Did God Create Himself?

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Since God has been around forever (literally), then doesn’t that mean that God either always existed, or created himself?

If God didn’t create himself, doesn’t that mean the very act of existing is God?
 
GOD is uncreated you have it right in your last sentence.

St. Thomas Aquinas “ipsum esse subsistens” definition of God, HE is the very essence of being.

GOD disclosed this attribute of Himself to Abraham by calling Himself “I AM”.

HE does not change because HE lives in the eternal now. There is no past nor future to HIM.
 
You’ve got it right. The very act of existing by itself is God. God is selfcontained no need of an outside mover. It’s not that God created itself, in us existance is dependent on God. In God existence is God himself.

By the way, if you ever doubt the existence of the Christian God is possible, ask yourself why there is anything at all. We shouldn’t be here, yet we are.
 
Yes, God’s essence is existence.

And not just existence, but the highest form of existence. He can never not be.

If “to be” was a verb which could be conjugated in the manner of degree, such as “good, better, best” or “tall, taller, tallest,” we would have to say that God “be’s” to an infinite extent.
 
I like to say that He is the first cause.
Nothing caused Him.
He has to be outside of time and space in order to be able to create time.
It’s all rather mind-boggling!

I hope you remember this thread of yours when people try to ask you to explain things about God that are NOT explainable! He is infinite, we are finite.

Read Father Spitzer’s books.

Happy RCIA!

Fran
 
God said, “I AM WHO AM”. In other words, God just is; never had a beginning and never will have an end. We think of everything having a beginning because we are in time. God is outside of time and our feeble minds cannot even begin to imagine what eternity is.

There might have been a “BANG” when the universe came into existence but what was it that went BANG? It must have been something; what was it and who placed it there?

Frankly, this is my take on the universe: I read that the farthest galaxy yet discovered is about 13.3 billion light years away. Past that nobody knows. But some astronomers say that there is no end to the universe. We know that God is everywhere and can hold the universe in the palm of His hand. If it was known that the universe was, let’s say 16 billion light years away and it ended there, then men could say that God is only so big and then God would not be forever. God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.
 
I was just reading tonight of St. Gregory of Nyssa on this exact subject (from his letter to Ablabius, on the Holy Trinity):

To say that anything exists without generation sets forth the mode of its existence, but what exists is not indicated by this phrase. If one were to ask a husbandman about a tree, whether it were planted or had grown of itself, and he were to answer either that the tree had not been planted or that it was the result of planting, would he by that answer declare the nature of the tree? Surely not; but while saying how it exists he would leave the question of its nature obscure and unexplained. So, in the other case, when we learn that He is unbegotten, we are taught in what mode He exists, and how it is fit that we should conceive Him as existing, but what He is we do not hear in that phrase. When, therefore, we acknowledge such a distinction in the case of the Holy Trinity, as to believe that one Person is the Cause, and another is of the Cause, we can no longer be accused of confounding the definition of the Persons by the community of nature.

Source
 
brittrossiter said:
I was just reading tonight of St. Gregory of Nyssa on this exact subject (from his letter to Ablabius, on the Holy Trinity):

To say that anything exists without generation sets forth the mode of its existence, but what exists is not indicated by this phrase. If one were to ask a husbandman about a tree, whether it were planted or had grown of itself, and he were to answer either that the tree had not been planted or that it was the result of planting, would he by that answer declare the nature of the tree? Surely not; but while saying how it exists he would leave the question of its nature obscure and unexplained. So, in the other case, when we learn that He is unbegotten, we are taught in what mode He exists, and how it is fit that we should conceive Him as existing, but what He is we do not hear in that phrase. When, therefore, we acknowledge such a distinction in the case of the Holy Trinity, as to believe that one Person is the Cause, and another is of the Cause, we can no longer be accused of confounding the definition of the Persons by the community of nature.

Source
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I’d say that the above reference to Jesus opens up a whole new set of questions.

Which I guess we shouldn’t get into.

God bless
 
I find the title question amusing - ‘Did God create himself’. Nothing can create itself. Since nothing can not do anything, never mind create God. That would be an impossibility. Although, some atheists think the universe could create itself from nothing, you can’t have something coming spontaneously from nothing. It is metaphysically impossible. Something else has to exist to create it. Nothing exists that could create God, except God himself. So he would have to exist first in order to create himself. But, if he already existed why would he need to? 😉
 
Melodeonist said:
If God didn’t create himself, doesn’t that mean the very act of existing is God?
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In the OT God calls himself “I AM”.

"Article 4 I answer that, God is not only His own essence, as shown in the preceding article, but also His own existence. This may be shown in several ways.

