Letter 82.1.3Better far that I should read with certainty and persuasion of its truth the Holy Scripture, placed on the highest (even the heavenly) pinnacle of authority, and should, without questioning the trustworthiness of its statements, learn from it that men have been either, commended, or corrected, or condemned, than that, through fear of believing that by men, who, though of most praiseworthy excellence, were no more than men, actions deserving rebuke might sometimes be done, I should admit suspicions affecting the trustworthiness of the whole “oracles of God.”
Code:
-Augustine, Letters of St. Augustine, Letter 82.2.5This Mediator, having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the Scripture which is called canonical, which has paramount authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves.
Code:
-Augustine, City of God 11.3“Many false Christs and false prophets shall arise, and shall do many signs and wonders, that they may deceive, if it were possible, the very elect: behold, I have told you before.” This shows that the established authority of Scripture must outweigh every other; for it derives new confirmation from the progress of events which happen, as Scripture proves, in fulfillment of the predictions made so long before their occurrence.
Code:
-Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichaean 13.5Now that all Faustus’ calumnies have been refuted, those at least on the subjects here treated of at large and explained fully as the Lord has enabled me, I close with a word of counsel to you who are implicated in those shocking and damnable errors, that, if you acknowledge the supreme authority of Scripture, you should recognise that authority which from the time of Christ Himself, through the ministry of His apostles, and through a regular succession of bishops in the seats of the apostles, has been preserved to our own day throughout the whole world, with a reputation known to all.
Code:
-Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichaean 23.9
B
Big_Dummy
Guest
Now that all Faustus’ calumnies have been refuted, those at least on the subjects here treated of at large and explained fully as the Lord has enabled me, I close with a word of counsel to you who are implicated in those shocking and damnable errors, that, if you acknowledge the supreme authority of Scripture, you should recognise that authority which from the time of Christ Himself, through the ministry of His apostles, and through a regular succession of bishops in the seats of the apostles, has been preserved to our own day throughout the whole world, with a reputation known to all.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-04/npnf1-04-46.htm#P2536_1533579
But who can fail to be aware that the sacred canon of Scripture, both of the Old and New Testament, is confined within its own limits, and that it stands so absolutely in a superior position to all later letters of the bishops, that about it we can hold no manner of doubt or disputation whether what is confessedly contained in it is right and true; but that all the letters of bishops which have been written, or are being written, since the closing of the canon, are liable to be refuted if there be anything contained in them which strays from the truth, either by the discourse of some one who happens to be wiser in the matter than themselves, or by the weightier authority and more learned experience of other bishops, by the authority of Councils; and further, that the Councils themselves, which are held in the several districts and provinces, must yield, beyond all possibility of doubt, to the authority of plenary Councils which are formed for the whole Christian world; and that even of the plenary Councils, the earlier are often corrected by those which follow them, when, by some actual experiment, things are brought to light which were before concealed, and that is known which previously lay hid, and this without any whirlwind of sacrilegious pride, without any puffing of the neck through arrogance, without any strife of envious hatred, simply with holy humility, catholic peace, and Christian charity?
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-04/npnf1-04-53.htm#P3163_1843900
Especially as in writings of such authors I feel myself free to use my own judgment (owing unhesitating assent to nothing but the canonical Scriptures), whilst in fact there is not a passage which he has quoted from the works of this anonymous author that disturbs me.
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-05/npnf1-05-16.htm#P1888_814447
For what is so much an adversary to those who wish to sin as the commandment of God, i.e. His law and divine Scripture, which has been given us for this life, that it may be with us in the way, which we must not contradict, lest it deliver us to the judge, but which we ought to submit to quickly? For no one knows when he may depart out of this life. Now, who is it that submits to divine Scripture, save he who reads or hears it piously, deferring to it as of supreme authority…
ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-06/npnf1-06-07.htm#P355_90813
Code:
-Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichaean 23.9But who can fail to be aware that the sacred canon of Scripture, both of the Old and New Testament, is confined within its own limits, and that it stands so absolutely in a superior position to all later letters of the bishops, that about it we can hold no manner of doubt or disputation whether what is confessedly contained in it is right and true; but that all the letters of bishops which have been written, or are being written, since the closing of the canon, are liable to be refuted if there be anything contained in them which strays from the truth, either by the discourse of some one who happens to be wiser in the matter than themselves, or by the weightier authority and more learned experience of other bishops, by the authority of Councils; and further, that the Councils themselves, which are held in the several districts and provinces, must yield, beyond all possibility of doubt, to the authority of plenary Councils which are formed for the whole Christian world; and that even of the plenary Councils, the earlier are often corrected by those which follow them, when, by some actual experiment, things are brought to light which were before concealed, and that is known which previously lay hid, and this without any whirlwind of sacrilegious pride, without any puffing of the neck through arrogance, without any strife of envious hatred, simply with holy humility, catholic peace, and Christian charity?
