Did Cardinal Newman admit early church was modalist

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Yet another charge from my Oneness friend. I do not know Cardinal Newman…and I do not know where oneness man got his information. Just help me out with it if you can. Catholic Cardinal Newman’s Confession

John Henry Newman C.O. (21 February 1801 -11 August 1890[2][3]), also referred to as Cardinal Newman and Blessed John Henry Newman, was an important figure in the religious history of England in the 19th century. He was known nationally by the mid-1830s.[4]

Originally an evangelical Oxford academic and priest in the Church of England, Newman was a leader in the Oxford Movement. This influential grouping of Anglicans wished to return the Church of England to many Catholic beliefs and forms of worship traditional in the medieval times to restore ritual expression. In 1845 Newman left the Church of England and was received into the Roman Catholic Church where he was eventually granted the rank of cardinal by Pope Leo XIII. He was instrumental in the founding of the Catholic University of Ireland,[5] which evolved into University College, Dublin, today, the largest university in Ireland.

Newman’s beatification was officially proclaimed by Pope Benedict XVI on 19 September 2010 during his visit to the United Kingdom.[1] His canonisation is dependent on the documentation of additional miracles.

(The following is an excerpt from a book by Harry A. Peyton:)

"Catholic Cardinal Newman confessed that God’s Modalist Monarchian Churches were in the vast majority for the first 400 years. The well known Catholic professor John Henry Cardinal Newman, in his work entitled Essays And Sketches, presented Catholicism as the original Church. But even he had to admit that the doctrines of the Trinity, apostolic succession, the Eucharist, and the Mass are not found in the Bible. Even though he understood these facts, he still believed they were true. He defends them not from a Biblical point of view, but from the traditions of the early Catholic Fathers. He most definitely believed that the Bible must be interpreted by their writings, and only by their writings. He admonished all Protestants to accept by faith these Catholic doctrines, since they have accepted the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity by faith without any real scriptural proof. In volume one, he made the following statements:

"Newman asked Protestants, “Where was your Church before Luther?” The obvious and historical answer is they were in the Roman Catholic Church. He then proceeded by saying, “Take a large view of the faith of Christians during the centuries before Constantine established their [meaning the Roman Catholic] religion. Is there any family likeness in it to Protestantism?” [137] The obvious answer is no. He then went on to prove that historically, by comparing the teachings of the Reformers with that of the Catholic Ante Nicene Fathers.

"After that, Father Newman made a very shocking confession. Let’s hear this Priest’s confession and see if He makes a good and true confession before we grant him absolution. He said, “all parties must confess, the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity is not brought out in form upon the surface of Scriptures.”

“As I have said more than once, to allege, that all points that are beyond clear Scripture proof are mere peculiarities of each sect [meaning different religious systems]; so that if all Protestants were to agree to put out of sight their respective peculiarities [meaning unscriptural doctrines], they would then have a Creed set forth distinctly, clearly, and adequately, in Scripture; for take that single instance, which I referred to in a former Lecture, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Is this to be considered as a mere peculiarity or no? Apparently a peculiarity [for] it is not brought out in form in Scripture. First, the word Trinity is not in Scripture. Next I ask how many of the verses of the Athanasian Creed are distinctly set down in Scripture?" [138] The answer to Newman’s question is very few.

"Newman continued his confession and reproach of Protestants by saying, “He who admits the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, in spite of felling its difficulties, whether in itself or in its proof ‑ who submits to the indirectness [meaning lack] of the Scripture evidence as regards that particular doctrine ‑ has a right to be told those other doctrines, such as the apostolic succession.” [139]

"Newman proceeded with his confession and reproach to the fallen away daughters of Catholicism by saying, “not Scripture, but history [meaning the tradition of the Ante Nicene Priests] is our informant in Christian doctrine….” All Protestants “who consider the Bible as the one standard of faith,” meaning those who say they base their beliefs on the Bible and not tradition, “let no one take refuge and comfort in the idea that he will be what is commonly called an orthodox Protestant…,
[if] he will admit the doctrine of the Trinity, but not that of the Apostolic Succession…; [for] this is an impossible position: it is shutting one eye, and looking with the other, shut both or open both.” [140]
 
What confessor Newman is saying is this, since Protestants have accepted and believed the Catholic version of the Babylonian Trinity by faith without any real scriptural proof, they then have earn for themselves the right to accept and believe by faith all other Catholic doctrines which are also not directly taught in the Bible, as he openly admitted on pages 122, 206, 207 and 211. No matter what people may or may not say about Cardinal Newman, I do believe he made a good and true confession, for which God’s people everywhere do thank him, and grant unto him absolution. Now, with the above truths in mind, let’s proceed with the history of God’s True Church.

