Well, in the present day, there is no other method for forgiveness of sin. Today, there is no Holy Temple (and, even if one was constructed on the proper spot, the sacrifices would be meaningless unless the Divine Shechinah resided in said Temple). Also, the sacrifice of Christ (prophesied by the Prophet Isaish) pays for all sin, whereas the Yom Kippur sacrifice and other sins sacrifices were limited in nature.G_D asked the high priest to sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins on the day of atonement.
Yet christians would have us believe that without jesus there was no forgiveness of sins.
Did G_D lie when He said that sins would be forgiven on ‘yom kippur’?
Not necessarily. I’m not sure how you’re interpreting that.Yet christians would have us believe that without jesus there was no forgiveness of sins.
Is there forgiveness without the death of jesus?Not necessarily. I’m not sure how you’re interpreting that.
I would say so. If there weren’t, God would have indeed lied to the Jews. I agree with you. Christ’s death on the Cross goes much deeper than simply the forgiveness of sins - as a Catholic, I in no way disparage Our Lord’s vicarious and atoning death.Is there forgiveness without the death of jesus?
Then what necessity is there for the death of jesus?I would say so.
The death of Christ is a culmination of the sins of humanity, a Grace. It’s an outward sign of the pain of sin. Christ died for our sins, because of our sins, yes. God knew this would happen. Christ’s vicarious and atoning death is the culmination of His message - that we are not alone, that our sin is very real, for here He hung on a Cross, God Himself the visible Victim of sin, showing us the disgusting nature of sin, and calling us to a higher life. Christ’s death on the Cross is the ultimate sign of Love, and I truly believe we can understand our entire Catholicity through His death on the Cross.Then what necessity is there for the death of jesus?
If we look at the question solely without involving the Jews? Well, lets see : If Jesus didn’t die for our sins on the cross, then we would still have to live by the rules of the Old Testament to atone for our sins.Is there forgiveness without the death of jesus?
Jesus teaches us how to live each moment of life to its fullest.Then what necessity is there for the death of jesus?
Jesus’ death is not confined to forgiveness of sins, as if God cannot do otherwise. There are many reasons , He died to prove how much we are important to Him, how much He loves us, how much He is serious about us that He even accepted death to prove it, how much we must love in return, trust in Him the resurrection and life ecc…there is no one side of the coin to what Jesus did but many things combined leading all to what is best for us.Then what necessity is there for the death of jesus?
Amen.Jesus’ death is not confined to forgiveness of sins, as if God cannot do otherwise. There are many reasons , He died to prove how much we are important to Him, how much He loves us, how much He is serious about us that He even accepted death to prove it, how much we must love in return, trust in Him the resurrection and life ecc…there is no one side of the coin to what Jesus did but many things combined leading all to what is best for us.
Hebrews 10:1-14: For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.G_D asked the high priest to sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins on the day of atonement.
Yet christians would have us believe that without jesus there was no forgiveness of sins.
Did G_D lie when He said that sins would be forgiven on ‘yom kippur’?
no, Jesus’ death is a fact we cannot deny/neglect/reject. We cannot believe in Jesus and disbelieve that He died for us at the same time. Belief in Jesus is belief in everything He said and did. For this reason we are called Christians.However you just invalidated your church’s core teaching.
That Jesus’ death was eternal, past future and present.
God is outside of time, remember - if He so chose, He could certainly save righteous Jews of the OT in anticipation of Christ’s sacrifice, and cleanse them of their sins through their sacrifices BECAUSE these were a foreshadowing of the His great sacrifice to come. We don’t believe that it was an instantaneous process, however, rather that these people were place in a temporary state of limbo until Christ completed the process of their salvation by His sacrifice.Sorry that was mis typed, I meant that jesus is the eternal sacrifice.
Yet the sacrifices in the Torah also cleaned all the sins of the jewish nation
Vayikra 16:30
I am truly stupified. You guys are telling me there is no compelling reason to be catholic, because salvation is still possible without accepting the death of jesus as payment for my sins.
Jesus was a great teacher and I consider myself a follower of jesus.
However you just invalidated your church’s core teaching.
No, we didn’t. If one knows the Catholic Church is true and is compelled by conscience, the Holy Spirit, to obedience of the Holy Church, and one denies this, one will go to hell. Plain and simple. To willingly deny the truth is a mortal sin. There’s no “invalidation” of Catholicism here. Catholicism is a deep, simple yet complex religion, an ocean of truth that should be explored to be understood.That Jesus’ death was eternal, past future and present.