Code:
-Augustine, On Baptism, Against the Donatists 2.3Especially as in writings of such authors I feel myself free to use my own judgment (owing unhesitating assent to nothing but the canonical Scriptures), whilst in fact there is not a passage which he has quoted from the works of this anonymous author that disturbs me.
Code:
-Augustine, On Nature and Grace, Against Pelagius, ch.71For what is so much an adversary to those who wish to sin as the commandment of God, i.e. His law and divine Scripture, which has been given us for this life, that it may be with us in the way, which we must not contradict, lest it deliver us to the judge, but which we ought to submit to quickly? For no one knows when he may depart out of this life. Now, who is it that submits to divine Scripture, save he who reads or hears it piously, deferring to it as of supreme authority…
Code:
-Augustine, Our Lord’s Sermon on the Mount 1.11.32
B
Big_Dummy
Guest
more for us to deal with from online,
“We know that the Scriptures are perfect, as being spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit” (Irenaeus c. A.D. 120-c. 203, Lib. II c.47).
“We have received the disposition of our salvation by no others, but those by whom the Gospel came to us; which they then preached, and afterwards by God’s will delivered to us in the Scriptures, to be the pillar and ground of our faith” (Irenaeus, Lib. III. c. 1).
“Let the shop of Hermogenes prove that what it advances is written; or if it be not written, let it fear the malediction uttered against those who dare to add or to retrench.” (Tertullian c. 160-240, adv. Hermogenes ).
“There is one God, whom we do not otherwise acknowledge, brethren, but out of the Sacred scriptures. For as he, who would profess the wisdom of this world, cannot otherwise attain it, unless he read the doctrines of the philosophers; so whosoever will exercise piety towards God, can learn it nowhere but from the Holy Scriptures” (Hippolytus c. 170-c. 235, adv. Noetum, c. IX).
“Instead of asking what Holy Scripture says, they strain every nerve to find a syllogistic figure to bolster up their godlessness. If anyone challenges them with a text from Divine Scripture, they examine it to see whether it can be turned into a conjunctive or disjunctive syllogistic figure. They put aside the sacred word of God, and devote themselves to geometry—earth measurement—because they are from the earth and speak from the earth, and do not know the One who comes from above. When people avail themselves of the arts of unbelievers to lend colour to their heretical views, and with godless rascality corrupt the simple Faith of Holy Scripture, it is obvious that they are nowhere near the Faith” (Eusebius c. 260-c. 340).
“In the two testaments every word that pertaineth unto God may be sought and discussed, and out of them all knowledge of things may be understood. And if anything remains which Holy Scripture does not determine, no other third scripture ought to be received to authorize any knowledge, but we must ‘commit to the fire’ what remains, that is, reserve it unto God” (Origen c. 185-c. 254, Hom. in Lev.).
“And with simple-minded trust in God, we accepted the conclusions to be drawn from the proofs and teachings of Holy Writ” (Eusebius, in The History of the Church, quoting Dionysius c. 200- c. 265, Bishop of Alexandria).
“The Holy and Divinely inspired writings are sufficient of themselves alone to make known the truth” (Athanasius 296-373, Orat. Contr. Gent. Tom. I).
“In the Holy Scriptures alone is the instruction of religion announced—to which let no man add, from which let no man detract—which are sufficient in themselves for the enunciation of the truth” (Athanasius, adv. Gentes init.).
