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godsent
Guest
Did catholism happen and exist becuase of judaism?..if the jews accepted jesus as the messiah which we all know he was,would we be jewish?
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LoneRanger
Guest
Judeo-Christian…?
I vote yes!
I vote yes!
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urquhart
Guest
Yes to both, in my opinion.
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godsent
Guest
So in a way,we should still be jewish as all there morals are the same as they were all that time ago,the only difference is they didnt aceept jesus?..am i wrong?
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urquhart
Guest
Yes, I think so - attend services in a synagogue sometime: you will be astonished by the similarities to our practices.
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LoneRanger
Guest
remember what Christ said… He came to make all things NEW!
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godsent
Guest
But arnt jews still waiting for the son of david to turn up?
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Exporter
Guest
The answer to the original question is YES.
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godsent
Guest
“remember what Christ said… He came to make all things NEW”
Could you direct me to this passage in the bible please my fellow catholic?
Could you direct me to this passage in the bible please my fellow catholic?
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LoneRanger
Guest
yep, that’s why they are not christians… they don’t believe Jesus was/is the messiah… hence they are still waiting…
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godsent
Guest
So does that cancel out the jews?..and the reason for noah’s ark,was to wipe the planet clean and start fresh yes?
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Subrosa
Guest
Hi godsent -
The truth about the Jews accepting Jesus as the Messiah during Christ’s time is…some did and some didn’t! :tiphat:
The apostles were Jews, as were most of His disciples. In Acts, Peter and the other apostles debate whether or not to allow gentiles (non-jews) become followers of Christ. Previous to this discussion the only people that converted were Jews.
By the way, gentiles were pagans. That’s all there was then: Jews and pagans.
So, today we have traditional Jews along with Christians. By the way, some Jews today also convert to Christianity.
So it goes…
God bless,
Subrosa
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Subrosa
Guest
godsent said:
Last chapter of Revelation.
Revelation
Chapter 21
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2 I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (as their God).
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order has passed away."
5 The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”…
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godsent
Guest
I see,thanks for that
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Subrosa
Guest
Matthew
Chapter 5
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
18 Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
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mattkennel
Guest
Yes. Catholicism originated from Judaism. Jesus Christ, our God, said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matthew 5:17) But which law and prophets was Jesus talking about? The Jewish law and prophets, of course.
Catholic theology has always seen the Catholic Church as the New and Spiritual Israel. For the Old Covenant promised that God would make a New Covenant with Israel. Jeremiah said, “‘The time is coming,’ declares the LORD , ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…I will put my law on their minds and write it on their hearts.’” (Jer 31:31,33). This New Covenant was established by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.” (Luke 22:20). This blood of Christ, says St. Paul in Ephesians 2:13, has brought those who are “Gentiles by birth” near to “citizenship in Israel.” Essentially, Jesus sacrifice on the Cross, made present to us in the Holy Mass, incorporates us into the New Israel. As citizens of the new Israel we also become citizens of the New Jerusalem (cf. Rev 21:2), the “Jerusalem above” who “is our mother.” (Gal 4:26).
Also, our liturgy has deep connections to the Jewish liturgy. For example, the prayer “Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink.” in the Mass compares well with the Jewish blessing prayer, “Blessed are you, Lord, our God, king of the universe who creates the fruit of the vine.” Also, the prayer “Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the bread of life.” in the Mass compares will with the Jewish blessing prayer, “Blessed are you, Lord, our God, king of the universe who brings forth bread from the earth.” Notice once again the aspect of the Old Covenant finding fulfillment in the New, specifically in Christ’s sacrifice. And I’m sure that this is just the tip of the iceburg, but that’s all for now.
Catholic theology has always seen the Catholic Church as the New and Spiritual Israel. For the Old Covenant promised that God would make a New Covenant with Israel. Jeremiah said, “‘The time is coming,’ declares the LORD , ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…I will put my law on their minds and write it on their hearts.’” (Jer 31:31,33). This New Covenant was established by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.” (Luke 22:20). This blood of Christ, says St. Paul in Ephesians 2:13, has brought those who are “Gentiles by birth” near to “citizenship in Israel.” Essentially, Jesus sacrifice on the Cross, made present to us in the Holy Mass, incorporates us into the New Israel. As citizens of the new Israel we also become citizens of the New Jerusalem (cf. Rev 21:2), the “Jerusalem above” who “is our mother.” (Gal 4:26).