"Newman made his greatest and boldest confession when he was scolding the Protestants about Luther’s protest. He referred them to the protest that was made by the one God Jesus’ Name Apostolic Christians, who believed all the godhead, i.e. the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, dwelt totally in one person, the Lord Jesus Christ. Newman said, "Praxeas, Noetus, and Sabellius, in the third century protested against the Catholic or Athanasian doctrine of the Holy Trinity… Noetus was in Asia Minor, Praxeas taught in Rome, Sabellius in Africa. Nay we read…their doctrine prevailed among the common people, then and at an earlier date, to a very great extent, and the true faith [Catholicism] was hardly preached in the churches.” [141]

"This is the greatest confession of truth, I have ever read from any Protestant or Catholic minister. Newman clearly stated that the Catholic Churches, in the Roman Empire, were in the vast minority for over three hundred years, and the Modalist Monarchian Pentecostal Churches were in the majority. The truth is they were in the majority for almost four hundred years. Now, were did Newman read this about the true believers? He did not say. I will shortly show that he read this in the writings of Tertullian and Hippolytus

I need help against this crazy man!!! Thank you for your time on this issue. God Bless Catholic Answers!!
 
I see that the author he is quoting from is Harry Peyton a modalist.
 
“Catholic Cardinal Newman confessed that God’s Modalist Monarchian Churches were in the vast majority for the first 400 years.”
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/denominations.htm
The Modalist Monarchians, the Monarchians properly so-called denied the Mystery of the Trinity, and held that God the Father and God the Son were one and the same person.
sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/001/index.htm

Introductory Note to the Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus
[a.d. 130.] The anonymous author of this Epistle gives himself the title (Mathetes) “a disciple 263 of the Apostles,” and I venture to adopt it as his name. It is about all we know of him, and it serves a useful end. I place his letter here, as a sequel to the Clementine Epistle, for several reasons, which I think scholars will approve: (1) It is full of the Pauline spirit, and exhales the same pure and primitive fragrance which is characteristic of Clement. (2) No theory as to its date very much conflicts with that which I adopt, and it is sustained by good authorities. (3) But, as a specimen of the persuasives against Gentilism which early Christians employed in their intercourse with friends who adhered to heathenism, it admirably illustrates the temper prescribed by St. Paul (2 Tim. ii. 24), and not less the peculiar social relations of converts to the Gospel with the more amiable and candid of their personal friends at this early period.
Mathetes was possibly a catechumen of St. Paul or of one of the apostle’s associates. I assume that his correspondent was the tutor of M. Aurelius. Placed just here, it fills a lacuna in the series, and takes the place of the pseudo (second) Epistle of Clement, which is now relegated to its proper place with the works falsely ascribed to St. Clement.
Altogether, the Epistle is a gem of purest ray; and, while suggesting some difficulties as to interpretation and exposition, it is practically clear as to argument and intent. Mathetes is, perhaps, the first of the apologists.
Chapter X.—The blessings that will flow from faith.
If you also desire [to possess] this faith, you likewise shall receive first of all the knowledge of the Father. 317 For God has loved mankind, on whose account He made the world, to whom He rendered subject all the things that are in it, 318 to whom He gave reason and understanding, to whom alone He imparted the privilege of looking upwards to Himself, whom He formed after His own image, to whom He sent His only-begotten Son, to whom He has promised a kingdom in heaven, and will give it to those who have loved Him. And when you have attained this knowledge, with what joy do you think you will be filled? Or, how will you love Him who has first so loved you? And if you love Him, you will be an imitator of His kindness. And do not wonder that a man may become an imitator of God. He can, if he is willing. For it is not by ruling over his neighbours, or by seeking to hold the supremacy over those that are weaker, or by being rich, and showing violence towards those that are inferior, that happiness is found; nor can any one by these things become an imitator of God. But these things do not at all constitute His majesty. On the contrary he who takes upon himself the burden of his neighbour; he who, in whatsoever respect he may be superior, is ready to benefit another who is deficient; he who, whatsoever things he has received from God, by distributing these to the needy, becomes a god to those who receive [his benefits]: he is an imitator of God. Then thou shalt see, while still on earth, that God in the heavens rules over [the universe]; then thou shall begin to speak the mysteries of God; then shalt thou both love and admire those that suffer punishment because they will not deny God; then shall thou condemn the deceit and error of the world when thou shall know what it is to live truly in heaven, when thou shalt despise that which is here esteemed to be death, when thou shalt fear what is truly death, which is reserved for those who shall be condemned to the eternal fire, which shall afflict those even to the end that are committed to it. Then shalt thou admire those who for righteousness’ sake endure the fire that is but for a moment, and shalt count them happy when thou shalt know [the nature of] that fire.
 