“Do not believe me simply, unless you receive the proof of what I say from Holy Scripture” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Catech. A.D. 348).
“Concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the faith, even the most casual remark ought not to be delivered without the sacred Scriptures” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Catech. IV.12).
“It is evidently a falling away from the faith, and a proof of great presumption, to neglect any part of what is written, or to introduce anything that is not written” (Basil c. 329-379, Bishop of Caesarea, de Vera Fide ).
“How can we use those things, which we find not in the Scriptures” (Ambrose c. 339-397, Offic. Lib.1,c.23).
“… to receive the opinions of others, when we have a rule by which we can examine everything? I mean the Divine law. It is for this reason that I conjure you all, without resting in the slightest degree on the judgment of others, to consult the Scriptures” (John Chrysostom c. 347-407, Homil. xiii. in 2 Cor.).
“It is from ignorance of Scripture that all our evils arise; hence the plague of so many heresies, hence our careless lives, our fruitless labours… They err who look not to the bright rays of the divine Scriptures, because they walk in darkness” (John Chrysostom,
Look for no other teacher; thou hast the oracles of God; none teaches thee like these” (John Chrysostom, Homil. IX in Ep. Coloss.).
“When you shall see the wicked heresy, which is the army of Antichrist, standing in the holy places of the church, then let those who are in Judea head for the mountains, that is, those who are Christians should head for the Scriptures. For the true Judea is Christendom, and the mountains are the Scriptures of the prophets and apostles, as it is written: ‘Her foundations are in the Holy Mountains’, but why should all Christians at this time head for the Scriptures? Because in this period in which heresy has taken possession of the churches there can be no proof of true Christianity nor any other refuge for Christians who want to know the truth of the faith except the divine Scriptures. But now there is for those who want to know which is the true church of Christ no way to know it except only through the Scriptures” (Traditionally ascribed to John Chrysostom, glossa ordinaria 49th Homily, on Mat. 24).
“In those things, which are plainly laid down in Scripture, all things are found, which embrace faith and morals” (Augustine, De Doctrina Christiana A.D. 427, Lib. II, c. 9).
“The canon of the Scriptures is perfect, and in itself suffices to the full, and more, for all demands” (Vincent of Lérins, Adversus profanes omnium novitates haereticorum commonitorium A.D. 434).
“The source of error is that when men are hindered by some obscurity in knowing the truth, they run not to prophets, or apostles, or evangelists, but to themselves” (Leo, Ep. xxviii to Flavian 13 June 449 ).
“We know that the Scriptures are perfect, as being spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit” (Irenaeus c. A.D. 120-c. 203, Lib. II c.47).
“We have received the disposition of our salvation by no others, but those by whom the Gospel came to us; which they then preached, and afterwards by God’s will delivered to us in the Scriptures, to be the pillar and ground of our faith” (Irenaeus, Lib. III. c. 1).
“Let the shop of Hermogenes prove that what it advances is written; or if it be not written, let it fear the malediction uttered against those who dare to add or to retrench.” (Tertullian c. 160-240, adv. Hermogenes ).
“There is one God, whom we do not otherwise acknowledge, brethren, but out of the Sacred scriptures. For as he, who would profess the wisdom of this world, cannot otherwise attain it, unless he read the doctrines of the philosophers; so whosoever will exercise piety towards God, can learn it nowhere but from the Holy Scriptures” (Hippolytus c. 170-c. 235, adv. Noetum, c. IX).
“Instead of asking what Holy Scripture says, they strain every nerve to find a syllogistic figure to bolster up their godlessness. If anyone challenges them with a text from Divine Scripture, they examine it to see whether it can be turned into a conjunctive or disjunctive syllogistic figure. They put aside the sacred word of God, and devote themselves to geometry—earth measurement—because they are from the earth and speak from the earth, and do not know the One who comes from above. When people avail themselves of the arts of unbelievers to lend colour to their heretical views, and with godless rascality corrupt the simple Faith of Holy Scripture, it is obvious that they are nowhere near the Faith” (Eusebius c. 260-c. 340).