Also, our liturgy has deep connections to the Jewish liturgy. For example, the prayer “Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink.” in the Mass compares well with the Jewish blessing prayer, “Blessed are you, Lord, our God, king of the universe who creates the fruit of the vine.” Also, the prayer “Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the bread of life.” in the Mass compares will with the Jewish blessing prayer, “Blessed are you, Lord, our God, king of the universe who brings forth bread from the earth.” Notice once again the aspect of the Old Covenant finding fulfillment in the New, specifically in Christ’s sacrifice. And I’m sure that this is just the tip of the iceburg, but that’s all for now.
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A_O
Guest
I would recommend against attending a service at a synagogue, or looking to deep into Judaism.
Remember, the first schism in the Church came from the Judaizers who said we should ‘still be Jewish’. (Not eating flesh of unclean animals, circumcision, ect…)
Judeo-Christian is improper. We are Christians. The religions cannot be one because the Jews rejected Lord Jesus, who longed to gather them to himself.
I love the Jewish people, but when we attempt to merge the religions it becomes another sign of relativism in the Church.
Christ came to make all things new.
Remember, the first schism in the Church came from the Judaizers who said we should ‘still be Jewish’. (Not eating flesh of unclean animals, circumcision, ect…)
Judeo-Christian is improper. We are Christians. The religions cannot be one because the Jews rejected Lord Jesus, who longed to gather them to himself.
I love the Jewish people, but when we attempt to merge the religions it becomes another sign of relativism in the Church.
Christ came to make all things new.
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Ghosty
Guest
I came to the Catholic Church through accepting Orthodox Judaism as a true, living Covenant with the real God, so I’ll throw in my :twocents::
Judaism is, in itself and current form, incomplete. It’s incomplete in that the Messiah has not come; I think even Jews can agree with this statement so long as it’s understood to be based in the fact that the Covenant is still “going somewhere” and hasn’t reached its completion. This isn’t to say that Judaism is defective at all, only that it hasn’t yet reached its “final glory” that will come with the Messiah and the World to Come. What the faith will be like with the coming of the Messiah is a bit of an open question for Jews, though it is understood that the Gentiles will come to worship God and “come into the Covenant” in a certain sense.
Catholics believe that the Messiah has come, that He was Jesus, and that the Messiah was in fact God Incarnate as a man. For the Apostles it wasn’t a question of starting a new religion, but in realizing the “completion” of Judaism and implementing it. There was indeed a “new” Covenant, but more in the sense of an expansion and building upon the existing one, rather than something being made new from whole cloth; “I make all things new”. Catholicism, from a modern Jewish perspective, is a potential answer to the question of “how will things change with the coming of the Messiah”, but one that has “jumped the gun” in believing that the Messiah has already come. Obviously there is more to it than this, as Jewish identity has been greatly shaped by its experience in the post-Christian era, but I believe these are the core differences.
Modern Judaism, therefore, is not defined by its rejection of Jesus as the Messiah, but rather by its continuation of the long wait for the Messiah, a wait that was going on long before Jesus appeared on the scene. It’s wrong to view them as “the rejectors of Jesus”; it’s better to view them as those who uphold, to a “T”, the “incomplete” (again meant from a Jewish perspective, not intended to insult in any way) Hebrew Covenant. This means that they are indeed responding directly to God’s Call, indeed they are the ONLY other faith in the world that can be said to be a genuine and pure response to God. The Catholic Church is also a response to a genuine Call from God, the Call of the Messiah, of “God With Us”, and it is about taking Judaism into the post-Messianic era.
There will come a time when the modern Jews reunite with the Church, but it won’t be because they “recognize that their Covenant is voided”, but rather because they realize that the Church is the post-Messianic growth of their very same Covenant. It will not in ANY WAY be a rejection of their beliefs or culture. NOT AT ALL! Remember, Jews do not define themselves with “Jesus was not the Messiah”, merely with “we haven’t seen the Messiah yet”. Some Catholics might jump at me and say that it’s a distinction without a difference, and for them I want to quote St. Paul from Romans 11:
Judaism is, in itself and current form, incomplete. It’s incomplete in that the Messiah has not come; I think even Jews can agree with this statement so long as it’s understood to be based in the fact that the Covenant is still “going somewhere” and hasn’t reached its completion. This isn’t to say that Judaism is defective at all, only that it hasn’t yet reached its “final glory” that will come with the Messiah and the World to Come. What the faith will be like with the coming of the Messiah is a bit of an open question for Jews, though it is understood that the Gentiles will come to worship God and “come into the Covenant” in a certain sense.
