Did Bl. Pius IX really do this?

[Pope_Noah_I]

Apparently, at the end of Vatican I, when the Greek Melkite Patriarch Gregory II Youssef advanced to kiss the feet of the Pontiff, His Holiness stepped on the Patriarch’s neck with his full weight, and verbally berated him, calling him “a stubborn mule”. If this is true, well, my respect for Pius decreased.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Apparently, at the end of Vatican I, when the Greek Melkite Patriarch Gregory II Youssef advanced to kiss the feet of the Pontiff, His Holiness stepped on the Patriarch’s neck with his full weight, and verbally berated him, calling him “a stubborn mule”. If this is true, well, my respect for Pius decreased.

Where did you get this tidbit of information? I’m really curious. IWhere do these types of rumors originate from? Since Pius IX is called “Blessed” I’m sure any public act of that degrading nature would have put him out of consideration for Sainthood!

 

[jimmy]

I have heard this as well. I don’t know how true it is.

 

[LilyM]

Where did you get this tidbit of information? I’m really curious. IWhere do these types of rumors originate from? Since Pius IX is called “Blessed” I’m sure any public act of that degrading nature would have put him out of consideration for Sainthood!

What, like St Augustine’s public living in sin, publicly known fathering of an illegitimate child and very public decades of heresy???

Sainthood doesn’t mean perfection or sinlessness during every moment of one’s life.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

What, like St Augustine’s public living in sin, publicly known fathering of an illegitimate child and very public decades of heresy???

Sainthood doesn’t mean perfection or sinlessness during every moment of one’s life.

Yeah, but, seriously, the poor man was about to venerate the Pontiff and Pius physically dominated him. Although, this does remind me of the tale of St. Nicholas punching Arius at the Council of Nicea…

 

[ProVobis]

Yeah, but, seriously, the poor man was about to venerate the Pontiff and Pius physically dominated him. Although, this does remind me of the tale of St. Nicholas punching Arius at the Council of Nicea…

He doesn’t sound like a very popular Pope. I had a “friend” who thought Pius IX’s greatest mistake was coming down hard on Freemasonry.

 

[CB_Catholic]

What, like St Augustine’s public living in sin, publicly known fathering of an illegitimate child and very public decades of heresy???

Sainthood doesn’t mean perfection or sinlessness during every moment of one’s life.

St. Augustine was not converted at the time of those events and did not know Christ. His behavior and thinking changed radically after his conversion, and he chastised himself for the rest of his life. I am very well aware of the fact that the Saints sinned and were not perfect. I, for one, do not give any credence to this rumor. For Blessed Pius IX to publicly display such temper and publicly humiliate a man in that manner does not speak of the “heroic virtue” that is looked at in consideration for Sainthood. Did he sin while Pope? Of course he did. We all do. But an action like that would show an extreme lack of self-contol and unChristlike behavior in a man as holy and spiritually advanced as this Pope is reputed to be, and surely would not further his cause.

I still would like to find the source of this, if there is any.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I have heard this story about this encounter. I don’t know if it’s true or not.

However, I have heard these tidbits about Gretory II:

1. He left Rome before the vote was taken.
2. For years he refused to sign the decree, and when he finally did, he added words to this effect: “Provided the rights and dignities of the Eastern Patriarchs are not compromised.”

 

[latinmasslover]

Yeah, but, seriously, the poor man was about to venerate the Pontiff and Pius physically dominated him. Although, this does remind me of the tale of St. Nicholas punching Arius at the Council of Nicea…

BRAVO, St. Nicholas!

 

[latinmasslover]

St. Augustine was not converted at the time of those events and did not know Christ. His behavior and thinking changed radically after his conversion, and he chastised himself for the rest of his life. I am very well aware of the fact that the Saints sinned and were not perfect. I, for one, do not give any credence to this rumor. For Blessed Pius IX to publicly display such temper and publicly humiliate a man in that manner does not speak of the “heroic virtue” that is looked at in consideration for Sainthood. Did he sin while Pope? Of course he did. We all do. But an action like that would show an extreme lack of self-contol and unChristlike behavior in a man as holy and spiritually advanced as this Pope is reputed to be, and surely would not further his cause.

I still would like to find the source of this, if there is any.

Your statement implies that once converted, a person who is canonized (or will be) cannot make a serious mistake.

This is the first I’ve heard of the incident, and would also like a source.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

I’ve heard this from Catholic priests in good standing, I for one believe the anecdote.

Personally, it smacks of quite a good deal of arrogance on the Pope’s part, and certainly fills me with wonder that the actual proclamation of infallibility to come forth from the Council was as subdued as it was.

 

[jimmy]

I’ve heard this from Catholic priests in good standing, I for one believe the anecdote.

Personally, it smacks of quite a good deal of arrogance on the Pope’s part, and certainly fills me with wonder that the actual proclamation of infallibility to come forth from the Council was as subdued as it was.

I get the same feeling from it Pio XII.

 

[puzzleannie]

still not a shred of evidence or support for original allegation. it figures.

 

[Majoreditor]

Actually, there are several published sources which assert that Pius IX abused Patriarch Gregory II. See, for example, Ecumenical Reflections by Archbishop Elias Zoghby, page 83 (ISBN: 1-892278-06-5).

 

[puzzleannie]

a citation from an Orthodox source is hardly documentation

an entire thread discussion an allegation of a serious nature which by itself is detraction, with not a shred of evidence. I am ashamed

 

[Kaninchen]

If kidnapping can’t stop Pio Nono becoming a saint, why should treading on a prelate?

 

[mardukm]

When I was Orthodox NOT in communion with Rome, the line was that Pio Nono just slapped him a few times.

Another version I heard was that the Pope sent his personal guards to beat up on the very old Patriarch.

This new version gets the cake though.

 

[mardukm]

BTW, I forgot to mention that the differing accounts can’t agree if the Pope stepped on his head or on his neck. Fancy that.


I can’t find a reference earlier than 1977 for this story (from a German magazine). When was HE Zoghby’s book published?

 

[malphono]

a citation from an Orthodox source is hardly documentation

an entire thread discussion an allegation of a serious nature which by itself is detraction, with not a shred of evidence. I am ashamed

Bishop Elias Zoghby was not Orthodox. He was, rather, the Melkite Bishop of Baalbeck (Lebanon).

 

[puzzleannie]

Bishop Elias Zoghby was not Orthodox. He was, rather, the Melkite Bishop of Baalbeck (Lebanon).

still waiting for cite with context which gives his authoritative source for the story, beyond anecdote
since it is not forthcoming I assume it does not exist