Did God Create Evil

[Leela]

If this request is made with the assumption that human evil is proof that our ancestors consumed magical fruit after having been convinced to do so by a talking snake; then I suggest that you are not entitled to an astute response.

Did Eve know that it was wrong to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? If so, it seems to me that she already had knowledge of good and evil.

 

[fhansen]

Did Eve know that it was wrong to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? If so, it seems to me that she already had knowledge of good and evil.

**Knowing a law or commandment is not the same as knowing evil. Evil is the breaking of the law. The first evil Eve knew was her own act of disobedience of God, any act outside of Gods’ will considered to be evil as He’s the creator of all that we know, which would include Eves’ own nature. From there, humans were to continue to know or experience evil (sin) as their will to be free from Gods’ will was allowed to be the rule.

 

[Leela]

**Knowing a law or commandment is not the same as knowing evil. Evil is the breaking of the law. The first evil Eve knew was her own act of disobedience of God, any act outside of Gods’ will considered to be evil as He’s the creator of all that we know, which would include Eves’ own nature. From there, humans were to continue to know or experience evil (sin) as their *will to be free from Gods’ will ***was allowed to be the rule.

She knew what the commandment was, and she knew she could do otherwise but that it was wrong to do so, so whe already knew right from wrong.

Why did God put the tree there, anyway? It all seems like a set up, doesn’t it?

 

[fhansen]

She knew what the commandment was, and she knew she could do otherwise but that it was wrong to do so, so whe already knew right from wrong.

Why did God put the tree there, anyway? It all seems like a set up, doesn’t it?

**From her perspective she had been given Gods’ opinion on what was wrong but obviously didn’t value it enough to not let it override her own desire. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil simply means that humans have freedom and limitations on how they can use that freedom-they have a responsibility to be obedient to God for their own good-for the integrity and harmony of their own natures-ultimately for their own happiness. Eating from the tree was the expression of creation-in the form of humans-thinking it could know better than God. **

 

[Leela]

From her perspective she had been given Gods’ opinion on what was wrong but obviously didn’t value it enough to not let it override her own desire. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil simply means that humans have freedom and limitations on how they can use that freedom-they have a responsibility to be obedient to God for their own good-for the integrity and harmony of their own natures-ultimately for their own happiness. Eating from the tree was the expression of creation-in the form of humans-thinking it could know better than God.

Ok, so Eve did not know it was wrong to disobey God. She couldn’t possibly have known it was wrong to eat the apple before she ate the apple since eating the apple is the onlky way for her to gain knowledge of right and wrong. Then does it seem like justice to you for her to be punished for eating it? If I give a child a bottle of poison and the child does not know any better and drinks it, is it the child’s fault or my fault that the child dies?

 

[fhansen]

Ok, so Eve did not know it was wrong to disobey God. She couldn’t possibly have known it was wrong to eat the apple before she ate the apple since eating the apple is the onlky way for her to gain knowledge of right and wrong. Then does it seem like justice to you for her to be punished for eating it? If I give a child a bottle of poison and the child does not know any better and drinks it, is it the child’s fault or my fault that the child dies?

The outcome of Eve’s -and Adams’-act was the natural consequence of creation distancing itself from gods’ will-God being the source of life-the creator of all that is-the mind within and behind what we know as nature in the broadest sense of the term. If Eve lacked the wisdom to refrain from disobedience, the result-or so-called punishment- of being cast from the garden was not for the purpose of assuaging the wrath of some egotistical deity with delicate sensibilities. God may as well as just wiped out His creation if that was the idea. The goal was always formative in intent; that is, to produce in or elicit from humans the wisdom that knows-by experience gained- that disobedience of God (i.e. living as if there is no God) is counterproductive, disordered and leads to the evils we know alongside of the good inherently existing in this universe. And this “punishment”, BTW, is not such that many would prefer it to the alternative- not existing at all. God always has loved man. Man needs to learn the value of loving God. And this process can’t begin without faith in His existence-the first step in being “found”.