Catholics believe that the Messiah has come, that He was Jesus, and that the Messiah was in fact God Incarnate as a man. For the Apostles it wasn’t a question of starting a new religion, but in realizing the “completion” of Judaism and implementing it. There was indeed a “new” Covenant, but more in the sense of an expansion and building upon the existing one, rather than something being made new from whole cloth; “I make all things new”. Catholicism, from a modern Jewish perspective, is a potential answer to the question of “how will things change with the coming of the Messiah”, but one that has “jumped the gun” in believing that the Messiah has already come. Obviously there is more to it than this, as Jewish identity has been greatly shaped by its experience in the post-Christian era, but I believe these are the core differences.
Modern Judaism, therefore, is not defined by its rejection of Jesus as the Messiah, but rather by its continuation of the long wait for the Messiah, a wait that was going on long before Jesus appeared on the scene. It’s wrong to view them as “the rejectors of Jesus”; it’s better to view them as those who uphold, to a “T”, the “incomplete” (again meant from a Jewish perspective, not intended to insult in any way) Hebrew Covenant. This means that they are indeed responding directly to God’s Call, indeed they are the ONLY other faith in the world that can be said to be a genuine and pure response to God. The Catholic Church is also a response to a genuine Call from God, the Call of the Messiah, of “God With Us”, and it is about taking Judaism into the post-Messianic era.
There will come a time when the modern Jews reunite with the Church, but it won’t be because they “recognize that their Covenant is voided”, but rather because they realize that the Church is the post-Messianic growth of their very same Covenant. It will not in ANY WAY be a rejection of their beliefs or culture. NOT AT ALL! Remember, Jews do not define themselves with “Jesus was not the Messiah”, merely with “we haven’t seen the Messiah yet”. Some Catholics might jump at me and say that it’s a distinction without a difference, and for them I want to quote St. Paul from Romans 11:
and:
cont…
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Ghosty
Guest
cont…
We are NOT to boast in the face of the Jews, for we see in the words of the Apostle that God has a plan for their persistance, and we have seen from history that they have NOT been cast out of the Covenant. We don’t know God’s plans, but lately we’ve been coming to a much greater appreciation of this message that’s been in our Scriptures since the beginning. We believe in the Second Coming, and they are awaiting the First; is it so hard to believe that the Second Coming will be recognized by both of our faiths, though perhaps understood differently? We are BOTH awaiting the Messiah, we Catholics have simply been doing the work of the Messianic Age (Ano Domini) for the past 2000 years. We are both awaiting the Final Coming in Glory, the only faiths in the world who do so.
We Catholics are a part of the Covenant, albeit the renewed and expanded one, called the Christian Covenant. In the words of Jewish Catholics, we are “completed Jews”. This is why we call Jews our “elder brothers”, because truly by the nature of the Covenant they are, meaning that we have come in to their faith. We all await the coming (return) of the Messiah, and we both agree that at that time distinctions will cease. God has set apart a remnant of the Jews for a reason we can not know, but we see that it is attested to by St. Paul. It is integral to the history of Salvation that this is so. We owe it to ourselves to honor the modern Jews even as we serve as living testimony to Jesus as the Messiah, just as they serve as living testimony to the faithfulness of God in all things.
We are NOT to boast in the face of the Jews, for we see in the words of the Apostle that God has a plan for their persistance, and we have seen from history that they have NOT been cast out of the Covenant. We don’t know God’s plans, but lately we’ve been coming to a much greater appreciation of this message that’s been in our Scriptures since the beginning. We believe in the Second Coming, and they are awaiting the First; is it so hard to believe that the Second Coming will be recognized by both of our faiths, though perhaps understood differently? We are BOTH awaiting the Messiah, we Catholics have simply been doing the work of the Messianic Age (Ano Domini) for the past 2000 years. We are both awaiting the Final Coming in Glory, the only faiths in the world who do so.
We Catholics are a part of the Covenant, albeit the renewed and expanded one, called the Christian Covenant. In the words of Jewish Catholics, we are “completed Jews”. This is why we call Jews our “elder brothers”, because truly by the nature of the Covenant they are, meaning that we have come in to their faith. We all await the coming (return) of the Messiah, and we both agree that at that time distinctions will cease. God has set apart a remnant of the Jews for a reason we can not know, but we see that it is attested to by St. Paul. It is integral to the history of Salvation that this is so. We owe it to ourselves to honor the modern Jews even as we serve as living testimony to Jesus as the Messiah, just as they serve as living testimony to the faithfulness of God in all things.
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
they way i think of it, christians are waiting for their savior to return, and jews are still waiting for their savior to come.
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