“In the two testaments every word that pertaineth unto God may be sought and discussed, and out of them all knowledge of things may be understood. And if anything remains which Holy Scripture does not determine, no other third scripture ought to be received to authorize any knowledge, but we must ‘commit to the fire’ what remains, that is, reserve it unto God” (Origen c. 185-c. 254, Hom. in Lev.).
“And with simple-minded trust in God, we accepted the conclusions to be drawn from the proofs and teachings of Holy Writ” (Eusebius, in The History of the Church, quoting Dionysius c. 200- c. 265, Bishop of Alexandria).
“The Holy and Divinely inspired writings are sufficient of themselves alone to make known the truth” (Athanasius 296-373, Orat. Contr. Gent. Tom. I).
“In the Holy Scriptures alone is the instruction of religion announced—to which let no man add, from which let no man detract—which are sufficient in themselves for the enunciation of the truth” (Athanasius, adv. Gentes init.).
“Do not believe me simply, unless you receive the proof of what I say from Holy Scripture” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Catech. A.D. 348).
“Concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the faith, even the most casual remark ought not to be delivered without the sacred Scriptures” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Catech. IV.12).
“It is evidently a falling away from the faith, and a proof of great presumption, to neglect any part of what is written, or to introduce anything that is not written” (Basil c. 329-379, Bishop of Caesarea, de Vera Fide ).
“How can we use those things, which we find not in the Scriptures” (Ambrose c. 339-397, Offic. Lib.1,c.23).
“… to receive the opinions of others, when we have a rule by which we can examine everything? I mean the Divine law. It is for this reason that I conjure you all, without resting in the slightest degree on the judgment of others, to consult the Scriptures” (John Chrysostom c. 347-407, Homil. xiii. in 2 Cor.).
“It is from ignorance of Scripture that all our evils arise; hence the plague of so many heresies, hence our careless lives, our fruitless labours… They err who look not to the bright rays of the divine Scriptures, because they walk in darkness” (John Chrysostom,
Look for no other teacher; thou hast the oracles of God; none teaches thee like these” (John Chrysostom, Homil. IX in Ep. Coloss.).
“When you shall see the wicked heresy, which is the army of Antichrist, standing in the holy places of the church, then let those who are in Judea head for the mountains, that is, those who are Christians should head for the Scriptures. For the true Judea is Christendom, and the mountains are the Scriptures of the prophets and apostles, as it is written: ‘Her foundations are in the Holy Mountains’, but why should all Christians at this time head for the Scriptures? Because in this period in which heresy has taken possession of the churches there can be no proof of true Christianity nor any other refuge for Christians who want to know the truth of the faith except the divine Scriptures. But now there is for those who want to know which is the true church of Christ no way to know it except only through the Scriptures” (Traditionally ascribed to John Chrysostom, glossa ordinaria 49th Homily, on Mat. 24).
“In those things, which are plainly laid down in Scripture, all things are found, which embrace faith and morals” (Augustine, De Doctrina Christiana A.D. 427, Lib. II, c. 9).
“The canon of the Scriptures is perfect, and in itself suffices to the full, and more, for all demands” (Vincent of Lérins, Adversus profanes omnium novitates haereticorum commonitorium A.D. 434).
“The source of error is that when men are hindered by some obscurity in knowing the truth, they run not to prophets, or apostles, or evangelists, but to themselves” (Leo, Ep. xxviii to Flavian 13 June 449 ).
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Big_Dummy
Guest
Thoughts on the Sufficiency of Scripture
What It Does and Doesn’t Mean
desiringgod.org/resource-library/taste-see-articles/thoughts-on-the-sufficiency-of-scripture
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tms.edu%2Ftmsj%2Ftmsj12m.pdf&ei=Eb9rTqrcB4Hq0QHJ37iMBQ&usg=AFQjCNHPIMWFCDeCYY1KQonhLgitq-ZA_g&sig2=ZLUfPKiXSdIc24Q6RrgBtQ
google.com/#q=the+sufficiency+of+scripture&hl=en&rlz=1W1ADBF_en&prmd=imvns&ei=-IdrToLmGYTq0gG54vjVCw&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9661b1a7505f059b&biw=1024&bih=427
I am thinking if we don’t present the proofs of the other side, we can not do a fair job of dealing with them.
