Did God blame satan for Adam and Eves sin?

[MarthaSo]

As far as the examples you gave, I only meant some sins not all.

Do you think by God asking Eve why’d she do it and after she told God satan told her to, when God accused satan of doing THIS (“this” meaning her sin) since He proclaimed it was satans doing immediately after she confessed it…that God was not blaming satan at all for her choice? Assigning satan culpability for her sin? I think He is.
Does it not sound possible that God told satan it was his fault they sinned when he clearly said “you did THIS?” Adam and Eve are not separated from the word THIS. The THIS is the sin of Adam ad Eve that God just finished punishing satan for.

And if you agree with that, how do you reconcile 100% ownership of ALL sins vs sometimes we’re to blame for someone else’s sin just like God told satan he was?

That’s really the only matter under discussion as far as I can see. If there is closure on that then perhaps it can then be translated to other scenarios.

 

[Lea101]

I only meant some sins not all.

Why some sins and not all though? I’m curious about your guidelines. We technically get tempted everyday by Satan.

‘this’ was in reference to Satan deceiving Eve. That’s the sin. He asked Eve why she gave it to Adam, and she said because Satan deceived her. Because he tricked Eve (and Adam in a sense), he was punished. His sin was not dependent on whether Eve listens or not. He deliberately attempted to make someone disobey God

As for fault, it’s Adam and Eve’s fault for disobeying God. They had a choice.

And if you agree with that, how do you reconcile 100% ownership of ALL sins vs sometimes we’re to blame for someone else’s sin just like God told satan he was?

So I don’t agree that Satan is to be blamed for Adam and Eve’s sin but rather, to be blamed for deceiving (and hence, Adam and Eve are responsible for their own sin).

People make the choice to sin. They can be tempted, but it’s their choice for sinning. Discussions about culpability usually revolves around mental illnesses and coercion because it affects their ability to make a choice (basically they are unable to use their free will).

It’s also interesting how instead of begging forgiveness they hid and then didn’t accept responsibility.

It is pretty sad that we are still Adam and Eve, blaming others.

 

[MarthaSo]

I do understand your point better now in fact, however I believe the verse shows God blaming satan both for deceiving as well as for their sin as I don’t see why not both.

As for your last comment about how sad it is is that I’m still Adam and Eve blaming others…it’s disconcerting as you make it sound like I have some agenda to blame others when I’m really trying to understand a verse our God said related to this matter in a genuine way. I respectfully disagree with you and will no longer converse with you on this topic. But thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Wesrock]

I feel like way too much emphasis is being placed on the “this.” Even putting aside all theology, it could easily refer to him doing the tempting, not Eve eating the apple.

 

[MarthaSo]

Yes it sure could but my point is it might also be their sin he was blaming satan for when he accused him.
And I was trying to figure out if that makes sense too.

also, that’s why I was emphasizing it so much because I kind of wanted to hone in on that particular possibility as some are saying it’s an impossibility.

 

[Godfollower]

Do you think by God asking Eve why’d she do it and after she told God satan told her to, when God accused satan of doing THIS (“this” meaning her sin) since He proclaimed it was satans doing immediately after she confessed it…that God was not blaming satan at all for her choice? Assigning satan culpability for her sin? I think He is.

This is where I think we’re disconnecting. I don’t think “this” means Eve’s sin. That would be “Because Adam and Eve have eaten the fruit.” I take it as “Because you have done this” = “Because you have tempted Adam and Eve.” His sin (“this”) was the tempting. Their sin was the eating.

 

[MarthaSo]

Thank you for following what I’m saying! My point Godfollower is just wondering if there is a possibility that this verse is God blaming satan for both the temping and their action and not just the one.
Can we know for certain God is not blaming satan for their action as well.

 

[Lea101]

As for your last comment about how sad it is is that I’m still Adam and Eve blaming others…it’s disconcerting as you make it sound like I have some agenda to blame others…

I said ‘we’…? It’s true. Since the fall we have been blaming everyone

God blaming satan both for deceiving as well as for their sin as I don’t see why not both.

Why both though? Why would someone else’s sin be ‘transferred’ to us.

I’m going to go back to the modesty thing because that was how the conversation started so forgive me lol. So if I wear a short skirt and a guy lusted, why am I guilty for immodesty + his lust and not just immodesty? I didn’t lust. Would the sin of immodesty already address the fact that my sin tempted someone else to fall?

And if I wear a short skirt to tempt ten men, but only 3 got tempted, would I be responsible for immodesty + 3 men’s lust? Their sins cannot be controlled by me, I can only control myself (in this case, I have control over my bad intentions of seducing) and hence, I can only be held accountable for my actions.

We do have a duty to help each other to heaven but that doesn’t mean that we are going to be held responsible for a sin we didn’t carry out.

 

[Lea101]

I guess the question is why must there be a ‘as well’ (I won’t repeat myself because I just talked about it a couple of mins ago)

But as far as I know, Catholics don’t believe in the whole transferring of sin (our sin is basically the things we choose to do rather than it being dependent on someone’s choice to sin or not), and has always emphasized on personal responsibility.

Someone who got bored and imagined sex and someone who started imagining sex with that hot woman sunbathing would be equally responsible because both deliberately seeked out lust. The former didn’t sin more. The latter was tempted but the same sin and responsibility is there to be honest.

 

[Godfollower]

Thank you for following what I’m saying! My point Godfollower is just wondering if there is a possibility that this verse is God blaming satan for both the temping and their action and not just the one.
Can we know for certain God is not blaming satan for their action.

My thought is that the sin he’s guilty of committing is the tempting; but the gravity of the offense includes the sin he successfully caused to happen.

Here’s an analogy: let’s say you and I conspire to burgle a house. You’re breaking in and stealing the stuff; I give you the burglar alarm code, and I’m preparing to hold the stuff, fence it, and split up the proceeds. You get caught midcrime, so the only crime I actually commit is the conspiracy. If you were caught as you were breaking in, I might only face a few months in jail. If you were caught inside the house and killed the occupants trying to escape, I’ll face years or decades in prison, because the crime I committed (conspiracy) had graver consequences (death of innocent victims). I didn’t kill them, but I’m criminally responsible because my crime led to the injury.

Satan committed the sin of tempting. But the particular sin he tempted into happening was, you know, rather significant. So the gravity of his sin was very high.

Am I making sense, or am I babbling?

 

[MarthaSo]

It makes sense and thank you for the analogy. I just feel that when scripture tells us that we cause our brother to stumble it sounds like it is saying we can “cause” our brother to sin. I’m trying to see how I can translate that into meaning that although I grant I’m responsible for my sin, based on the passage, the tempter is absolutely not in any way culpable for my sin.
It doesn’t add up for me and I think I will take a break from this topic for a bit but I thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut! God bless everyone.

 

[Lea101]

I do get your analogy although I admit I don’t know if God works the same way as the legal system (in this analogy obviously). I think this is where we would have to whip out some books because I feel like theologians have discussed this before.

However I don’t know if this analogy would be appropriate when we are discussing about original sin because I’m not sure if the same thing would have happened if they committed another sin. I may be wrong but I was taught that any sin Adam and Eve would have committed would have caused The Fall. Also if we are talking about modesty this analogy would be a little alarming, because is her gravity of her sin dependent on whether he lusted, catcalled or raped?

I feel like I could be reaching, lol but I think this analogy does make sense when we are talking about a sin that harms others.