Did Constantine start the Catholic Church?

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That’s a myth. Constantine was not an Arian. The bishop that baptized him had sympathy for Arianism but Constantine wasn’t a believer in Arianism. The council he called voted that Arianism was a heresy.

See my post here
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13145357&postcount=3

And an article that specifically debukes this myth here
johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/05/was-constantine-great-baptized-arian.html
This article doesn’t debuke the reality that Constantine was baptized by Eusebius of Nicodemia in arian faith and against the “homousios” dogma of the Catholic Church. He persecuted catholic-trinitarian bishops like Athanasius of Alexandria. Marcellus of Ancyra or Eustathius of Antioch. His mentor, Eusebius of Nicodemia was the instigator.

See you my posts here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12146273&postcount=707

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12151842&postcount=729

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12155295&postcount=742
 
I read the three books of “The Byzantinam” about 14 years ago, but from what I recall, Constantine didn’t really start the Eastern Catholic Church, but he sure helped mold it, and spread it. He helped keep the whole thing alive during the multiple sackings of Rome in the West.
 
Sorry, BartholomewB, the statement above is incorrect. Nicene Christianity became the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in AD 380, when Emperor Theodosius I made it the Empire’s sole authorized religion. Unlike Constantine I, who with the Edict of Milan of 313 AD had established tolerance for Christianity without placing it above other religions.
No. That is an oversimplification. The Edict of Thessalonica was a further development of the process initiated by Constantine. A law issued in 341 by Constantine’s son Constantius ordered that “superstition shall cease and the madnesses of sacrifices shall be abolished,” and laid down penalities for “whoever, contrary to the law of the late Emperor, my father, and this my command, dares to celebrate sacrifices.”
 
This article doesn’t debuke the reality that Constantine was baptized by Eusebius of Nicodemia in arian faith and against the “homousios” dogma of the Catholic Church. He persecuted catholic-trinitarian bishops like Athanasius of Alexandria. Marcellus of Ancyra or Eustathius of Antioch. His mentor, Eusebius of Nicodemia was the instigator.
Eusebius of Nicodemia signed the concordia of Nicea in doing so he promised to teach the true faith not Arianism. Eusebius was a politician. Much of what he did was rooted in politics, not necessarily faith. Eusebius had never posed as an Arian. Anyway, when Constantine was baptized Eusebius was a Catholic bishop and baptized Constantine as a Catholic.
 
And what did the church look like before 312 AD?
I got your answer right here. What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?

And as for your first question, (which is a common anti-Catholic assertion without any historical basis in fact) I suggest you check out my other blog article called THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE

You’re in the right place to get good answers. Here are two more very relevant links that should help you get the facts. Keep seeking the truth and we’ll save you a place at Mass. 😃
Constantine Has Been Beaten to Death
Did the Emperor Constantine found the Catholic Church?
 
I got your answer right here. What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?

And as for your first question, (which is a common anti-Catholic assertion without any historical basis in fact) I suggest you check out my other blog article called THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE

You’re in the right place to get good answers. Here are two more very relevant links that should help you get the facts. Keep seeking the truth and we’ll save you a place at Mass. 😃
Constantine Has Been Beaten to Death
Did the Emperor Constantine found the Catholic Church?
😉
 
Eusebius of Nicodemia signed the concordia of Nicea in doing so he promised to teach the true faith not Arianism. Eusebius was a politician. Much of what he did was rooted in politics, not necessarily faith. Eusebius had never posed as an Arian. Anyway, when Constantine was baptized Eusebius was a Catholic bishop and baptized Constantine as a Catholic.
By the way, we are not sure if Eusebius of Nicodemia did in fact baptize Constantine. That is still under debate.
 
