Did believing OSAS destroy your life?

[distracted]

It did mine…

Well, i can’t blame everything on a belief in osas… but it definitely influenced my life in an adverse way…

When i was very young and uncatechized, i met this person who said that if i have accepted Christ, no matter how terrible the sin i commit, i am still saved (going to Heaven). I believed that because didn’t recall certain Scripture passages that disagreed… and didn’t know my Faith…

I ended up doing things i am still paying for… and will pay for till the day I die and possibly beyond… ( i HAVE done a lot of painful “expiation”… but probably not nearly enough… :banghead: :hypno: )

So… How has osas affected you???

 

[SteveGC]

It made me lazy in my faith. It kept me at a distance from our Lord.

Why?

Zero accountability. That’s why. That’s what OSAS does to a person, especially a young one.

No need for church, no need to pray. I mean…what’s my motivation to do that? If I’m all good…what’s the point?

Nowadays, of course, OSAS’ers have added numerous caveats to their “theology”. They say “well, of course you have to strive to be a good Christian, and follow His commandments”…etc etc.

And nowadays, I say to them…“careful there buddy, you’re startin to sound Catholic”

OSAS probably would’ve destroyed my faith…had it not been for Mother Church.

God Bless

 

[allischalmers]

For a Christian to live a life in continual sin is contrary to what the Bible teaches and incompatible with the Christian lifestyle.
To say that believing OSAS destoried your life because of what you did is just a cop out for not taking the respondsablty for now you lived your life and if I were you I would start to examine myself to see if I was truly in the faith

 

[Callin]

if I were you I would start to examine myself to see if I was truly in the faith

Didn’t distracted make it clear that some sort of examination DID happen? Why do you say “start”?

 

[BrianH]

I went to an OSAS church for…7 years. It was also heavily legalistic and I would not dare have done anything remotely dangerous or such. I do not believe it had a negative influence in any way.

 

[SteveGC]

For a Christian to live a life in continual sin is contrary to what the Bible teaches and incompatible with the Christian lifestyle.

Do you mean Christians are INCAPABLE of continual sin?
Disagree…not biblical by any stretch

Or…Christians SHOULDN’T live in continual sin?
Agree…quite biblical…quite Catholic

To say that believing OSAS destoried your life because of what you did is just a cop out for not taking the respondsablty for now you lived your life and if I were you I would start to examine myself to see if I was truly in the faith

Ok…fair enough. “Destroying” the faith is quite an over-statement. But remember that the OP’s experience with OSAS is specifically in his youth…and an encounter with people who stressed to him that “he is saved…no matter HOW terrible the sin”.

You try that on for size in your rebellious teenage years, and perhaps it’s not so much a cop out.

The point is, to me and I think many others, adding OSAS to your Christian theology is an obstacle to living a holy life…not to mention profoundly erroneous.

God Bless.

 

[BrianH]

I kind of have to go with allischalmers for two reasons. First time for everything All Baptist churches that I know about emphasize leading a godly life.
Two, and most important though, if a person is going to screw up their life because they think they are going to heaven anyway…that speaks more about the person’s discernment and many other factors. Unless someone specifically is telling you to sin, which is not the case, it does sound like a cop out.
I would say so in the other case too. When I was a Baptist, I heard all about how Catholics could sin all they want and go to confession and be fine. IF such a person exists anywhere in the entire world, I would not now seriously entertain the notion that it is their Catholic faith, or twisted version of faith, responsible for their actions but their own personal choices. In other words, yeah, I heard no sin could seperate us from Christ but I never took that to mean do anything.
Education, parenting, social groups, teachers, friends, etc all reinforced or taught values, it was not just the folks at church…isolating one cause for behavior seems overly simplistic.

 

[Zenas]

For a Christian to live a life in continual sin is contrary to what the Bible teaches and incompatible with the Christian lifestyle.
To say that believing OSAS destoried your life because of what you did is just a cop out for not taking the respondsablty for now you lived your life and if I were you I would start to examine myself to see if I was truly in the faith

Here is what Charles Stanley, Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Atlanta and former President of the Southern Baptist Convention, has to say about OSAS:

.“No matter what you do as a child of God, you are forgiven. You say, ‘Murder?’ Forgiven. ‘Stealing?’ Forgiven. ‘Adultery?’ Forgiven. ‘Worshiping idols?’ Forgiven.”