What It Does and Doesn’t Mean
desiringgod.org/resource-library/taste-see-articles/thoughts-on-the-sufficiency-of-scripture
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tms.edu%2Ftmsj%2Ftmsj12m.pdf&ei=Eb9rTqrcB4Hq0QHJ37iMBQ&usg=AFQjCNHPIMWFCDeCYY1KQonhLgitq-ZA_g&sig2=ZLUfPKiXSdIc24Q6RrgBtQ
google.com/#q=the+sufficiency+of+scripture&hl=en&rlz=1W1ADBF_en&prmd=imvns&ei=-IdrToLmGYTq0gG54vjVCw&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9661b1a7505f059b&biw=1024&bih=427
I am thinking if we don’t present the proofs of the other side, we can not do a fair job of dealing with them.
J
joe370
Guest
Hey Big Dummy here is a good example that represents the rest of the quotes you provided:
If the individual outside church and tradition then are you really sure about that considering the following quotes from Athanasius?
The same can be said about all the other quotes you provided:
“The confession arrived at Nicaea was, we say, more SUFFICIENT and ENOUGH BY ITSELF, for the subversion of all irreligious heresy, and for the security and furtherance of the doctrine of the Church” Ad Afros 1
“But the WORD OF THE LORD which came THROUGH the Ecumenical Synod at Nicaea, abides forever” Ad Afros 2
“…forcing on the divine oracles a misinterpretation according to their [the heretics] OWN PRIVATE sense” Orat 1,37
“…that He was not before that time, but is wholly man by nature and nothing more. But this is NO sentiment of the CHURCH, but of the Samosatene and of the present Jews…” Orat 1,38
“This then I consider the sense of this passage, and that, a VERY ECCLESIASTICAL sense.” Orat 1,44
“Who heard in his FIRST CATECHISING, that God has a Son and has made all things by His proper Word, BUT understood it in THAT SENSE in which we now mean it? Who on the rise of this odious heresy of the Arians, was not startled at what he heard, as strange” Orat 2,34
“However here too they (Arians) introduce their private fictions, and contend that the Son and the Father are not in such wise ‘one,’ or ‘like,’ as the CHURCH preaches, but as they themselves would have it” Orat 3,10
“If we now consider the OBJECT of that FAITH which we Christians HOLD, and using it as a RULE, apply ourselves, as the Apostle teaches to the reading of inspired Scripture. For Christ’s enemies, being ignorant of this OBJECT, have wandered from the way of truth, and have stumbled on a stone of stumbling, thinking otherwise than they should think” Orat 3,28
“Let us, retaining the GENERAL SCOPE of the faith, acknowledge that what they interpret ill, has a RIGHT interpretation” Orat 3,35
“Had Christ enemies thus dwelt on these thoughts, and recognized the ECCLESIASTICAL SCOPE as an ANCHOR for the faith, they would NOT have made SHIPWRECK of the faith…” Orat 3,58
“We are content with the fact that this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, nor did the Fathers hold this.” Epis 59
“But our faith is right, and starts from the teaching of the Apostles and TRADITION of the FATHERS, being confirmed both by the New Testament and the Old.” Epis 60
“But after him (the devil) and with him are all inventors of unlawful heresies, who indeed refer to the Scriptures, BUT DO NOT hold such opinions as the SAINTS HAVE HANDED DOWN, and receiving them as the traditions of men, err, because they DO NOT rightly KNOW THEM nor their power” Festal Letter 2
“Scarcely, however, did they begin to speak, when they were condemned, and one differed from another; then perceiving the straits in which their heresy lay, they remained dumb, and by their silence confessed the disgrace which came upon their heterodoxy. On this the Bishops, having negatived the terms they had invented, published against them the SOUND and ECCLESIASTICAL faith…And what is strange indeed, Eusebius of Caesarea in Palestine, who had denied the day before, but afterward subscribed, sent to his Church a letter, saying that this was the CHURCH’S faith and the TRADITION of the FATHERS” De Decretis 3
“Are they not then committing a crime in their very thought to gainsay so GREAT and ECUMENICAL a Council?” De Decretis 4
“For, what OUR FATHERS have delivered, THIS IS TRULY DOCTRINE; and this is truly the TOKEN of doctors, to CONFESS THE SAME THING with each other, and to vary NEITHER from themselves nor from their FATHERS…Thus the Greeks, as not witnessing to the SAME doctrines, but quarreling one with another, have no truth of teaching; but the holy and veritable HERALDS OF TRUTH AGREE TOGETHER, and do not differ…preaching the same Word harmoniously” De Decretis 4
Continued…
Are you of the opinion that Athanasius believed that the "Holy and Divinely inspired writings, being sufficient of themselves alone to make known the truth” - were to be interpreted by the church or by each and every individual?
