Did Catholic Bishops, through the organization, USCCB, make themselves clear on the abortion issue?

[Ignatius]

I say they did not .

Did Catholic Bishops, through the organization, USCCB, make themselves clear on the abortion issue?

No! Not even close.

 

[turtle18]

The more I think about it, the angrier I get. It reminds me of Pontius Pilate saying, “what is truth?” and then washing his hands of it. He wanted to please the crowds and not offend anyone.

You actually could draw an analogy there…because of their inaction they could be leading thousands of innocents to the slaughter. Just as Pontius Pilate’s inaction & wishiwashiness led to the slaughter of Jesus.

 

[elts1956]

Here are a couple more of the clergy who have stood up and taken a stand on the immorality of abortion.

Father Stephen F. Rorraco, PhD
A brief Catechism for Catholic Voters

ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm and
Bishop Herman of St. Louis
Remember Judgement Day …Bishop reminds Catholics to remember Judgment Day in the voting booth

Bishop Vasa of N.C.
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091203.html
Pro Abortion Candidates are disqualified.

Please feel free to add to the list. Thanks.

 

[elts1956]

Here are a couple more of the clergy who have stood up and taken a stand on the immorality of abortion.

ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm
Father Stephen F. Torraco, PhD
A brief Catechism for Catholic Voters

ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm and
Bishop Herman of St. Louis
Remember Judgement Day …Bishop reminds Catholics to remember Judgment Day in the voting booth

Bishop Vasa of N.C.
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091203.html
Pro Abortion Candidates are disqualified.

Please feel free to add to the list. Thanks.

 

[CradleCath]

Here are a couple more of the clergy who have stood up and taken a stand on the immorality of abortion.

ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm
Father Stephen F. Torraco, PhD
A brief Catechism for Catholic Voters

ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm and
Bishop Herman of St. Louis
Remember Judgement Day …Bishop reminds Catholics to remember Judgment Day in the voting booth

Bishop Vasa of N.C.
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091203.html
Pro Abortion Candidates are disqualified.

Please feel free to add to the list. Thanks.

I realize that you’ve already mentioned Bishop Hermann, but there are two more Bishops quoted in this article.
cfcforfamilyandlife.multiply.com/journal/item/104

Friday, October 17, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In these final weeks before the American election, many US bishops are working hard to leave Catholics no doubt of where they must stand on the abortion issue when it comes to the ballot box.

Bishops **Robert W. Finn of Kansas City, Robert Hermann of St. Louis, and Edwin O’Brien of Baltimore **have all penned strongly worded columns on abortion in the last few days, calling on their flocks to vote pro-life and to support the pro-life cause more generally, describing the November election as one that comes down to “saving our children or killing our children.” “This,” says Bishop Hermann in the St. Louis Review, “is the overriding issue facing each of us.”

The letters provide no room for equivocation or rationalization. “All other issues … have to take second place to the issue of life,” writes Bishop Hermann, whose article particularly targets “so-called good Catholics,” regular church-goers who receive the Eucharist but “are quite ready to vote for a pro-abortion candidate under almost any circumstance.”

 

[elts1956]

I realize that you’ve already mentioned Bishop Hermann, but there are two more Bishops quoted in this article.
cfcforfamilyandlife.multiply.com/journal/item/104

Friday, October 17, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In these final weeks before the American election, many US bishops are working hard to leave Catholics no doubt of where they must stand on the abortion issue when it comes to the ballot box.

Bishops **Robert W. Finn of Kansas City, Robert Hermann of St. Louis, and Edwin O’Brien of Baltimore **have all penned strongly worded columns on abortion in the last few days, calling on their flocks to vote pro-life and to support the pro-life cause more generally, describing the November election as one that comes down to “saving our children or killing our children.” “This,” says Bishop Hermann in the St. Louis Review, “is the overriding issue facing each of us.”

The letters provide no room for equivocation or rationalization. “All other issues … have to take second place to the issue of life,” writes Bishop Hermann, whose article particularly targets “so-called good Catholics,” regular church-goers who receive the Eucharist but “are quite ready to vote for a pro-abortion candidate under almost any circumstance.”

www.ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm and www.priestsforlife.org are two great sources to find out how to form your conscience for those of muddled faith.