To be sure, Stanley was engaging in hyperbole when he said this, but it indicates the casual attitude with which evangelicals approach sin. And why shouldn’t they? If there are no eternal consequences, why bother? We all want to go to Heaven and once saved, your ticket has been punched.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I kind of have to go with allischalmers for two reasons. First time for everything All Baptist churches that I know about emphasize leading a godly life.
Two, and most important though, if a person is going to screw up their life because they think they are going to heaven anyway…that speaks more about the person’s discernment and many other factors. Unless someone specifically is telling you to sin, which is not the case, it does sound like a cop out.
I would say so in the other case too. When I was a Baptist, I heard all about how Catholics could sin all they want and go to confession and be fine. IF such a person exists anywhere in the entire world, I would not now seriously entertain the notion that it is their Catholic faith, or twisted version of faith, responsible for their actions but their own personal choices. In other words, yeah, I heard no sin could seperate us from Christ but I never took that to mean do anything.
Education, parenting, social groups, teachers, friends, etc all reinforced or taught values, it was not just the folks at church…isolating one cause for behavior seems overly simplistic.

Your point is valid for Baptists, IMO, but not for the reformed churches, who claim that nothing we do matters.

Our destiny is God’s decision and it has already been made.

Our actions on earth are irrelevant as far as they are concerned.

We are either one of the elect or we aren’t.

 

[SteveGC]

I agree with you there.

Not that this was my post anyway, but since I jumped on the anti-OSAS bandwagon …

My main issue is with doctrinal teaching. Yes, you have lazy, minimalist Catholics…yes, you have Baptists like that…yes, many “Christians” are like that. It is unfortunate. But to me, that’s a separate issue. I think it’s best to measure the effect of OSAS in light of Christians who are more responsible and obedient than that.

IF a person strives to really follow their church’s teaching, the very fact that a church promulgates the OSAS idea serves as a negative influence on an otherwise motivated Christian. Why? Because most Christians will lapse in their faith - I think we would all agree to that…the ebbs and flows of all our journeys. The temporarily lapsed Christian who has learned OSAS is more susceptible to remain lapsed, as opposed to a Christian (like a practicing Catholic) who can’t help but be quickly reminded of his need to repent, confess, and regain his path toward holiness.

I guess that’s my argument against OSAS. Not only is it in error, but it eventually leaves more and more Christians falsely secure as they eventually return to sinful tendencies.

All that being said, I still sympathize with the OPs experience with OSAS. He would probably admit (and I think he actually did) that OSAS wasn’t entirely to blame. But factor in his youth at the time, probably minimal catechesis, hormones and temptations, and I see his point. So many teens lapse in their Christianity, no matter what church they follow. I know I did. OSAS does nothing but give them a false “get outta jail free card”. Sure, the principle behind OSAS is the emphasis on Jesus’ one time atonement for our sins, but it takes years for most Christians to really identify with what that means. What it means to most teens is: wow, it really is ok for me to have done this or that. I’m okay.

I’m rambling. I’ll stop.

God Bless.

 

[allischalmers]

Do you mean Christians are INCAPABLE of continual sin?
Disagree…not biblical by any stretch

Sure, Christians are capable of living in continual sin, that is, if they want to live a most miserable live. However the scripture tells us that God will not permit us to be temped beyond what we can bear and He provide us with an avenue of escape.

Or…Christians SHOULDN’T live in continual sin?
Agree…quite biblical…quite Catholic

If a person calls him or herself a Christian but continues to live a sinful lifestyle then there has be the question raised as to weather they are true Christians. The two just are not compable…quite biblical…quite Baptist

 

[allischalmers]

Also let me add that a Christian that realizes that someday they are going to answer to God for every deed we done, every word we have spoken and every bad thought we have had, I do not think that if they believe OSAS (or not) is going to be a determining factor of weather they sin or not/.