Thank you JM3. Do you have any idea where the author of tho book got his info?? Do you think it was something Cardinal Newman said and was taken out of context.
 
Thank you JM3. Do you have any idea where the author of tho book got his info?? Do you think it was something Cardinal Newman said and was taken out of context.
I am not familiar with Blessed Newman’s work, but here is a webside containing his works…

newmanreader.org/

Also, ask him the source of the Newman work he is citing, so that it could easily be checked.

There is a place for reader comments, you I think you could post the question there.

Better yet, why don’t you ask your friend to come here to this website and challenge the catholics here, instead of going through you…anyway, just a thought.
 
I am not familiar with Blessed Newman’s work, but here is a webside containing his works…

newmanreader.org/

Also, ask him the source of the Newman work he is citing, so that it could easily be checked.

There is a place for reader comments, you I think you could post the question there.

Better yet, why don’t you ask your friend to come here to this website and challenge the catholics here, instead of going through you…anyway, just a thought.
Thank you pablope. I have asked him several times to come here. However…he is evading the truth and he likes it. If you are on facebook here is his link to his writing. facebook.com/notes/jerry-lynn-hayes/apostolic-pentecostal-churces-were-in-the-vast-majority-from-33-399-ad/10150251605611433 His wall is open. I would love for Catholics to friend him and challenge him on his page for all his followers to see. He is misleading so many people and I feel bad for them. This is my sister in law’s father. She has converted to Catholicism and he is giving her heck for it.
 
Thank you JM3. Do you have any idea where the author of tho book got his info?? Do you think it was something Cardinal Newman said and was taken out of context.
I could not find the term modalist or its variant from the from the newman reader…

But here is something to start with:

Source: newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume6/sermon24.html

And now I propose to state the doctrine, as far as it can be done, in a few words, in the mode in which it is disclosed to us in the text of Scripture; in doing which, if I shall be led on to mention one or two points of detail, it must not be supposed, as some persons strangely mistake, as if such additional statements were intended for explanation; whereas they leave the great Mystery just as it was before, and are only useful as {348} impressing on our mind what it is that the Catholic Church means to assert, and as making it a matter of real faith and apprehension, and not a mere assemblage of words.

Thus we must ever commence in all our teaching concerning the Holy Trinity; we must not begin by saying that there are Three, and then afterwards go on to say that there is One, lest we give false notions of the nature of that One; but we must begin by laying down the great Truth that there is One God in a simple and strict sense, and then go on to speak of Three, which is the way in which the mystery was progressively revealed in Scripture. In the Old Testament we read of the Unity; {350} in the New, we are enlightened in the knowledge of the Trinity.

And here, let it be observed, that we have a sort of figure or intimation of the sacred Mystery of the Trinity in Unity even in what has been now said concerning the Divine Attributes. For as the Attributes of God are many in one mode of speaking, yet all One in God; so, too, there are Three Divine Persons, yet these Three are One. Let it not be for an instant supposed that I am paralleling the two cases, which is the Sabellian heresy; but I use the one in illustration of the other; and, in way of illustration, I observe as follows: When we speak of God as Wisdom, or as Love, we mean to say that He is Wisdom, and that He is Love; that He is each separately and wholly, yet not that Wisdom is the same as Love, though He is both at once. Wisdom and Love stand for ideas quite distinct from each other, and not to be confused, though they are united in Him. In all He is and all He does, He is Wisdom and He is Love; yet it is both true that He is but One, and without qualities, and withal true again that Love is not Wisdom. Again, as God is Wisdom or Love, so is Wisdom or Love in and with God, and whatever God is. Is God eternal? so is His wisdom. Is He unchangeable? so is His wisdom. Is He uncreate, infinite, almighty, all-holy? His wisdom has these characteristics also. Since God has no parts or passions, whatever is really of or from God, is all that He is. If there is confusion of language here, and an apparent play upon words, this arises from our incapacity in comprehension and expression. We see that all these separate statements must be {351} true, and if they result in an apparent contrariety with each other, this we cannot avoid; nor need we be perplexed about them, nor shrink from declaring any one of them. That simple accuracy of statement which would harmonize all of them is beyond us, because the power of contemplating the Eternal, as He is, is beyond us. We must be content with what we can see, and use it for our practical guidance, without caring for the apparent contradiction of terms involved in our profession of it.
 
