Did anyone notice?

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NicPais83

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Yesterday (Nov. 5th), the priests at EWTN used black vestments for their OF Mass. Not only was it beautiful, but that, along with many other ways they celebrate Mass, and the use of the EF serve to show the continuity and connection between both forms of the Mass. They are not separate entities, but two expressions of the same sacrifice.
 
I also noticed that yesterday. It was quite pleasing. I don’t know how long it will be before I see (in the Ordinary Form, at least) black vestments in person.
 
NicPais83 said:
Yesterday (Nov. 5th), the priests at EWTN used black vestments for their OF Mass. Not only was it beautiful, but that, along with many other ways they celebrate Mass, and the use of the EF serve to show the continuity and connection between both forms of the Mass. They are not separate entities, but two expressions of the same sacrifice.
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Black is the proper color for Masses for the dead; in both the Extraordinary and Ordinary form.

The proper colors are black, violet, or white (white is a variation allowed in the US at least). White may also be used at any time if the proper color is unavailable, but that’s just an aside.

Pick up a copy of the most recent OF Sacramentary and in the front pages, look up the liturgical law for vestments. You’ll see for yourself that black is indeed the proper color, and that’s not a mixing of the two forms (not in any illegitimate way); it’s a continuity of the Tradition, just as you’ve said (and thanks for saying it).

There are a lot of Catholics out there who think that black vestments aren’t allowed anymore. Those people have never read the liturgical laws on the matter, or they don’t want anyone else to read them.
 
Can I ask why they wore black on Nov. 5 when the ordo says green?
 
Joannm said:
Can I ask why they wore black on Nov. 5 when the ordo says green?
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Traditionally, weekday Masses in November are Masses for the dead. The proper color for the day is green, but if the priest was specifically saying a “Mass for the dead” then black would be the proper color.

The Ordo was right of course. But it seems that the priest was exercising the option of having a Mass for the dead instead. On most weekdays in Ordinary time, votive Masses or Masses for special needs and ocasions are also permitted, and the proper color for that Mass might be worn.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Black is the proper color for Masses for the dead; in both the Extraordinary and Ordinary form.

The proper colors are black, violet, or white (white is a variation allowed in the US at least). White may also be used at any time if the proper color is unavailable, but that’s just an aside.

Pick up a copy of the most recent OF Sacramentary and in the front pages, look up the liturgical law for vestments. You’ll see for yourself that black is indeed the proper color, and that’s not a mixing of the two forms (not in any illegitimate way); it’s a continuity of the Tradition, just as you’ve said (and thanks for saying it).

There are a lot of Catholics out there who think that black vestments aren’t allowed anymore. Those people have never read the liturgical laws on the matter, or they don’t want anyone else to read them.
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Yes, we were always taught that black is the proper color in Catholic school. My father is a deacon, so I readily had access to documents showing this growing up, also. However, what makes it interesting for me isn’t that black vestments exist at all, but that they were used since I have never seen them used in the OF in my lifetime, even though they are proper for funerals, All Saints, and requiems (I believe that there is only an indult allowing white to be used in these instances). It just is refreshing because it appears we are reaching a point where the OF and the EF can finally be recognized as interconnected, and not separate from each other.
 
NicPais83 said:
Yes, we were always taught that black is the proper color in Catholic school. My father is a deacon, so I readily had access to documents showing this growing up, also. However, what makes it interesting for me isn’t that black vestments exist at all, but that they were used since I have never seen them used in the OF in my lifetime, even though they are proper for funerals, All Saints, and requiems (I believe that there is only an indult allowing white to be used in these instances). It just is refreshing because it appears we are reaching a point where the OF and the EF can finally be recognized as interconnected, and not separate from each other.
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I thought as much. My comments were actually directed to other readers, who might not be so well-informed.

Depending upon where you live, the restoration of black vestments is growing among our newly ordained priests. Yes, it is refreshing.

As for white, there are 2 reasons why it’s permitted. White can be worn at any time (Good Friday might be an exception, I’ve never had reason to check), if the proper color isn’t available, or if there is a large number of concelebrants, or some other good reason. White as an option for funerals isn’t exactly an indult. It’s an adaptation suggested by the US Bishops Conference and approved by the Holy See.
 