 

[fbl9]

OSAS actually takes one into hell. strong statement?yes…why? because those who believe in osas do not repent of their sins.There is simply no need to do so.Unrepented sin closes the gates of heaven…one can not truly beleive in osas as a truth for if they did ,they truly wouldn’t repent of anything they have done.
IMO osas ranks right up there with the idea of double predestination,as truly hellish teachings.

 

[ferdie]

OSAS actually takes one into hell. strong statement?yes…why? because those who believe in osas do not repent of their sins.There is simply no need to do so.Unrepented sin closes the gates of heaven…one can not truly beleive in osas as a truth for if they did ,they truly wouldn’t repent of anything they have done.
IMO osas ranks right up there with the idea of double predestination,as truly hellish teachings.

I had a co-worker, an OSAS believer and a fundamnetalist pastor in chicago. He littered the work place with jack chick tracts. One time we were talking about the forgiveness of sins, he told me that God will not allow us to die without confessing our sins and all our future sins have been forgiven. He is gay living with another man.

I wanted to ask him if the reason he believes in OSAS is to justify his sinful relationship with another man, but I don’t have the nerve to ask it.

 

[BrianH]

It is all a matter of anecdotal experiences it appears. My experiences with fundamentalist Baptists is they put every one to shame, except possibly the Amish and some of the stricter Pentecostals, in avoiding anything that can be construed as sin…others have different experiences. I still remember my high school visit to a certain very well know fundamentalist college. I THOUGHT I was good to go:
No drinking at all
No rock, country, or contemporary Christian music
No dancing
No handholding or kissing
No movies
No profanity
Witnessing teams
but it came out I played video games and I was told “I would need to stop worldly amusements that could cause a brother to stumble”…
I was not quite good enough yet…

 

[SIA]

It did mine…

Well, i can’t blame everything on a belief in osas… but it definitely influenced my life in an adverse way…

When i was very young and uncatechized, i met this person who said that if i have accepted Christ, no matter how terrible the sin i commit, i am still saved (going to Heaven). I believed that because didn’t recall certain Scripture passages that disagreed… and didn’t know my Faith…

I ended up doing things i am still paying for… and will pay for till the day I die and possibly beyond… ( i HAVE done a lot of painful “expiation”… but probably not nearly enough… :banghead: :hypno: )

So… How has osas affected you???

If you are truly saved, you are saved period. Your name isn’t written in the book of life with a pencil pending an eraser. The problem with so many Evangelicals and such claiming that they have been saved is that they really are not saved but instead are riding high for the moment on the emotional religious rollercoaster. To be faithful in Christ is to receive God’s grace and be saved. You cannot earn it.

 

[ferdie]

True anecdotal expereience. I have good expereiences too in Liberty Bible Baptist Church and I enjoyed it. They are what you say they are, but they are really anti-catholic specially the pastor.

 

[maryrev12]

Sure, Christians are capable of living in continual sin, that is, if they want to live a most miserable live. However the scripture tells us that God will not permit us to be temped beyond what we can bear and He provide us with an avenue of escape.

If a person calls him or herself a Christian but continues to live a sinful lifestyle then there has be the question raised as to weather they are true Christians. The two just are not compable…quite biblical…quite Baptist

How do you interpret Heb. 10:26, and the other multitude of verses that tell us we can indeed say no to the Spirit and lose our salvation? I’d be happy to share them with you. We must take all of the verses, not just the ones we like.

“IF WE DELIBERATELY KEEP ON SINNING AFTER WE RECEIVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH, NO SACRIFICE FOR SINS IS LEFT, BUT ONLY A FEARFUL EXPECTATION OF JUDGMENT…”

How many verses in the NT tell us to “say yes” to God and the Spirit?

saying yes is an act of will. (You don’t sound like a free will baptist?)

As an x osas believer, I was actually convinced I was not elected. I struggle with certain sins and it takes a ton of bricks to hit me more than once it seems to get me out of certain behaviors. I believed that God had created me as an" ignoble" vessel. This almost killed me. I believed I had no free will, and since I could not stop, I must not be elected

What beautiful truth I found in His Church, that the sin that was overwhelming me WAS my own choice, not Gods. I kneel down to our Lord and admit my own powerlessness over my sin… I say “yes” and that “yes” becomes the open door for the Lord to work in me and heal me.