If the individual outside church and tradition then are you really sure about that considering the following quotes from Athanasius?
The same can be said about all the other quotes you provided:
“The confession arrived at Nicaea was, we say, more SUFFICIENT and ENOUGH BY ITSELF, for the subversion of all irreligious heresy, and for the security and furtherance of the doctrine of the Church” Ad Afros 1
“But the WORD OF THE LORD which came THROUGH the Ecumenical Synod at Nicaea, abides forever” Ad Afros 2
“…forcing on the divine oracles a misinterpretation according to their [the heretics] OWN PRIVATE sense” Orat 1,37
“…that He was not before that time, but is wholly man by nature and nothing more. But this is NO sentiment of the CHURCH, but of the Samosatene and of the present Jews…” Orat 1,38
“This then I consider the sense of this passage, and that, a VERY ECCLESIASTICAL sense.” Orat 1,44
“Who heard in his FIRST CATECHISING, that God has a Son and has made all things by His proper Word, BUT understood it in THAT SENSE in which we now mean it? Who on the rise of this odious heresy of the Arians, was not startled at what he heard, as strange” Orat 2,34
“However here too they (Arians) introduce their private fictions, and contend that the Son and the Father are not in such wise ‘one,’ or ‘like,’ as the CHURCH preaches, but as they themselves would have it” Orat 3,10
“If we now consider the OBJECT of that FAITH which we Christians HOLD, and using it as a RULE, apply ourselves, as the Apostle teaches to the reading of inspired Scripture. For Christ’s enemies, being ignorant of this OBJECT, have wandered from the way of truth, and have stumbled on a stone of stumbling, thinking otherwise than they should think” Orat 3,28
“Let us, retaining the GENERAL SCOPE of the faith, acknowledge that what they interpret ill, has a RIGHT interpretation” Orat 3,35
“Had Christ enemies thus dwelt on these thoughts, and recognized the ECCLESIASTICAL SCOPE as an ANCHOR for the faith, they would NOT have made SHIPWRECK of the faith…” Orat 3,58
“We are content with the fact that this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, nor did the Fathers hold this.” Epis 59
“But our faith is right, and starts from the teaching of the Apostles and TRADITION of the FATHERS, being confirmed both by the New Testament and the Old.” Epis 60
“But after him (the devil) and with him are all inventors of unlawful heresies, who indeed refer to the Scriptures, BUT DO NOT hold such opinions as the SAINTS HAVE HANDED DOWN, and receiving them as the traditions of men, err, because they DO NOT rightly KNOW THEM nor their power” Festal Letter 2
“Scarcely, however, did they begin to speak, when they were condemned, and one differed from another; then perceiving the straits in which their heresy lay, they remained dumb, and by their silence confessed the disgrace which came upon their heterodoxy. On this the Bishops, having negatived the terms they had invented, published against them the SOUND and ECCLESIASTICAL faith…And what is strange indeed, Eusebius of Caesarea in Palestine, who had denied the day before, but afterward subscribed, sent to his Church a letter, saying that this was the CHURCH’S faith and the TRADITION of the FATHERS” De Decretis 3
“Are they not then committing a crime in their very thought to gainsay so GREAT and ECUMENICAL a Council?” De Decretis 4
“For, what OUR FATHERS have delivered, THIS IS TRULY DOCTRINE; and this is truly the TOKEN of doctors, to CONFESS THE SAME THING with each other, and to vary NEITHER from themselves nor from their FATHERS…Thus the Greeks, as not witnessing to the SAME doctrines, but quarreling one with another, have no truth of teaching; but the holy and veritable HERALDS OF TRUTH AGREE TOGETHER, and do not differ…preaching the same Word harmoniously” De Decretis 4
Continued…
J
joe370
Guest
Continued Big…
“…and it is seemingly and most irreligious when Scripture contains such images, to form ideas concerning our Lord from others which are neither in Scripture, nor have any religious bearing. THEREFORE let them tell us FROM WHAT TEACHER OR BY WHAT TRADITION they derived these notions concerning the Savior?..But they seem to me to have a wrong understanding of this passage also; for it has a RELIGIOUS and VERY ORTHODOX sense, which had they understood, they would not have blasphemed the Lord of glory” De Decretis 13
