Did Christianity miss its "feminist movement" window?

[TCEL]

The problem with patriarchy is usually that the men come to think of women as less capable and worthy because so much of their lives is expended on incubating and raising children. The problem with modern feminism is generally the exact same thing. Look at practically anything Simone de Beauvoir wrote about woman. She regards mothers almost the same way that misogynist men used to.

The reality is that women are privileged to be able to do that which no man CAN do. A healthy culture will revere, honor and hold that role and value up as unique and precious without trying to use it to deny that women otherwise have practically all the other skills and gifts men do.

What helped put so many things into perspective for me was learning that disordered relationships between the sexes is due to original sin. (Man with God, man with himself, man with the other sex, and man with nature.)

And, I agree that women have an amazing power that no man has! Biology is powerful stuff.

 

[Lokadottir]

What helped put so many things into perspective for me was learning that disordered relationships between the sexes is due to original sin. (Man with God, man with himself, man with the other sex, and man with nature.)

And, I agree that women have an amazing power that no man has! Biology is powerful stuff.

So the obstacles in way of my success as a woman is because Eve screwed the pooch and NOT because such myths often exist in chauvinist societies? *Stares at Greeks and Pandora’s box)

 

[TCEL]

So the obstacles in way of my success as a woman is because Eve screwed the pooch and NOT because such myths often exist in chauvinist societies? *Stares at Greeks and Pandora’s box)

Where did I say that?

 

[Lokadottir]

Where did I say that?

“that disordered relationships between the sexes is due to original sin.”
perhaps I misunderstood you

 

[TCEL]

“that disordered relationships between the sexes is due to original sin.”
perhaps I misunderstood you

Both man and woman failed. Now, both man and woman have original sin. How equal can you get? (Hence, why Jesus is the “New Adam,” and Mary “the New Eve.”)

 

[manualman]

Historically philosopher’s generally pinned Original Sin on Adam rather than Eve. Chauvinism DOES cut both ways, after all…

I’m not sure that mother boils down to nothing more than “female parent” as Lokadottir suggests above. In fact, I’m rather sure it’s profoundly more than that. We live today in a society desperate to be androgynous, but deep down we really aren’t.

 

[Lokadottir]

We live today in a society desperate to be androgynous, but deep down we really aren’t.

Thank you manualman for speaking on the behalf of the entire human race.

 

[manualman]

What’s with the snark? You make the sweeping assumption that humans are malleable and can define their own identity and nature. I make the sweeping that we have an underlying nature whether we like it or not. What makes MY sweeping assertion more contemptible than yours?

 

[gardenswithkids]

…However, the idea that respecting motherhood = not respecting women’s ability to do what was once deemed only suitable for men (like VOTING) is toxic to human dignity. …

This thread asked about a much earlier time. Men didn’t have voting rights back then either.

I guess I don’t entirely understand this question. It was a far different time. The quality of life depended more on if one was born a noble or a commoner; a noble woman had more advantages over the average man.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Yes the role of child rearing is to be honored. But that should be done independent of gender.

While men can help take care of children, child rearing can’t be done entirely independent of gender when breastfeeding is the main source of nourishment for the young. We were talking about a period of time when women could find employment as “wet nurses”. Yes, they actually breastfed someone else’s child. Gender plays a part in child care because women can do somethings that men cannot do.

 

[Lokadottir]

While men can help take care of children, child rearing can’t be done entirely independent of gender when breastfeeding is the main source of nourishment for the young. We were talking about a period of time when women could find employment as “wet nurses”. Yes, they actually breastfed someone else’s child. Gender plays a part in child care because women can do somethings that men cannot do.

Yes gender roles arose through biological and social needs. I grant you this.

 

[Sarcelle]

This thread asked about a much earlier time. Men didn’t have voting rights back then either.

I guess I don’t entirely understand this question. It was a far different time. The quality of life depended more on if one was born a noble or a commoner; a noble woman had more advantages over the average man.

We will have to compare apples to apples.

Who had more.advantages, the average man or the average woman?

 

[simpleas]

Just for your interest.

In a recent interview to mark his one year anniversary, Pope Francis said the role of the Virgin Mary is greater than any bishop or apostle. He added that the Church is feminine at its origin, and so the role of women within the Church should be greater.

youtube.com/watch?v=2GeJ1hmzeNY

 

[fnr]

Did Christianity, in a sense, miss its opportunity for a women’s rights movement within the context of orthodoxy? The later women’s rights movement of the 19th century and into the 20th century isn’t at all entirely bad, but it is unquestionable that it has been mixed with movements such as abortion, divorce, and a soured image of motherhood in some circles. In other words, it was as much about ‘power’ as it was about ‘dignity’. How different do you suppose it could have been if feminism in the Middle Ages didn’t later experience a decline?