The Edict of Milan not only made it not-illegal to be Christian, it but made it not-illegal to be a follower of any religion. It also restored confiscated property to Christians, whether it had been owned privately or as “church” property.
When I, Constantine Augustus, as well as I Licinius Augustus d fortunately met near Mediolanurn (Milan), and were considering everything that pertained to the public welfare and security, we thought -, among other things which we saw would be for the good of many, those regulations pertaining to the reverence of the Divinity ought certainly to be made first, so that we might grant to the Christians and others full authority to observe that religion which each preferred; whence any Divinity whatsoever in the seat of the heavens may be propitious and kindly disposed to us and all who are placed under our rule. And thus by this wholesome counsel and most upright provision we thought to arrange that **no one whatsoever should be denied the opportunity to give his heart to the observance of the Christian religion, of that religion which he should think best for himself, **so that the Supreme Deity, to whose worship we freely yield our hearts) may show in all things His usual favor and benevolence. Therefore, your Worship should know that it has pleased us to remove all conditions whatsoever, which were in the rescripts formerly given to you officially, concerning the Christians and now any one of these who wishes to observe Christian religion may do so freely and openly, without molestation. We thought it fit to commend these things most fully to your care that you may know that we have given to those Christians free and unrestricted opportunity of religious worship. When you see that this has been granted to them by us, your Worship will know that **we have also conceded to other religions the right of open and free observance of their worship **for the sake of the peace of our times, that each one may have the free opportunity to worship as he pleases ; this regulation is made we that we may not seem to detract from any dignity or any religion.
Moreover, in the case of the Christians especially we esteemed it best to order that if it happens anyone heretofore has bought from our treasury from anyone whatsoever, those places where they were previously accustomed to assemble, concerning which a certain decree had been made and a letter sent to you officially, the same shall be restored to the Christians without payment or any claim of recompense and without any kind of fraud or deception. Those, moreover, who have obtained the same by gift, are likewise to return them at once to the Christians. Besides, both those who have purchased and those who have secured them by gift, are to appeal to the vicar if they seek any recompense from our bounty, that they may be cared for through our clemency. All this property ought to be delivered at once to the community of the Christians through your intercession, and without delay. And since these Christians are known to have possessed not only those places in which they were accustomed to assemble, but also other property, namely the churches, belonging to them as a corporation and not as individuals, all these things which we have included under the above law, you will order to be restored, without any hesitation or controversy at all, to these Christians, that is to say to the corporations and their conventicles: providing, of course, that the above arrangements be followed so that those who return the same without payment, as we have said, may hope for an indemnity from our bounty. In all these circumstances you ought to tender your most efficacious intervention to the community of the Christians, that our command may be carried into effect as quickly as possible, whereby, moreover, through our clemency, public order may be secured. Let this be done so that, as we have said above. Divine favor towards us, which, under the most important circumstances we have already experienced, may, for all time, preserve and prosper our successes together with the good of the state. Moreover, in order that the statement of this decree of our good will may come to the notice of all, this rescript, published by your decree, shall be announced everywhere and brought to the knowledge of all, so that the decree of this, our benevolence, cannot be concealed.
 
Jesus Christ did.

He then charged Peter to feed and tend His lambs and sheep (we are the lambs and sheep) in John 21:15-17

Apostolic Succession followed, other bishops took Peter’s place, and we STILL have the Church today. If you don’t know, GotQuestions; Catholic is a fancy word for “Universal”. Christ’s UNIVERSAL Church has been here on Earth since AD 33.

God bless, GotQuestions.
 
Eusebius had never posed as an Arian. Anyway, when Constantine was baptized Eusebius was a Catholic bishop and baptized Constantine as a Catholic.
I doubt this. In Nicaea arian bishops could sign the concordia for convenience and fear to exile, but this was early in 325 AD. But Eusebius of Nicodemia after his exile and after recovering Constantine’s grace showed his real face persecuting his catholic enemies in Nicaea (trinitarian bishops). This happened around '30’s, from 330 to 337 AD (Constantine baptism and death). Eusebius of Nicodemia was an arian bishop, not catholic, sorry but this is an irrefutable fact. And he baptized Constantine as arian because Eusebius was a tenacious persecutor of the Catholic Church and its trinitarian faith. I gave you the name of at least three catholic bishops persecuted and condemned by Eusebius (read my messages). Eusthasius in 330, Athanasius in 335 and Marcellus in 336 (there were others less eminent). Let’s remember that those God’s servers (trinitarian catholic theologians) were exiled by false charges instigated by Eusebius.
 