“…and in dizziness about TRUTH, are full set upon accusing the COUNCIL, let them tell us what are the Scriptures from what they have learned, or WHO is the SAINT by whom they have BEEN TAUGHT…” De Decretis 18
“MUST needs hold and intend the decisions of the Council, suitably regarding them to signify the relation of the RADIANCE to the LIGHT, and FROM THENCE gaining the illustration TO THE TRUTH” De Decretis 20
“We are PROVING that THIS view has been TRANSMITTED from FATHER to FATHER, but ye, O modern Jews and disciples of Caiaphas, how many FATHERS CAN YE ASSIGN to your phrases? Not one of the understandings and wise; for all abhor you, but the devil alone; none but he is your father in this apostasy, who both in the beginning sowed you with the seed of this IRRELIGION, and now persuades you to slander the ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, for committing to writing, not YOUR doctrines, but that which from the BEGINNING those who were eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word have handed down to us. For the faith which the COUNCIL has confessed in writing, that is the faith of the Catholic Church; to assert this, the BLESSED FATHERS so expressed themselves while condemning the Arian heresy…” De Decretis 27
“…For they dissent from each other, and, whereas they have revolted from THEIR FATHERS, are not of ONE AND THE SAME MIND, but float about with various and discordant changes” De Synodis 13
“For it is right and meet thus to feel, and to maintain a good conscience toward the FATHERS, if we be not spurious children, but have received the TRADITIONS from them, and the LESSONS of religion at their hands” De Synodis 47
“Such then, as we confess and believe, being the SENSE of the FATHERS…” De Synodis 48
“…but do you, remaining on the foundation of the Apostles, and holding fast the TRADITIONS of the FATHERS, pray that now at length all strife and rivalry may cease and the futile questions of the heretics may be condemned…” De Synodis 54
“Of course, the holy Scriptures, divinely inspired are self-sufficient for the proclamation of the truth. But there are also numerous works composed for this purpose by blessed TEACHERS. The ONE WHO READS THEM will UNDERSTAND the INTERPRETATION of the Scriptures AND will be ABLE to GAIN knowledge he desires” C. Gentes 1
“But the sectaries, who have fallen away from the TEACHING of the CHURCH, and made SHIPWRECK concerning the faith” C. Gentes 6
“But that the soul is made immortal is a further point in the CHURCH’S TEACHING which you must know…” C. Gentes 33
“But what is also to the point, let us note that the very TRADITION, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles and PRESERVED by the FATHERS. On THISthe Church was founded; and if anyone departs from THIS, he neither is, nor any longer ought to be called, a Christian.” Ad Serapion 1,28
“…and it is seemingly and most irreligious when Scripture contains such images, to form ideas concerning our Lord from others which are neither in Scripture, nor have any religious bearing. THEREFORE let them tell us FROM WHAT TEACHER OR BY WHAT TRADITION they derived these notions concerning the Savior?..But they seem to me to have a wrong understanding of this passage also; for it has a RELIGIOUS and VERY ORTHODOX sense, which had they understood, they would not have blasphemed the Lord of glory” De Decretis 13
“…and in dizziness about TRUTH, are full set upon accusing the COUNCIL, let them tell us what are the Scriptures from what they have learned, or WHO is the SAINT by whom they have BEEN TAUGHT…” De Decretis 18
“MUST needs hold and intend the decisions of the Council, suitably regarding them to signify the relation of the RADIANCE to the LIGHT, and FROM THENCE gaining the illustration TO THE TRUTH” De Decretis 20
“We are PROVING that THIS view has been TRANSMITTED from FATHER to FATHER, but ye, O modern Jews and disciples of Caiaphas, how many FATHERS CAN YE ASSIGN to your phrases? Not one of the understandings and wise; for all abhor you, but the devil alone; none but he is your father in this apostasy, who both in the beginning sowed you with the seed of this IRRELIGION, and now persuades you to slander the ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, for committing to writing, not YOUR doctrines, but that which from the BEGINNING those who were eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word have handed down to us. For the faith which the COUNCIL has confessed in writing, that is the faith of the Catholic Church; to assert this, the BLESSED FATHERS so expressed themselves while condemning the Arian heresy…” De Decretis 27