What do you think?

I’ll suggest going much earlier than the Middle Ages. In the Roman Empire, the mortality rate for childbearing women was sky-high… just think about an age before modern antibiotics, C-sections, or episiotomies. The early Church offered a way out of the “Russian Roulette” of childbearing… there were consecrated orders of virgins and widows, which flew in the face the Roman imperial laws that placed punitive taxes and penalties on anyone who didn’t reproduce. In the Roman Empire, Christian women were statistically much more likely than pagan women to reach the age of 18 before getting married. And these unwed Christian women had the opportunity to study and do charitable works, opportunities generally lost to the pagan women around them.

Feminism is a good thing, plain and simple. As I understand it, “Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.” I totally stand by that notion. The Roman empire didn’t trust women to make choices about money, politics, childbearing… it had rules that they had to follow. The Church offered freedom and choice. The Church fundamentally affirmed the dignity and worth of every woman, not just the means to a reproductive end – as the Roman empire saw the woman. Only rich women had the resources to escape the pressure to get pregnant ASAP.

This is the kind of alternative I think the Church should be offering today. Affirming our love, and the love of God, for each and every woman in the world.

 

[Jerurussia]

“Sin of Adam.” Read the Bible carefully. Original Sin is called the “Sin of Adam.” When pop cultures, Medieval or modern, popularly attribute Original Sin to The Woman, the status of women declines. It’s the “Sin of Adam” and the reason males only, from Cain & Abel, to Noah, to Abraham & Melchizedek, to the present priesthood, is male-only, to atone for the gender-linked “Sin of Adam.” Genesis 3:15 is God’s grant of power and authority to The Woman, fulfilled in the Virgin Mary; and through her to her Seed, a collective term fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the Church as the Body of Christ.

The feminist movement of Judeo-Christianity was stymied by corrosive pop culture, not orthodox belief, and Savinah Teubal reveals in her research that Genesis 3:15 was universally adopted by all cultures, who adopted marriage with women owning and managing all property as aided by her husband. But this was overthrown by those who threw down the landmarks of land inherited through The Woman, enslaving orthodox males, turning women into prostitutes and killing their children, precisely what Satan would do in the perpetual enmity of Satan & Minions versus the Woman & Seed. This is the war of Genesis 3:15 against Woman & Seed, continuing today. God rebalanced the woman-heavy rights and responsibilities with Sarah & Abraham. Under the old system inspired by Genesis 3:15 Sarah & Abraham were not considered brother and sister as having different moms! Today to be Jewish one looks to the mother, not daddy. Through Sarah, not Hagar HINT! HINT! the woman of promise and the man of promise bore the child of promise. This wasn’t just Abraham’s role alone or Sarah’s role alone; and the Hagar monkey wrench halts any suggestion this was Abraham’s role alone. The king system was foreign to God’s elect as God warned the prophet Samuel, who pleaded they reject this pop movement. And the rule by a strong man was and is toxic to women, and a cultural novelty in the scheme of things. Native American men, for example, would never go to war without consulting the elder women who had the final say-so. Why were men’s bones thrown into a charnel house and women’s only respectfully entombed at Machu Pichu? The old system became overly women-oriented and the inimical king system definitely corroded the role of The Woman & Seed. God is the balancer. And God wishes to establish in the world devotion to the Immaculate Heart.

In the ancient world The Woman was called the EN, woman of grace, and this is fulfilled in the Virgin Mary, Full of Grace. So why aren’t Catholics heeding she who is Full of Grace in her Fatima requests for worldwide devotion to her Immaculate Heart? I’m talking to each and every person who claims to “hear and obey” God whether the requests of Fatima are formally demanded of us by the Church, which they are not. Why not the Virgin Mary? Why Gloria Steinem, CIA operative, who alienated the pro-life feminism of Susan B. Anthony, abortion foe who outlawed abortion with the A.M.A Why this abortion-only feminism? Why abortion-only Democrats? Will we not admit we were manipulated and tricked? Why not the Virgin Mary? Why not the Immaculate Heart? Why not the daily Rosary for peace as requested at Fatima? Why do we today marginalize The Woman & Seed with our hard hearts? Here’s Gloria Steinem’s her-story…As for me and my house, we chose life.

namebase.org/foia/festival.html