I just don’t understand how so many Catholics can be so confused when the words are right there in front of them.

Anyone reading either Humanae Vitae, or Evangelium Vitae would be able to get the rocks out of their heads and adjust their brains. I am getting frustrated. Can you tell.

Thanks for the post.

 

[elts1956]

I too bless the Bishops that have stood up and made their voice sound loud and clear. Those that feel they need to stride the fence and make statements ambiguous which injure the faithful

Gregory the Great said it better than me: “The shepard’s silence while ofter injurious to himself will always harm his flock.”

and Crist said it best: “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (Jn 8:32)

As is its type, the USCCB is a committee. They sometimes outlive their usefulness. They at least need to remove the filter.

I too bless the Bishops that have stood up and made their voice sound loud and clear. Those that feel they need to stride the fence and make statements ambiguous which injure the faithful

Gregory the Great said it better than me: “The shepard’s silence while ofter injurious to himself will always harm his flock.”

and Crist said it best: “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (Jn 8:32)

 

[Howard_Roark]

It’s the 50-yard-line principle at work.

1/3 of the Bishops are orthodox and pro-life.

1/3 of the Bishops are captured by the gay agenda (let’s see if that wording gets me another vacation) and aren’t pro-life.

1/3 of the Bishops are sitting on the 50-yard between the extremes and much like the swing vote in American politics, they actually control the agenda.

This document represents the 50-yard liner Bishops trying to do what Rome told them to do without generating any controversy in their chanceries…and this document was/is vague enough that Sr. Wicca Frumpybottom in the Religious Ed office can teach right around it and therefore won’t make a stink about it.

 

[elts1956]

It’s the 50-yard-line principle at work.

1/3 of the Bishops are orthodox and pro-life.

1/3 of the Bishops are captured by the gay agenda (let’s see if that wording gets me another vacation) and aren’t pro-life.

1/3 of the Bishops are sitting on the 50-yard between the extremes and much like the swing vote in American politics, they actually control the agenda.

This document represents the 50-yard liner Bishops trying to do what Rome told them to do without generating any controversy in their chanceries…and this document was/is vague enough that Sr. Wicca Frumpybottom in the Religious Ed office can teach right around it and therefore won’t make a stink about it.

Don’t know about the Gay agenda, but I have to agree you are pretty much on the money. I liked your post in spite of the naah, naaaaaaaahs on the other one.

 

[fix]

Well, that’s the kicker, isn’t it. No where prominent is it stated obviously that abortion takes precedence. Any guide to conscience should at the very least have an executive summary. I know that might offend some, but how many Joes and Juanitas in the pew are going to read that dreadfully long, poorly written document.

Did not Christ say that He was the light and the way? Yes. This document is mud soup. If Christ was as confusing, we’d all still be pagans.

I think that the document is handy for other election, but not in this Presidential one. It’s way too nuanced. I wonder what grade level it is written at?

Good points.

 

[bubba451]

The problem with the current statements on abortion and other current discussions within the Church is very simple-as plain as the nose on your face. The Church has an already stated and communicated position on these matters. The issue then becomes one of clarity. We have all seen these various “clarification” statements from our priests and bishops. Most fill complete pages to validate themselves or their political patronage. Very few address the issue at hand cleanly and honestly. When an average person reads what should be a simple, lucid statement of Catholic teaching, they are left wondering what the bishop (or priest) actually said, much less what he MEANT.

The problem is that both the Church and her princes are verbose when clarity is needed. It appears that social welfare has replaced the Gospel of Christ. They want to appear educated and refined, sufficiently grave and reserved. They cover too many topics at once (particularly when a single issue is raised) and wind up saying nothing at all. The faithful then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to debate “What the Bishop/priest MEANT was….” and calling each other “heretic.”

The faithful and society in general have placed the proverbial golf ball on the tee, given the bishops a driver the size of a shoebox and they have collectively “whiffed.” A small remnant imitates Tiger Woods but the majority has just plain missed the ball entirely. They must DO something more than stand in the tee box and sheepishly shrug and grin at us. We deserve better. We must begin to demand it.