“…For they dissent from each other, and, whereas they have revolted from THEIR FATHERS, are not of ONE AND THE SAME MIND, but float about with various and discordant changes” De Synodis 13
“For it is right and meet thus to feel, and to maintain a good conscience toward the FATHERS, if we be not spurious children, but have received the TRADITIONS from them, and the LESSONS of religion at their hands” De Synodis 47
“Such then, as we confess and believe, being the SENSE of the FATHERS…” De Synodis 48
“…but do you, remaining on the foundation of the Apostles, and holding fast the TRADITIONS of the FATHERS, pray that now at length all strife and rivalry may cease and the futile questions of the heretics may be condemned…” De Synodis 54
“Of course, the holy Scriptures, divinely inspired are self-sufficient for the proclamation of the truth. But there are also numerous works composed for this purpose by blessed TEACHERS. The ONE WHO READS THEM will UNDERSTAND the INTERPRETATION of the Scriptures AND will be ABLE to GAIN knowledge he desires” C. Gentes 1
“But the sectaries, who have fallen away from the TEACHING of the CHURCH, and made SHIPWRECK concerning the faith” C. Gentes 6
“But that the soul is made immortal is a further point in the CHURCH’S TEACHING which you must know…” C. Gentes 33
“But what is also to the point, let us note that the very TRADITION, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles and PRESERVED by the FATHERS. On THISthe Church was founded; and if anyone departs from THIS, he neither is, nor any longer ought to be called, a Christian.” Ad Serapion 1,28
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Protector
Guest
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PbloPicasso
Guest
Perhaps another time and another place. But not on this thread.
B
Big_Dummy
Guest
I don’t see how that exposes all those quotes. The only way I see as dealing with them would be to examine each in context. After all, the Fathers were using private judgement when they wrote what they wrote.
P
PbloPicasso
Guest
Now you sound like you’re arguing against yourself.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
It would appear that you are arguing for Sola Scriptura in the ECF and you forget that any private judgement alone was just that. It is the unity of belief, Tradition and the Magesterium that forms the beliefs of the OHCAC. Proving that any ECF performed private interpretation proves that they read Scripture. Their judgement was based on their beliefs within the Paradigm of the OHCAC. I believe that. Beyond that you prove nothing to anyone other than yourself that there is more.
You may want to selectively read the founding fathers of this country early on concerning slavery. Within the paradigm of equal rights for all what does this mean?
Good try.
J
joe370
Guest
But in the end when it was time to resolve differences of opinion, which led to the CC defining things such as Theotokos, the Trinity and the canon of scripture - was it done via private judgment of the Fathers or via the authority of the Catholic Church as a whole?
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Well, you have to admit if we trace the Apostolic teaching through the Montanists, The Paulicians, The Donatists, The Waldensians and the Baptists then there has been Private interpretation that was relied on from the time of the Apostles until now, or maybe I have that wrong?
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pwoodfi
Guest
Just for clarification, it seems some need to be educated here. The Protestant belief of Sola Scriptura is not Solo Scriptura. There is a difference.
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Big_Dummy
Guest
Even “authority of the church” is made up of private judgement of individuals.
B
Big_Dummy
Guest
please explain, th anksJust for clarification, it seems some need to be educated here. The Protestant belief of Sola Scriptura is not Solo Scriptura. There is a difference.
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