First, whatever a thing has besides its essence must be caused either by the constituent principles of that essence (like a property that necessarily accompanies the species–as the faculty of laughing is proper to a man–and is caused by the constituent principles of the species), or by some exterior agent–as heat is caused in water by fire. Therefore, if the existence of a thing differs from its essence, this existence must be caused either by some exterior agent or by its essential principles. Now it is impossible for a thing’s existence to be caused by its essential constituent principles, for nothing can be the sufficient cause of its own existence, if its existence is caused. Therefore that thing, whose existence differs from its essence, must have its existence caused by another. But this cannot be true of God; because we call God the first efficient cause. Therefore it is impossible that in God His existence should differ from His essence."

newadvent.org/summa/1003.htm#article4
 
fisherman_carl said:
I find the title question amusing - ‘Did God create himself’. Nothing can create itself. Since nothing can not do anything, never mind create God. That would be an impossibility. Although, some atheists think the universe could create itself from nothing, you can’t have something coming spontaneously from nothing. It is metaphysically impossible. Something else has to exist to create it. Nothing exists that could create God, except God himself. So he would have to exist first in order to create himself. But, if he already existed why would he need to? 😉
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Atheists might think that the universe could create itself from nothing, but any scientist will tell you that it’s impossible for something to be created out of nothing.

So their problem of where did everything come from is much greater than our problem of how was God created. (not that it’s a problem to me!)

Fran
 
frangiuliano115 said:
Atheists might think that the universe could create itself from nothing, but any scientist will tell you that it’s impossible for something to be created out of nothing.

So their problem of where did everything come from is much greater than our problem of how was God created. (not that it’s a problem to me!)

Fran
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I don’t know if you are familiar with Theoretical Physics. They are using modern references, like computer code, the matrix, computer simulations, etc. But they are throwing out the idea that the material world came from a non-material world (I’ve read the term “possibly spiritual world” thrown out there too. I understand the non-material world to mean “nothing” in the material sense. I could be wrong. The whole point is that the Universe came from something, it just wasn’t a material something. Now compare this to ideas from different religions that the physical world is in God’s mind, Exist within God, etc. Once they figure how to test their theories, they may discover where the material world came from. Or at least, what’s on the other side of the firmament. These theories are leaning to explain that the Universe game from something and possibly someone (the big computer nerd in the sky).

youtube.com/watch?v=bp4NkItgf0E
 
iohannes13 said:
I don’t know if you are familiar with Theoretical Physics. They are using modern references, like computer code, the matrix, computer simulations, etc. But they are throwing out the idea that the material world came from a non-material world (I’ve read the term “possibly spiritual world” thrown out there too. I understand the non-material world to mean “nothing” in the material sense. I could be wrong. The whole point is that the Universe came from something, it just wasn’t a material something. Now compare this to ideas from different religions that the physical world is in God’s mind, Exist within God, etc. Once they figure how to test their theories, they may discover where the material world came from. Or at least, what’s on the other side of the firmament. These theories are leaning to explain that the Universe game from something and possibly someone (the big computer nerd in the sky).

youtube.com/watch?v=bp4NkItgf0E
Click to expand...
Hi iohannes,

The only physics I know is that when my husband says he’s hungry, I have to go make dinner!

No, really. Don’t know too much except the big stuff everyone knows. I have a niece who wants to be a physicist and I can hardly speak to her anymore!

The above is very interesting. Eventually science will come to affirm the bible.

Maybe the end will come when we can prove God’s existence?

Fran
 
Here is the way I look at God being eternal.
Moses went up a mountain, was it about 4000 years ago and saw God. When he came back down his face was shining (the glory of God). He also began to tell the people about a prophet like him that would one day come and that they must listen to him.
Elijah went up a mountain and to see God.
Jesus, James, John, and Peter went up a mountain about 2000 years ago, and there they saw Jesus shining brightly, and they saw Moses and Elijah on the mountain talking with Jesus.

When Moses went up the mountain, when Elijah went up the mountain, when Jesus and the three went up the mountain, all became aware of reality the way God sees reality; they were knowing with God’s knowing rather than their temporal way of knowing.

God knows (not “God knew”) Moses on the mountain. God knows Elijah on the mountain. God knows Jesus and the three on the mountain. And God knows his Son as Shining bright. It is apart from time. God knows that mountain and those six people there sharing his knowing plus our thinking about that moment, eternally.

When Moses went down, back away from knowing with God’s knowing, he came to his people and told the Israelites that another prophet like him was coming, “Listen to him”. As he about to leave the mountain, he had heard a voice from the cloud over his shoulder saying, “This is my beloved Son; listen to him”. It was not only Peter, James and John who heard that command, but also Moses and Elijah, all outside of time together in the knowing of, participating the knowing of, the presence of God.
 
John_Martin said:
Here is the way I look at God being eternal.
Moses went up a mountain, was it about 4000 years ago and saw God. When he came back down his face was shining (the glory of God). He also began to tell the people about a prophet like him that would one day come and that they must listen to him.
Elijah went up a mountain and to see God.
Jesus, James, John, and Peter went up a mountain about 2000 years ago, and there they saw Jesus shining brightly, and they saw Moses and Elijah on the mountain talking with Jesus.