I could not find the term modalist or its variant from the from the newman reader…

But here is something to start with:

Source: newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume6/sermon24.html

Excerpts only…continuation:

It would appear, then, from the revelations of the Old Testament, that while God is in His essence most simply and absolutely one, yet there is a real sense in which He is not one, though created natures do not, cannot, furnish such representations of Him as to enable us easily to acquiesce in the conclusions to which the Scripture announcements inevitably lead. We understand things unknown, by the pattern of things seen and experienced; we are able to contemplate Almighty God so far as earthly things are partial reflexions of Him; when they fail us, we are lost. And as of course nothing earthly or created is His exact and perfect image, we have at best but dim glimpses of His infinite glory; and if Scripture reveal to us aught concerning Him, we must be content to take it on faith, without comprehending how it is, or having any clear understanding of our own words. When it declares to us that God is wise and good, we form some idea of what is meant from the properties and habits which attach to the human soul; when we read of His arm or eye, we {357} have some faint, though unworthy shadow of the truth in the members and organs of the human body; but when we read of His Spirit, or Word, or Presence, as at once very distinct from Him, yet most intimately one with Him,—more intimately one than our properties are one with our souls, more real and distinct than the members and organs of our bodies,—we feel the weight of that Mystery, which exists also when mention is made of the Divine Wisdom, or the Divine Arm, though we feel it not.

And this Mystery, which the Old Testament obscurely signifies, is in the New clearly declared; and it is this,—that the God of all, who is revealed in the Old Testament, is the Father of a Son from everlasting, called also His Word and Image, of His substance and partaker of all His perfections, and equal to Himself, yet without being separate from Him, but one with Him; and that from the Father and the Son proceeds eternally the Holy Spirit, who also is of one substance, Divinity, and majesty with Father and Son. Moreover we learn that the Son or Word is a Person,—that is, is to be spoken of as “He,” not “it,” and can be addressed; and that the Holy Ghost also is a Person. Thus God subsists in Three Persons, from everlasting to everlasting; first, God is the Father, next God is the Son, next God is the Holy Ghost; and the Father is not the Son, nor the Son the Holy Ghost, nor the Holy Ghost the Father. And God is Each of these Three, and nothing else; that is, He is either the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Ghost. Moreover, God is as wholly and entirely God in the Person of the {358} Father, as though there were no Son and Spirit; as entirely in that of the Son, as though there were no Spirit and Father; as entirely in that of the Spirit, as though there were no Father and Son. And the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Ghost God, while there is but one God; and that without any inequality, because there is but One God, and He is without parts or degrees; though how it is that that same Adorable Essence, indivisible, and numerically One, should subsist perfectly and wholly in Each of Three Persons, no words of man can explain, nor earthly illustration typify.

Now the passages in the New Testament in which this Sacred Mystery is intimated to us, are such as these. First, we read, as I have said already, that God is One; next, that He has an Only-begotten Son; further, that this Only-begotten Son is “in the bosom of the Father;” and that “He and the Father are One.” Further, that He is also the Word; that “the Word is God, and is with God;” moreover, that the Son is in Himself a distinct Person, in a real sense, for He has taken on Him our nature, and become man, though the Father has not. What is all this but the doctrine, that that God who is in the strictest sense One, is both entirely the Father, and is entirely the Son? or that the Father is God, and the Son God, yet but One God? Moreover the Son is the express “Image” of God, and He is “in the form of God,” and “equal with God,” and “he that hath seen Him, hath seen the Father,” and “He is in the Father and the Father in him.” Moreover the Son has all the attributes {359} of the Father: He is “Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty;” “by Him were all things created, visible and invisible;” “by Him do all things consist;” none but He “knoweth the Father,” and none but the Father “knoweth the Son.” He “knoweth all things;” He “searcheth the hearts and the reins;” He is “the Truth and the Life;” and He is the Judge of all men.