 

[fhansen]

**And this “punishment”, BTW, is not such that many would prefer it to the alternative- not existing at all. **

This should have read, “And this “punishment” [meaning life here on earth], BTW, is not such that many would prefer the alternative-not existing at all.”

 

[SSTeacher]

msugeotech;4962442:

Everything God has created is inherently good. Since evil is not good, it cannot have been “created” by God.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Do you read scripture?

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Regards
DL

I respectfully suggest that an argument based on a particular verse in a particular English translation – in this case, the King James Version – isn’t necessarily conclusive. The word “evil” isn’t present in that verse in other English translations, scil:

Isaiah 45:7 (New King James Version):
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New International Version):
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New Century Version):
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New Living Translation):
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New American Bible on the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website):
I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well–being and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Scripturally,
Mick

 

[Leela]

I respectfully suggest that an argument based on a particular verse in a particular English translation – in this case, the King James Version – isn’t necessarily conclusive. The word “evil” isn’t present in that verse in other English translations, scil:

Isaiah 45:7 (New King James Version):
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New International Version):
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New Century Version):
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New Living Translation):
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (New American Bible on the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website):
I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well–being and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Scripturally,
Mick

The issue isn’t the word “evil.” It seems that you then agree that God creates darkness, calamity, woe, bad times, troubles, and disaster, which is the whole point. God did it, not man. (Also, if all these translations are so different, what does that say about the Bible and our ability to take any meaning at all from it?)

Best,
Leela

 

[fhansen]

The issue isn’t the word “evil.” It seems that you then agree that God creates darkness, calamity, woe, bad times, troubles, and disaster, which is the whole point. God did it, not man. (Also, if all these translations are so different, what does that say about the Bible and our ability to take any meaning at all from it?)

Best,
Leela

And this is why Catholics believe that one of the churchs’ purposes is to interpret scripture and in any case to define Gods’ nature/will to the extent that is possible.

 

[Leela]

And this is why Catholics believe that one of the churchs’ purposes is to interpret scripture and in any case to define Gods’ nature/will to the extent that is possible.

Why are we supposed to believe that only the Church can properly interpret scripture and tell us what God’s will is? The only possible argument is a circular one.

 

[fhansen]

Why are we supposed to believe that only the Church can properly interpret scripture and tell us what God’s will is? The only possible argument is a circular one.

Well, the only valid reason would be because God wanted it that way so we could be guaranteed of understanding His revelation correctly-by having it kept and maintained or protected, so to speak, throughout the centuries.

 

[davidv]

Why are we supposed to believe that only the Church can properly interpret scripture and tell us what God’s will is? The only possible argument is a circular one.

Because “Truth” became a man, and established an institution to proclaim the Good News to all inhabitants of the earth.

The argument is only circular when one dismisses the Truth.

 

[SSTeacher]

The issue isn’t the word “evil.”

Yes it is. Here’s the Original Post:

The question is this: did God create evil? In the creed each Sunday, we proclaim that “We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.” If God is the creator of all things seen and unseen and if evil exists and it can both be seen through the actions of people or unseen, does it follow that God created evil?

If evil isn’t the issue, what is?

It seems that you then agree that God creates darkness, calamity, woe, bad times, troubles, and disaster, which is the whole point. God did it, not man.

I agree. God is indeed the Creator of everything.

(Also, if all these translations are so different, what does that say about the Bible and our ability to take any meaning at all from it?)

I would adduce two reasons as to why the words in English are different in these translations. Firstly, language is continually changing. Secondly, translating is not an exact science. I guess one might reasonably suppose that some translations are weaker in places than others. I think it’s fairly safe to say that God created we humans with differing levels of ability so comprehension will undoubtedly vary from person to person. Beyond that I could only speculate.

Cordially,
Mick

 

[SSTeacher]

severntofall;4967907:

What reason do you have to assert that everything god created is inherently good? It’s a fun catholicky thing to say and it’s easy to say; however, if god created everything and every rule and evil exists then it must have been apart of his plan.