I doubt this. In Nicaea arian bishops could sign the concordia for convenience and fear to exile, but this was early in 325 AD. But Eusebius of Nicodemia after his exile and after recovering Constantine’s grace showed his real face persecuting his catholic enemies in Nicaea (trinitarian bishops). This happened around '30’s, from 330 to 337 AD (Constantine baptism and death). Eusebius of Nicodemia was an arian bishop, not catholic, sorry but this is an irrefutable fact. And he baptized Constantine as arian because Eusebius was a tenacious persecutor of the Catholic Church and its trinitarian faith. I gave you the name of at least three catholic bishops persecuted and condemned by Eusebius (read my messages). Eusthasius in 330, Athanasius in 335 and Marcellus in 336 (there were others less eminent). Let’s remember that those God’s servers (trinitarian catholic theologians) were exiled by false charges instigated by Eusebius.
Can you please quote your sources?
Thanks.

 
He may have saved it-he certainly gave it its present day structure ( The roman catholic Church and to some extent the Episcopal and Lutheran Church)

Jesus Christ founded the Church -He likely never said the word Bishop-Presbyter or Pope for that matter-if the Lord did it is not recorded:thumbsup:
 
And what did the church look like before 312 AD?
No, Constantine did not start the Church. However, he did make a significant contribution to it. Before him, Christianity was illegal. When he legalized it, not only did he make it easier for church prelates, etc. to meet and govern their churches, but he also sponsored and facilitated councils and whatnot. The synodial and conciliar practices of the Church had already long existed, but Constantine’s contributions and aids helped lead to the practice becoming more regular and standardized.
 
And what did the church look like before 312 AD?
Joe 5859;13145331:
The same as it did after.
The persecuted Church was an underground Church prior. Worship was much more public after. Records could be kept without getting you killed.

The hierarchy became deeper with multiple layers of management whereas the persecuted Church had a very flat, broad hierarchy.

Deacons became very powerful as keepers of Church property. A persecuted Church did not own much property.

-Tim-
 
He may have saved it-he certainly gave it its present day structure ( The roman catholic Church and to some extent the Episcopal and Lutheran Church)

Jesus Christ founded the Church -He likely never said the word Bishop-Presbyter or Pope for that matter-if the Lord did it is not recorded:thumbsup:
πρεσβυτερου = Presbiter is found in I Timothy 5:19 and the word priest is plastered all over both the OT and NT.

Bishop = Apostle or those appointed by Apostles to lead a see.

Pope just means Father as Peter was commanded by Jesus in John 21:15
21:15 Then, when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
21:16 He said to him again: “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
21:17 He said to him a third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was very grieved that he had asked him a third time, “Do you love me?” And so he said to him: “Lord, you know all things. You know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my sheep.
Hence your assertion that somehow the emperor Constantine gave the Church it’s hierarchy is blatantly false.👍

The hierarchy of the Church WAS instituted BY Jesus HIMSELF whom decided to choose 12 men, anoint them as his Apostles, singled out 1 out of the 12 to be the leader in absence of the King and these 11 men chose a replacement for the missing Apostle by laying of hands and anoint with oil. And when the Church grew to a point that a Bishop (Apostle) needed help proceeded to ordain Presbiters and Deacons to help with the running of the Church.

Oh and by the way JESUS promised HE would protect HIS Church until the end of the world, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. And the Catholic Church is still here today warts and all (I am a wart by the way or one of the many). 😉
 
Can you please quote your sources?
Thanks.