Our Priest Wears black vestments:
  1. a LONG black cincture
  2. a small black stole
  3. and a black chasuble w/ purple/gold embroidery (SP)
  4. and a black (gasp) chalice veil
    and our deacon has a black stole, but no dalmatic 😦
    They wore black on All Souls Day, it goes quite well with our cassocks
XC
Patrick
 
I’d bet money that the real reason they wore black on 11/5 was because it was the day after the supposedly most pro-death politician in America was elected President.
 
MusicMan said:
I’d bet money that the real reason they wore black on 11/5 was because it was the day after the supposedly most pro-death politician in America was elected President.
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And I’d bet money that this thread will be moved to the “Politics” forum after that comment. 😉
 
totustuus2345 said:
Our Priest Wears black vestments:
  1. a LONG black cincture
  2. a small black stole
  3. and a black chasuble w/ purple/gold embroidery (SP)
  4. and a black (gasp) chalice veil
    and our deacon has a black stole, but no dalmatic 😦
    They wore black on All Souls Day, it goes quite well with our cassocks
XC
Patrick
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What? No black burse? I am appalled, shocked, scandalized!

I’m writing to the local bishop!
 
FrDavid96 said:
What? No black burse? I am appalled, shocked, scandalized!

I’m writing to the local bishop!
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Is sarcasm necesary? I was only making a comment, Father.

(by the way, our burse tore or something)
 
FrDavid96 said:
For your penance, repair the black burse.

(just kidding!)
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Actually, the only burse, I think, that our church has(had) was an ordinary time green one, now that I think about it, havn’t seen it in a while, we kinda just fold the corporal and put it on the pall, under the veil, I don’t know…

(note to self: ask Msgr. if we still have a burse)

Are they not technically required?
 
theistgal said:
And I’d bet money that this thread will be moved to the “Politics” forum after that comment. 😉
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Despite my remarks about the President-Elect in another forum, I wouldn’t have any issue with them wearing black vestments for that reason.
 
totustuus2345 said:
Actually, the only burse, I think, that our church has(had) was an ordinary time green one, now that I think about it, havn’t seen it in a while, we kinda just fold the corporal and put it on the pall, under the veil, I don’t know…

(note to self: ask Msgr. if we still have a burse)

Are they not technically required?
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We realy should stay on topic. That might be a good topic for a new thread.
 
FrDavid96 said:
I thought as much. My comments were actually directed to other readers, who might not be so well-informed.

Depending upon where you live, the restoration of black vestments is growing among our newly ordained priests. Yes, it is refreshing.

As for white, there are 2 reasons why it’s permitted. White can be worn at any time (Good Friday might be an exception, I’ve never had reason to check), if the proper color isn’t available, or if there is a large number of concelebrants, or some other good reason. White as an option for funerals isn’t exactly an indult. It’s an adaptation suggested by the US Bishops Conference and approved by the Holy See.
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I’m sorry Father. Thank you for you (name removed by moderator)ut. You sound like you’re a real genuine priest, which we all could so desperately use. God bless you and thank you for your services at the Altar.
 
I was an altar boy before Vatican II. My conscience was formed before Vatican II. The last time I saw black used was when my brother and I served for our grandmother’s Requiem Mass in January of 1965. When my great-aunt died in 1973 they used purple. Every other Mass I have attended since then has been white.

I gotta tell y’all that sometimes I feel so old on these forums… I’m 57 (which doesn’t quite feel so old to me). I attend a reverent OF cathedral parish. At my age (given my health conditions and my ancestry) I could go at any time. I am also a product of my time. Black vestments are far more comforting to me. White vestments assume that I died in a State of Grace… That’s a lovely thought but I have a pre-Vatican II conscience - I am a product of Catholic education from 1956 to 1969. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I understand the symbolism of the white vestments. For me, it is presumptive. Black is the color of mourning. Black is the color of repentance. We are not protestants. We are redeemed not saved. We work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Given the option before I die, I would prefer the black vestments of my grandmother’s funeral. I am no saint that I should claim the white vestments. The Requiem Mass and Ash Wednesday when I was a boy back in the 50’s /60’s “Earth to earth; Ashes to ashes; Dust to dust”. When was the last time any of you heard “Remember man that thou art dust and to dust thou shalt return” on Ash Wednesday?
 
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