The Catholic Church also teaches the scriptures far more literally that any of the prot. churches I went to. You don’t have to twist the scriptures so they fit into the doctrines… they mean what they say! ( taken in context)

Praise Him!

 

[SteveGC]

Sure, Christians are capable of living in continual sin, that is, if they want to live a most miserable live. However the scripture tells us that God will not permit us to be temped beyond what we can bear and He provide us with an avenue of escape.

No argument from me there. Except be careful not to presume that this promise from God is unconditional, that it requires nothing but a one-time professed belief on our part. Quite the contrary. We certainly will be equipped for every temptation, IF we are properly disposed for that gift. Proper disposition demands repentance, confession, obedience, conformity of the will. We are not just equipped for the fight because we genuinely professed once that we believe in Christ.

Also…interesting that you flung a verse at us here (1Cor10:13), but didn’t make reference to the verse right before it. 1Cor10:12…

*Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. *

The audience being spoken to here are professed, believing Christians, and it is essesntially a warning about believing in OSAS.

Look, I think you and I actually believe much of the same things here…to a degree. I don’t think you are the classic, problematic OSAS advocate. You make a case for genuine Christianity that is highly in-line with Catholic teaching. You make references to obedience and on-going conversion of heart. I don’t think that you think one can just profess belief in Christ, and they are then saved no matter what they then do. And well-catechized Catholics don’t believe this either, because the Church certainly doesn’t teach that.

You see, problematic OSAS’ers are the ones who promise God’s salvation to anyone who makes a mere proclamation of belief. This is not you. I’m actually not sure what your argument is, frankly. I think it has more to do with “absolute undeniable assurance of salvation” to a true follower of Christ, and perhaps a problem with the necessity of life-long repentance as a prerequisite for salvation. These things are quite debatable, but I think the OP is really talking about the problematic OSAS folks as I just described. It is those types of people who complicate and hinder the proper maturity of the faith of Christians.

God Bless

 

[SteveGC]

If you are truly saved, you are saved period. Your name isn’t written in the book of life with a pencil pending an eraser.

Yes, but the question is…WHEN are you truly saved? For Catholics, we cannot and do not proclaim this salvation for ourselves…EVER. Sure, we may indeed be saved, but it is NOT for us to decide. We can have much hope, and even a reasonable assurance (by following the precepts of Mother Church), but there is no point along our span of life where we can say that we are now saved regardless of our actions for the rest of our earthly days.

The problem with so many Evangelicals and such claiming that they have been saved is that they really are not saved but instead are riding high for the moment on the emotional religious rollercoaster.

Agreed.

To be faithful in Christ is to receive God’s grace and be saved. You cannot earn it

Faithful in Christ is quite vague. If you mean obedient and truly repentant until your dying breath…then agreed.

I am tired of the “you cannot earn it” argument. It is silly. OK, we don’t “earn” it in the sense that God “owes” it to us. No Catholic believes that. The Church HAS NEVER taught that. You know what?..I don’t know of ANY Christian who professes that they are owed salvation from God. The reason is simple…because God “owing” us salvation implies that WE DID SOMETHING FIRST! And of course we didn’t do anything FIRST!! No one believes that. Heretics maybe. But certainly not Catholics.

GOD did it FIRST. He offers us the gift. But there is a context of the notion of “earn” which also means that WE DO SOMETHING SECOND.

1. You have some candy. You offer it to me, with conditions. I comply. I earn the candy.
2. I do something first…then demand the candy from you, thinking that I earned it. Not our place to demand anything. We are denied. I cannot earn the candy on my own iniative since you did not offer the candy to me.

People think that Catholics follow the second scenario. Nope. We follow the first.

So, based on the first scenario, of course we earn it. Some earn it the minimalist way, by just professing their belief and faith in Christ. That belief is a condtion to the free gift, is it not?? Well guess what? A condition means that YOU had to DO something, if YOU didn’t DO it, you wouldn’t have salvation. Those who do NOT profess this belief DO NOT come to be entitled to salvation.

The only difference is that faithful Catholics don’t earn it the minimalist way. We have to believe, have faith, be baptized, be obedient, be repentant…and it is a life-long effort, with the help of the graces of God, who makes all of our efforts possible.