Catholicky? Thats scriptural… Genesis 1:31 “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.” Evil in its nature is the opposite of good, it is devoid of God. If you want to get technical, then yes God created evil. But only insofar as he created good things that were distorted. As I said previously, this distortion is the root of evil. We refer to this action as the fall of man, and also in Catholic doctrine as the fall of Satan and his angels. It was the combination of free will and human imperfection that led to evil in the world. It is the ultimate case of double effect. Please read my previous two posts and try to re-defend your stance.

I guess a clear distinction ought to be made between natural or physical evil i.e. evil brought on by natural causes in the world (such as floods, earthquakes or tornadoes and different sorts of diseases, accidents and injuries) and moral evil, which might be defined as our free will choice to embrace hate, greed, or overindulgence. We see physical evil as evil only when it causes us pain so in a sense we’re using a subjective rather than an objective evaluation. Floods aren’t necessarily evil in themselves – they cause no evil as far as sea creatures as concerned. A tornado is a spectacular and wondrous manifestation of the natural order – just don’t get in its way. And it might even be argued that cancer is a noble growth – it’s just growing in the wrong place. If this perspective is taken evil may be defined as “the wrong relationship between good things that God has created.”

Some people see fit to assign responsibility for these interactions to God and then exercise their free will by accusing God of evil. Fair enough. I have no argument with people exercising their free will to do exactly that. But I choose to give God the benefit of the doubt. I don’t understand what went wrong but I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s very much connected with sin. When sin entered in the world even the natural order got messed up.

That leads to the consideration of moral evil. Well, as far as I can judge moral evil is the same thing as sin. It’s a choice to turn away from God who is good. God cannot create humans with free will – thus allowing for meaningful choices – and at the same time control them so they always choose what is good. There will always be a possibility that humans will choose what is evil. I’ve seen it argued that God created the fact of evil i.e. the possibility of evil but in doing so did not create any act of evil.

And that’s about as far I’ve gotten with this very difficult question.

One of the interesting aspects of this debate is that the good that God has created which is all around us together with the goodness that is evident in many people because they try to follow God by living good lives is often completely overlooked.

Focusing too intently upon evil can easily lead to a loss of perspective about the world and everything that’s in it. How come we so rarely see fit to query why God created good?

Circumspectly,
Mick

 

[Leela]

Focusing too intently upon evil can easily lead to a loss of perspective about the world and everything that’s in it. How come we so rarely see fit to query why God created good?

Because whether God creates good seems to be unquestioned. For example, when a plane crashes in the Hudson and everyone lives, people are quick to say it is a miracle, the work of God. Nonbelievers then begin to wonder what it means when a plane crashes in Buffalo and everyone dies. God seems to get the credit when something good happens but not he blame when something bad happens.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;4988550:

Focusing too intently upon evil can easily lead to a loss of perspective about the world and everything that’s in it. How come we so rarely see fit to query why God created good?

Because whether God creates good seems to be unquestioned. For example, when a plane crashes in the Hudson and everyone lives, people are quick to say it is a miracle, the work of God. Nonbelievers then begin to wonder what it means when a plane crashes in Buffalo and everyone dies. God seems to get the credit when something good happens but not the blame when something bad happens.

Exactly so. Your position seems quite logical. So it seems to me that the only difference between us on this question is that I want to give God the benefit of the doubt and you aren’t so keen to do so. Right?

Inquiringly,
Mick

 

[lemonbeam]

youtube.com/watch?v=CvqWTx8ykzg

 

[SSTeacher]

youtube.com/watch?v=CvqWTx8ykzg

Hi lemonbeam,

I liked the speaker in this 5–minute segment – he comes across as the benevolent avuncular type – so I give him a high mark for presentation. But I don’t feel like awarding a high mark for content because his “answers” just raise more questions particularly as he attempted to use the Book of Job to help to make his case. I don’t think it worked.

Thanks for providing the link, though.

Appreciatively,
Mick

 

[dcastlen50]

Evil like vaccum, cold and darkness is not a thing but the absence of another thing. Evil is the lack of love and goodness, in short the absence of God. When the devil decided he no longer needed his creator is when evil was made. (by removing God)

You got it! Perfect. I was wondering how long it would take before someone would have the truth for this question. Excellent:thumbsup: