Did God become man???

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Did God Become Man?

The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “… through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.” [Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.

All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.

So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self-contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator.

If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms.

The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God Become Man - Dr A.B Philips
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
Did God Become Man?

The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “… through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.” [Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.

All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.

So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self-contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator.

If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms.

The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God Become Man - Dr A.B Philips
Click to expand...
God is the uncreated Creator of all things. We agree on that.

However Christianity states that God the Son took on human flesh, for a season only, to identify with His creature Man, and for a specific purpose.

This boils down to the the concept of the Trinity. You are made in God’s image, and you yourself are a trinity, of body, mind and soul. WIthout all three, you would be incomplete.

I had the peculiar experience of my father turning up in my bedroom the night he died. I suppose you could say he looked a bit like a ghost. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream, and disappeared. I believe he’s in Hell.

However his dead body was lying in his flat several kilometres away. But he could obviously still think, talk, remember and even see into the future if certain future events he predicted were accurate (a couple have already happened).

But because he no longer had a body, he could not do anything in the physical sense. Had he wanted to hit me in anger, he’d have been unable to. He was no longer fully human, because one part of his human trinity was dead. And since he was unlikely to go to heaven and be given a new body, then that was that.

You’re a trinity, and you’re made in God’s image, because you’re human. That tells us something about God, all by itself.

Christ said of Himself, “Before Abraham was, I am”. That’s a clear statement of divinity. But He also said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father” , “I will send you the Holy Spirit” and “The Son can do nothing without the Father, and the Father can do nothing without the Son”.

In other words, God is a Trinity, eternal, uncreated, but co-existent, and each Person so completely immersed in each other that they always act unanimously. The reason is so that God can see His Love reflected at all times.

I have no problem with it. After all you are a little trinity yourself. One day your body will die, but your other two components, mind and soul, will continue to exist. To be complete again, you’ll need a new body, and that will be a gift from the same eternal source that gave you the body you’ve got now.

And then you will refect once again God’s trinitarian nature in your glorified humanity.

He’d already given you a hint about Himself, in your very own trinitarian nature.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
God is the uncreated Creator of all things. We agree on that.

However Christianity states that God the Son took on human flesh, for a season only, to identify with His creature Man, and for a specific purpose.

This boils down to the the concept of the Trinity. You are made in God’s image, and you yourself are a trinity, of body, mind and soul. WIthout all three, you would be incomplete.

I had the peculiar experience of my father turning up in my bedroom the night he died. I suppose you could say he looked a bit like a ghost. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream, and disappeared. I believe he’s in Hell.

However his dead body was lying in his flat several kilometres away. But he could obviously still think, talk, remember and even see into the future if certain future events he predicted were accurate (a couple have already happened).

But because he no longer had a body, he could not do anything in the physical sense. Had he wanted to hit me in anger, he’d have been unable to. He was no longer fully human, because one part of his human trinity was dead. And since he was unlikely to go to heaven and be given a new body, then that was that.

You’re a trinity, and you’re made in God’s image, because you’re human. That tells us something about God, all by itself.

Christ said of Himself, “Before Abraham was, I am”. That’s a clear statement of divinity. But He also said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father” , “I will send you the Holy Spirit” and “The Son can do nothing without the Father, and the Father can do nothing without the Son”.

In other words, God is a Trinity, eternal, uncreated, but co-existent, and each Person so completely immersed in each other that they always act unanimously. The reason is so that God can see His Love reflected at all times.

I have no problem with it. After all you are a little trinity yourself. One day your body will die, but your other two components, mind and soul, will continue to exist. To be complete again, you’ll need a new body, and that will be a gift from the same eternal source that gave you the body you’ve got now.

And then you will refect once again God’s trinitarian nature in your glorified humanity.

He’d already given you a hint about Himself, in your very own trinitarian nature.
Click to expand...
Or to put it another way, why do you think THREE “men” turned up to talk to Abraham at the tree of Mamre? Who do you think they were? I know who I think they represented.
 
That’s not the real question.

God DID become man.

The REAL question is why do YOU follow a religion started by a pedophile who was deceived by an inferior demon?
 
bpbasilphx said:
That’s not the real question.

God DID become man.

The REAL question is why do YOU follow a religion started by a pedophile who was deceived by an inferior demon?
Click to expand...
Freshly coming from a Baptist board where horrible things were said, I would plead that we do not fall into that same type of conversation. Please, please please…let the world know us by our works…and words.

To answer the question, yes, God became man.

Peace and all good things
 
For you to deny that God could become man, is to deny that God is in fact, Omnipotent.
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
…

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity

…
Click to expand...
It’s a mystery, not an absurdity.

And it’s fulfilled prophecy. A thousand years before Jesus was born, we were told that a virgin will become pregnant and it will be a sign that God is with us (Isaiah 7:14).

God becoming man is no more absurd than muslims denying the crucifixion of Christ.
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
Did God Become Man?

The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “… through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.” [Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.

All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.

So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self-contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator.

If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms.

The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God Become Man - Dr A.B Philips
Click to expand...
Simply put, your statement “The question which remains is Did God become Man?” is actually that there is nothing remaining. We know that God became man. You are thinking as a human with human limitations and fallibilities, and you are putting limits on God’s infinite power. God can do whatever He wills.
 
To die does not mean “coming to an end.” Dying is the ending of the existence of the created form in which a soul resides. If one uses this definition of death, God very much can become man.

Now, to turn the question, if God cannot do that which is against his nature (which I agree), can God lie?
 
ralphinal said:
To die does not mean “coming to an end.” Dying is the ending of the existence of the created form in which a soul resides. If one uses this definition of death, God very much can become man.

Now, to turn the question, if God cannot do that which is against his nature (which I agree), can God lie?
Click to expand...
A Lion of Islam does not believe God can lie. From another thread he/she posted:

"Subhanallah, God does not lie… it is something God cant do… "

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=415191&page=5

Post #65
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
Did God Become Man?

The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “… through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.” [Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.

All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.

So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self-contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator.

If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms.

The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God Become Man - Dr A.B Philips
Click to expand...
ohhhhh, Billal Phillips, now coming to think I think he too is from the same pool of Zakir Naik and Ahmed deedat. Well anyway, could you tell me what according to you is allah? pls dont compare allah to God as Malaysia is already showing us that its not the case. So lets see what is allah? Even muslims when they write a translation as has been shown in some other forums put God in the bracket, but allah is always there.

What does allah do? Does he designate humans to do his activities? like punishing others which too has been noticed?
 
Dr. A.B. Philips shows, unfortunately, that he does not understand the concept of the Incarnation nor the Trinity.

He says, The phrase “God is able to do all things”…cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. This is going by the false idea that at the Incarnation Christ was fully God. This wasn’t the case. The Eternal Word did not cease being Deity, for He maintained His Deity. At the same time, He took on a full human nature and will. This was the hypostatic union: Christ was fully man and fully God. Therefore He maintained His Deity through His Divine natures and wills, but He could eat, sleep, grow, etc through His human nature and will.

He states, To ask if [God] can die is actually a nonsensical question. Christians do not say that God, as in the Being of God, died on the Cross, but that Christ, the full man and full God, or God-Man (which is a bad translation of a Greek phrase), died on the cross. As a human being Christ died, but He did not cease being God. Again, Philips does not seem to understand the hypostatic union.

He says, If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. This isn’t what happened at the Incarnation. God did not “create Himself,” because to do this suggests that God did not exist beforehand, which Philips brings up but which I do not think he fully understands. What happened was God the Eternal Word entered into creation by taking on flesh (John 1:14). He did not create Himself, the Word, but He did take on a flesh. Philips seems to not understand that the Word took on a humanity while maintaining His deity - He did not create His deity.

He says, Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. This is actually Arianism, which taught that Christ was a Divine Being created at the Incarnation. This is not the case - for “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). We know that God the Word existed before the Incarnation.

He concludes, The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. This is arguing by presupposition, basing it off the false assumption that the Incarnation equaled the creation of God as well.

Dr. Philips attempts to respond to the idea of the Incarnation through a semi-philosophic point of view. The problem is that he ignores what Christians really believe and bases his conclusion solely on his presuppositions.
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
Did God Become Man?
Click to expand...
Yes. The Holy Bible tells us in the Gospel of John “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” and “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
 
Ignatius said:
Yes. The Holy Bible tells us in the Gospel of John “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” and “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
Click to expand...
Amen 👍
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
Did God Become Man?

The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “… through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.” [Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.

All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.

So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self-contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity

The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator.

If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms.

The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God Become Man - Dr A.B Philips
Click to expand...
this is what you get when assumptions that meat presuppositions and bread to give birth to strawmen!

Could God create a rock so big He couldnt lift it? We know from Einstein that mass distorts time, a rock big enough for the challenge would be infinitely large and would cause an infinite distortion of time. therefor even if God could lift it He wouldnt have the time.:thankyou:
 
Man is made in the image of God.

He thinks, reason, has free will, subdues the wilds of the earth, plants, cultivates, develops the land…

Islam is the religion of the desert, of nomads, of finding God in harsh terrain…very different…but still all men are people of religion, seeking God, praying, thinking, observing, choosing…

Do not value man less than what God values in us.

If Islam is not founded on love, then we human beings have no purpose or meaning…

You have to go back to your own studies and re-consider what it means to be a human being.

The more people fall away from humanity and become more and more religious focusing only on God, the more susceptible they are in being inhumane to their fellow human beings, finding no commonality in them…and this is one of the great flaws of Islam is that it is blind in recognizing the presence of true religion in people, and the cause for endless wars and hatred.
 
A_Lion_Of_Islam said:
Did God Become Man?

The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.”
Click to expand...
🤷 In Quran Allah spoke with Moses through “The Fire” (Quran 20:10-13),

So why you want to restrict God from speaking through a “Sinless Human Body” which is greater than the fire !!! :mad:
 
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