For example you can consult catholic Encyclopedia in newadvent.org.

If you go to this link:

newadvent.org/cathen/05623b.htm

Here is explained all the dirty movements of Eusebius of Nicodemia against Athanasius and the rest of the catholic bishops, defenders of homoousios dogma (trinitarian theology). That’s not strange because his theology is pictured as “pure Arianism”.

It looks that my previous messages have been censured. I don’t understand why because the information that I showed is known and public. It’s sad but I don’t have any interest to continue in this forum.

Saludos
 
The first known mention of the Catholic Church in the written word was by St. Ignatius of Antioch around 107 AD and it was not an introduction. It was mentioned as if people already called it the Catholic Church for some time.

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-were-christians-called-before-st-ignatius-of-antioch-referred-to-them-as-catholi
Yep. Here is the passage.

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

What’s notable about this is a couple things. First, he only mentions the term “Catholic Church” in passing. He never describes what he means by this. So the audience he is writing this letter to must clearly already know what he means by the term. Second, the audience he is writing to is in Smyrna. Ignatius was the bishop of Antioch. They would know OF him, but they wouldn’t be familiar WITH him. So he’s writing this to them, and is completely confident that they know exactly what he means by “Catholic Church”.

For this to be true, the term had to have been in place for years and maybe decades before at a minimum.
 
Prior to 312, Christianity was one religion among many in the Roman Empire and Christians were often persecuted for their refusal to honor the pagan gods. The Church had no official standing in that period. In the course of Constantine’s 25-year reign (312-337), the Church first became officially tolerated, so that Christians became entitled, for the first time, to government protection against their persecutors. At a later stage, Constantine raised Christianity to the status of the official religion of the Empire, replacing the worship of Jupiter, Mars, Venus, and the other gods of antiquity.
The following is speaking of the same reality.

Acts 9:2 belonging to the Way
Acts 11:26 first called Christians
Acts 9:31 the church throughout all (ἐκκλησία,καθ’,ὅλης ,τῆς ) = the Church kata holos = the Catholic Church

As to the explanation of ( ἐκκλησία,καθ’,ὅλης ,τῆς ) = the Catholic Church

see #34 for the history “in writing” properly referenced, of Catholic Church.

For emphasis,

Ignatius was bishop from ~69 a.d. to ~107 a.d. He wrote 6 letters to the Church in 6 locations and one personal letter to Polycarp on his way to Rome to be thrown to the lions.

His letters:
Epistle to the Ephesians
Ignatius
  • was ordained by the apostles
  • wrote as he was taught by the apostles
  • was a direct disciple of St John for almost 40 years.
Constantine legalized Christianity as a religion in the Roman empire. He did NOT start the Catholic Church, Jesus did
 
And what did the church look like before 312 AD?
The fundamentals of Catholic belief and the essentials of Catholic practice were all present before Constantine. Honestly, great changes did occur after the tolerance and legalization of Christianity… BUT none of them have to do with the START of the Catholic Church or the alleged paganization. The changes have to do with public prominence and the Church’s ability to assemble and have it’s own houses of worship.

There is abundant evidence of the early Catholic Church from historical records of the Early Church Fathers, or the first leaders of the churches that the Apostles founded.

Ignatius of Antioch was a student of John the Apostle and was ordained as bishop of the Church at Antioch. In his letters sent to various churches on his way to be martyred in Rome in the early AD 100s, he touched on many basic and fundamentally Catholic topics such as:
  • The REAL PRESENCE of Christ in the Eucharist
  • The hierarchy of Church clergy, including BISHOPS, PRIESTS (Presybyters), DEACONS
  • The necessity to be in communion with the Bishop
  • The prominence of the Bishop of Rome (the POPE) & that Peter was in Rome
  • The divinity of Christ
Other early Church documents exist. The Didache of the first century expresses Christian worship that parallels the Catholic Mass. It also mentions confession of sins in Church.
 
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