When Moses went up the mountain, when Elijah went up the mountain, when Jesus and the three went up the mountain, all became aware of reality the way God sees reality; they were knowing with God’s knowing rather than their temporal way of knowing.

God knows (not “God knew”) Moses on the mountain. God knows Elijah on the mountain. God knows Jesus and the three on the mountain. And God knows his Son as Shining bright. It is apart from time. God knows that mountain and those six people there sharing his knowing plus our thinking about that moment, eternally.

When Moses went down, back away from knowing with God’s knowing, he came to his people and told the Israelites that another prophet like him was coming, “Listen to him”. As he about to leave the mountain, he had heard a voice from the cloud over his shoulder saying, “This is my beloved Son; listen to him”. It was not only Peter, James and John who heard that command, but also Moses and Elijah, all outside of time together in the knowing of, participating the knowing of, the presence of God.
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Beautiful. After so much doctrinal discussion, the spiritual explanation always brings us back to the reality of our christianity.

Jesus said: Before Abraham was, I AM.

Moses had brought the Law. God tells the apostles to listen to His Son, the bearer of Grace.

They wanted to build 3 tabernacles. We are the tabernacle and Jesus dwells in each one of us.

Thanks.

Fran
 
frangiuliano115 said:
Hi iohannes,

The only physics I know is that when my husband says he’s hungry, I have to go make dinner!

No, really. Don’t know too much except the big stuff everyone knows. I have a niece who wants to be a physicist and I can hardly speak to her anymore!

The above is very interesting. Eventually science will come to affirm the bible.

Maybe the end will come when we can prove God’s existence?

Fran
Click to expand...
Hi Fran,

Check out this video. A theoretical physicist asks the biggest athiest in the world about the matrix and the creator- the big computer nerd in the sky. The athiest is baffled but defiant don’t you think? Notice how the scientists shoots down his arguments? Science is no longer backing up his notions!! He is arguing against science. m.youtube.com/watch?v=cMTkrIcg7x4

This BBC documentary shows that as much as scientists try to get away from the idea that there is a creator, when they finally think they got it, they ultimately end up back at step one. Their observations and ideas lead them back to the idea that there is a creator time and time again.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=TW39nW32btg
 
iohannes13 said:
Hi Fran,

Check out this video. A theoretical physicist asks the biggest athiest in the world about the matrix and the creator- the big computer nerd in the sky. The athiest is baffled but defiant don’t you think? Notice how the scientists shoots down his arguments? Science is no longer backing up his notions!! He is arguing against science. m.youtube.com/watch?v=cMTkrIcg7x4

This BBC documentary shows that as much as scientists try to get away from the idea that there is a creator, when they finally think they got it, they ultimately end up back at step one. Their observations and ideas lead them back to the idea that there is a creator time and time again.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=TW39nW32btg
Click to expand...
Will do but not until Tuesday morning.

I have read that scientists are starting to believe that there has to be a first cause for everything. God could not have created Himself. Something has to be created by something else.

Will get back to you.

Fran
 
iohannes13 said:
Hi Fran,

Check out this video. A theoretical physicist asks the biggest athiest in the world about the matrix and the creator- the big computer nerd in the sky. The athiest is baffled but defiant don’t you think? Notice how the scientists shoots down his arguments? Science is no longer backing up his notions!! He is arguing against science. m.youtube.com/watch?v=cMTkrIcg7x4

This BBC documentary shows that as much as scientists try to get away from the idea that there is a creator, when they finally think they got it, they ultimately end up back at step one. Their observations and ideas lead them back to the idea that there is a creator time and time again.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=TW39nW32btg
Click to expand...
Hi iohannes13,

I watched the first video. It didn’t take this viewing to kick start my brain. I already thought of all this stuff YEARS ago. I think I’m a bit older than you. In other words, how do we know this isn’t all just a big play put on by a god? Yes. That type of question has always been asked. Of course, you can’t know the answer!

Was that Mr. Dawkins in the interview? I think so.

Did you see The 13th Floor? You’d like that. One of the first. Now we have DiCaprio’s movie and others. 13th Floor is more simple and easy to understand but very effective.

Also continued with the video re 9/11. Interesting. Will have to watch it in bits and pieces. Where I live (Europe) it’s very accepted that 9/11 was a govt conspiracy. I still find that difficult to believe but the presenter makes interesting points.

Apologies to the other posters but it looks like this might be the end of this thread anyway.

Thanks for the links.

Fran
 
Melodeonist said:
Since God has been around forever (literally), then doesn’t that mean that God either always existed, or created himself?

If God didn’t create himself, doesn’t that mean the very act of existing is God?
Click to expand...
It’s somewhat inaccurate to say that God has “been around forever”, since He is before time and outside of time. God has no beginning and no end. As existence is part of His essence (God is a necessary being), acts of existence (of things) are dependent on God but not equivalent to God.
 
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