 

[elts1956]

The problem with the current statements on abortion and other current discussions within the Church is very simple-as plain as the nose on your face. The Church has an already stated and communicated position on these matters. The issue then becomes one of clarity. We have all seen these various “clarification” statements from our priests and bishops. Most fill complete pages to validate themselves or their political patronage. Very few address the issue at hand cleanly and honestly. When an average person reads what should be a simple, lucid statement of Catholic teaching, they are left wondering what the bishop (or priest) actually said, much less what he MEANT.

The problem is that both the Church and her princes are verbose when clarity is needed. It appears that social welfare has replaced the Gospel of Christ. They want to appear educated and refined, sufficiently grave and reserved. They cover too many topics at once (particularly when a single issue is raised) and wind up saying nothing at all. The faithful then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to debate “What the Bishop/priest MEANT was….” and calling each other “heretic.”

The faithful and society in general have placed the proverbial golf ball on the tee, given the bishops a driver the size of a shoebox and they have collectively “whiffed.” A small remnant imitates Tiger Woods but the majority has just plain missed the ball entirely. They must DO something more than stand in the tee box and sheepishly shrug and grin at us. We deserve better. We must begin to demand it.

Amen. Be sure to write your Bishop.

 

[Free_Radical]

Perhaps the Bishops did, indeed, know what they were doing when they wrote the guide, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.” It is also possible that they meant it when they ***clearly ***wrote, “As Catholics, we are not single issue voters.” :compcoff:

 

[fix]

Perhaps the Bishops did, indeed, know what they were doing when they wrote the guide, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.” It is also possible that they meant it when they ***clearly ***wrote, “As Catholics, we are not single issue voters.” :compcoff:

Abortion support disqualifies a candidate as does support for laws that allow for abortion. The bishops have issued clarification upon clarification for folks who refuse to get it.

 

[elts1956]

Perhaps the Bishops did, indeed, know what they were doing when they wrote the guide, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.” It is also possible that they meant it when they ***clearly ***wrote, “As Catholics, we are not single issue voters.” :compcoff:

That’s the problem, pro choicers read this and think they have the whole statement of the Catholic Church. Do some reading such as Humanae Vitae and Evangelium Vitae.

 

[JMJ_coder]

That’s the problem, pro choicers read this and think they have the whole statement of the Catholic Church. Do some reading such as Humanae Vitae and Evangelium Vitae.

Yup, Catholic teaching cannot easily be reduced to a one-line sound bite.

 

[bubba451]

Again, the problem is simple. These people who are voting for Pro-abortion candidates CONSIDER themselves Catholic by birth, training, and social background, BUT then agree that abortion on demand is moral. They are looking for a religious justification for their political decision and can’t find it. This makes them uncomfortable and it should. They endanger their souls by hanging on every sentence fragment that appears to support their position, particularly Church officials. The problem is that Church has a firm statement on this regardless of what “clarification” statements might suggest or even say. This is why we are called to become INFORMED Catholics.

Abortion is simply a “great moral evil”. Look it up. It’s even written down by the Church. It’s part of your faith-CCC 2270-2275. Get the book out and read this for yourself. Quit looking for some nail to hang your hat on like the USCCB statements. You CANNOT be Catholic and be Pro-Abortion or formally cooperate in any way. “By the very act”, you are excommunicated. By even the most convoluted logic “formal cooperation” must include voting for people who support this evil and make it possible. You cannot wash your hands of this. By doing so, you cease to be Catholic. This is the foundational teaching of the Church. Make your mind up. Choose to be Catholic OR be something else (Methodist, Presbyterian, Buddhist, rationalist, etc), but you are no longer Roman Catholic. Sorry.

Frankly, the USCCB statement was deliberately made to make the Pro-Abortion politicians happy and to not get the Bishops in trouble for saying nothing as a group. The point that the previous poster made in his one line rejoinder was we are not single issue voters. True, BUT without the support of life, NO OTHER ISSUE MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE. Not war, not economy, not choice–The dead do not need our defense, our rules, OR faith.

This statement was made to placate the people who might be offended by a stronger position (and hence contribute less) and by not sticking to the hard truth—the strong medicine, weakened their own statement to the point is unrecognizable as the truth of the Church. The Bishops whiffed, as I said before. Since then, individual Bishops have recognized the confusion they created and made progressively stronger individual statements than the USCCB.

If it makes you uncomfortable, good. Decide—Be Catholic or not-is a faith, not a cafeteria.

 

[Free_Radical]

Again, the problem is simple. These people who are voting for Pro-abortion candidates CONSIDER themselves Catholic by birth, training, and social background, BUT then agree that abortion on demand is moral. They are looking for a religious justification for their political decision and can’t find it. This makes them uncomfortable and it should. They endanger their souls by hanging on every sentence fragment that appears to support their position, particularly Church officials. The problem is that Church has a firm statement on this regardless of what “clarification” statements might suggest or even say. This is why we are called to become INFORMED Catholics.

Abortion is simply a “great moral evil”. Look it up. It’s even written down by the Church. It’s part of your faith-CCC 2270-2275. Get the book out and read this for yourself. Quit looking for some nail to hang your hat on like the USCCB statements. You CANNOT be Catholic and be Pro-Abortion or formally cooperate in any way. “By the very act”, you are excommunicated. By even the most convoluted logic “formal cooperation” must include voting for people who support this evil and make it possible. You cannot wash your hands of this. By doing so, you cease to be Catholic. This is the foundational teaching of the Church. Make your mind up. Choose to be Catholic OR be something else (Methodist, Presbyterian, Buddhist, rationalist, etc), but you are no longer Roman Catholic. Sorry.

Frankly, the USCCB statement was deliberately made to make the Pro-Abortion politicians happy and to not get the Bishops in trouble for saying nothing as a group. The point that the previous poster made in his one line rejoinder was we are not single issue voters. True, BUT without the support of life, NO OTHER ISSUE MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE. Not war, not economy, not choice–The dead do not need our defense, our rules, OR faith.

This statement was made to placate the people who might be offended by a stronger position (and hence contribute less) and by not sticking to the hard truth—the strong medicine, weakened their own statement to the point is unrecognizable as the truth of the Church. The Bishops whiffed, as I said before. Since then, individual Bishops have recognized the confusion they created and made progressively stronger individual statements than the USCCB.

If it makes you uncomfortable, good. Decide—Be Catholic or not-is a faith, not a cafeteria.

Do you think the Bishops of the USCCB who formed the guide, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship” might be familiar with the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Do you think they might also be familiar with the papal encyclicals *Humanae Vitae *and Evangelium Vitae? Because it sounds like some posters on this forum consider themselves to be greater expersts than the Bishops. And who gives you the right to decide who is Catholic and who is not?

When I make my final decision for whom to vote, I will consult the guide written by the USCCB. Likewise, I respect your free will and right to “pick and choose” the Voter’s Guide that you suits you best. Maybe that makes us all Cafeteria Catholics.

 

[fix]

Do you think the Bishops of the USCCB who formed the guide, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship” might be familiar with the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Do you think they might also be familiar with the papal encyclicals *Humanae Vitae *and Evangelium Vitae? Because it sounds like some posters on this forum consider themselves to be greater expersts than the Bishops. And who gives you the right to decide who is Catholic and who is not?

When I make my final decision for whom to vote, I will consult the guide written by the USCCB. Likewise, I respect your free will and right to “pick and choose” the Voter’s Guide that you suits you best. Maybe that makes us all Cafeteria Catholics.

The bishops involved in writting the document have issued clarifications. Does truth contradict truth?

 

[bubba451]

As an example of the POST USCCB statements clairifying their position:

“This is Bishop Rene H. Gracida, reminding all Catholics that they must vote in this election with an informed conscience. A Catholic cannot be said to have voted in this election with a good conscience if they have voted for a pro-abortion candidate. Barack Hussein Obama is a pro-abortion candidate.”

Pretty plain to me. Guess he only wanted to issue one statement…