And again, what is true of the Son is true of the Holy Ghost; for He is “the Spirit of God;” He “proceedeth from the Father;” He is in God as “the spirit of a man that is in him;” He “searcheth all things, even the deep things of God;” He is “the Spirit of Truth;” the “Holy Spirit;” at the creation, He “moved upon the face of the waters;” “Whither shall I go,” says the Psalmist, “from Thy Spirit?” He is the Giver of all gifts, “dividing to every man severally as He will;” we are born again “of the Spirit.” To resist Divine grace is to grieve, to tempt, to resist, to quench, to do despite to the Spirit. He is the Comforter, Ruler, and Guide of the Church; He reveals things to come; and blasphemy against Him has never forgiveness. In all such passages, it is surely implied both that the Holy Ghost has a Personality of His own, and that He is God.
 
pablope;8145499:
I could not find the term modalist or its variant from the from the newman reader…

But here is something to start with:

Source: newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume6/sermon24.html
Excerpts only…continuation:

Lastly, it is added, “He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity:” on which I make two remarks, and so conclude. First, what is very obvious, that such a declaration supposes that a person has the opportunity of believing. We are not speaking of heathens, but of Christians; of those who are taught the truth, who have the offer of it, and who reject it. Accordingly, we do not contemplate in this Creed cases of imperfect or erroneous teaching;—or of what may be called misinformation of the reason; or any case of invincible ignorance; but of a man’s wilful rejection of what has been fairly set before him. Secondly, when the Creed says that we “must think thus of the Trinity,” it would seem to imply, that it had been drawing out a certain clear, substantive, consistent, and distinctive view of the doctrine, which is the Catholic view; and that, in opposition to other views of it, whether Sabellian, or Arian, or Tritheistic, or others that might be mentioned; all of which, without denying in words the Holy Three, do deny Him in fact and in the event, and involve their wilful maintainers in the anathema which is here proclaimed, not in harshness, but as a faithful warning, and a solemn protest.

May we never speak on subjects like this without {361} awe; may we never dispute without charity; may we never inquire without a careful endeavour, with God’s aid, to sanctify our knowledge, and to impress it on our hearts, as well as to store it in our understandings!
 
It appears the author is taking Cardinal Newman’s statement that one cannot prove the Trinity from Scripture and twisting it into an assertion that the early Church was modalist.
 
It appears the author is taking Cardinal Newman’s statement that one cannot prove the Trinity from Scripture and twisting it into an assertion that the early Church was modalist.
Seems like it…

Here is a retraction statement from Newman himself…

Source: newmanreader.org/works/viamedia/volume2/retractation.html

Of course the Author now withdraws the arguments referred to, as far as they reflect upon the Church of Rome, as well as the language in which they were conveyed.

[Oct. 11, 1883.—Sir William Palmer, in his republication of his “Narrative,” &c., in spite of using words of me, of which I feel the kindness, ventures to say that “Newman and Froude had consulted [Dr. Wiseman] at Rome upon the feasibility of being received as English Churchmen into the Papal communion, retaining their doctrines.” If this means that Hurrell Froude and I thought of being received into the Catholic Church while we still remained outwardly professing the doctrine and the communion of the Church of England, I utterly deny and protest against so calumnious a statement. Such an idea never entered into our heads. I can speak for myself, and, as far as one man can speak for another, I can answer for my dear friend also.]
 
Thank you pablope. I have asked him several times to come here. However…he is evading the truth and he likes it. If you are on facebook here is his link to his writing. facebook.com/notes/jerry-lynn-hayes/apostolic-pentecostal-churces-were-in-the-vast-majority-from-33-399-ad/10150251605611433 His wall is open. I would love for Catholics to friend him and challenge him on his page for all his followers to see. He is misleading so many people and I feel bad for them. This is my sister in law’s father. She has converted to Catholicism and he is giving her heck for it.
Sad indeed. I will check his FB later and I will try to post some rebuttals. We should continue to pray for him.

And I commend you for you and your brother’s strong faith. We could only set the example and let our faith show him the truth.
 
Sad indeed. I will check his FB later and I will try to post some rebuttals. We should continue to pray for him.

And I commend you for you and your brother’s strong faith. We could only set the example and let our faith show him the truth.
Thank you!! Of course, you will have to ask him to be a friend…but he will accept you. My brother and I love Mother Church so much…but we are not educated enough to defend her. That’s why we come here. God called his daughter home to the church. We are praying for him and the rest of her family!!
 
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