Did God create man to love him and be his slaves?

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A lot of Chrisitans tell me that God created man but not for man to be his slaves or just for man to love God. But it really does seem like this is the case. I remember when I was a believer I never a had an answer to this, my sister was following the Church only because she didn’t want to be wrong, but she seemed angry that God only created man so that we would love Him, and serve Him, and that this is a very selfish thing to do.

What is your take on this folks?
 
I create stuff sometimes.
I create stuff that I like.
Because I’m God I am Perfectly Good.
So, all the stuff I create is good too.
So the stuff I create likes Me because I’m Good and it is good too…🙂
 
People that hate the idea have negative feelings of self. THis is projected in their reaction to a good and loving God, that they too must reject. It is only a removal of self loathing that can take the blinders off of the reality of truth.
 
I create stuff sometimes.
I create stuff that I like.
Because I’m God I am Perfectly Good.
So, all the stuff I create is good too.
So the stuff I create likes Me because I’m Good and it is good too…🙂
What about all the people who don’t like God? This really doesn’t answer whether or not God created man to be His slaves.
 
People that hate the idea have negative feelings of self. THis is projected in their reaction to a good and loving God, that they too must reject. It is only a removal of self loathing that can take the blinders off of the reality of truth.
So is God good and loving? Or is He a slave monger?
 
A lot of Chrisitans tell me that God created man but not for man to be his slaves or just for man to love God. But it really does seem like this is the case. I remember when I was a believer I never a had an answer to this, my sister was following the Church only because she didn’t want to be wrong, but she seemed angry that God only created man so that we would love Him, and serve Him, and that this is a very selfish thing to do.

What is your take on this folks?
God never told us why he created us, thus we do not know. However, nothing stops us from speculating about it.

We know how much He loves us, what His plan is for us, and that He gave us free will. Because of that we choose to love Him and to follow Him.
 
So is God good and loving? Or is He a slave monger?
Read my post again. Lose self loathing and you lose the viewpoint.

To love yourself is to respect yourself.

When these things happen, you can see.
 
This “slave monger” view is completely distorted.

"Then he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded…When he had washed their feet, and taken his garments, and resumed his place, he said to them, ‘Do you know what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet. you also ought to wash one another’s feet.’ "
John 13: 5, 12-14

Old catechism lessons teach “God created us to know Him, to love Him and to serve Him so we can be happy with Him in heaven.” While we try to know, love and serve God, He knows, loves and serves us too. It’s mutual, only He’s far better at knowing, loving and serving than we are.
 
Galatians
Chapter 5:1

For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.
 
This is a fundamental question. However, using the terms “love” and “slave” in the same breath seem to reflect confused ideas of both.

Unfortunately, the term “love” has been totally shot in the English language: I love my wife, I love my father, I love my mother, I love my brother, I love my sister, I love my son, I love my daughter, I love my country, I love chocolate, I love rock & roll, I love “24”, etc., etc., etc. All different forms of human love. The love I have for God should be similar to the forms towards the beginning of that list of examples, but unique, still.

Is each of us inferior to God? Like it or not but even a complete fool would admit he is. But too many fools still bristle at the notion of being inferior to anyone or anything. Does the “inferior” relationship I have to God make me a slave to God? No. At least not the God of the Jews and certainly not the God that Christ manifested to us. Islam - the religion of submission and surrender - might call me to be a slave to Allah but thank God I was not born into that heritage.

There are many but clearly one key to understand that I am not a slave to God is that I have free will and at full liberty to refuse him. Our love is fully voluntary.

If you think that entering voluntarily into a wonderful, fatherly, fully benevolent relationship with God is enslaving oneself, I think the term is being misused. In the past, some have volunteered themselves into servitude in exchange for the security of ownership by someone else. The fact that in nearly all civilized societies even voluntary slavery is outlawed bespeaks to the fact that slavery is not wholesome in any form and announces the equality of men.

But to equate my dedication to my wife, my parents, my children, my country, the welfare of my fellow men, etc., as slavery to each of these is to twist to the absurd the whole nature of love. It is not unlike radical feminists calling all marriage slavery.

As I said in the beginning, using the term love (inherently voluntary) in the same context as slavery (never voluntary) reflects a misunderstanding of the difference in the terms. That God, as our vast superior, COULD demand us to be slaves and has chosen not to says clearly that he does not wish us to be slaves but his children, his brother, his friend.

I suppose you could say, but the consequences of a refusal of this relationship are so severe that it amounts to extreme coercion. What sort of offer is that? Not one of love.

To answer this, you have to look at some other terms - like justice - an often forgotten concept.

And the fact that God has been so very coy about this undermines any firm assertion the consequences are dire. In fact, isn’t denial of the reality of hell the norm of all “smart” people? Remember the rich man and Lazarus - and the rich man’s brothers? I’m sure if I were given the vision of hell given to the children of Fatima my life would change overnight.

No. God loves me. I am not his slave. I freely love him. But not enough.
 
A lot of Chrisitans tell me that God created man but not for man to be his slaves or just for man to love God. But it really does seem like this is the case. I remember when I was a believer I never a had an answer to this, my sister was following the Church only because she didn’t want to be wrong, but she seemed angry that God only created man so that we would love Him, and serve Him, and that this is a very selfish thing to do.

What is your take on this folks?
Think about your own experiences of love for other people. The people that you love the most. Do you not desire that they love you back? Of course. We desire this with every fiber of our being. It does not makes us selfish to do so. We are not forcing the other person to love us back. To try and force another person to love us contradicts the very notion of love. That is why 1 Corinthians 13 makes so much sense.

The relationship of love with God though seems at first to be so one sided. Especially since our failure to love God raises the specter of hell. Perhaps this is where you think it appears that we are being forced to love God. But hell is really an eternal separation from God’s love, and it is a choice that we have freely made during our existence in this world. If you choose to reject that love, then you have really separated yourself from God. It is you who have done it. I believe that the apocalyptic literature that describes hell is actually a way of describing that separation in a way that the writers at that time understood.
 
God never told us why he created us, thus we do not know. However, nothing stops us from speculating about it.

We know how much He loves us, what His plan is for us, and that He gave us free will. Because of that we choose to love Him and to follow Him.
John 15:15 “I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.”
 
Think about your own experiences of love for other people. The people that you love the most. Do you not desire that they love you back? Of course. We desire this with every fiber of our being. It does not makes us selfish to do so. We are not forcing the other person to love us back. To try and force another person to love us contradicts the very notion of love. That is why 1 Corinthians 13 makes so much sense.

The relationship of love with God though seems at first to be so one sided. Especially since our failure to love God raises the specter of hell. Perhaps this is where you think it appears that we are being forced to love God. But hell is really an eternal separation from God’s love, and it is a choice that we have freely made during our existence in this world. If you choose to reject that love, then you have really separated yourself from God. It is you who have done it. I believe that the apocalyptic literature that describes hell is actually a way of describing that separation in a way that the writers at that time understood.
What about giving up your life for God? Surrendering to Jesus. This is what God is asking of us. The whole idea of hell makes God’s love seem conditional. The fact that there are all these rules to follow, where the consequence of unrepented sin is Hell. It’s pretty much impossible to both enjoy your life and love God, but it’s possible to enjoy your life and love others. The way it’s set up, you can’t be accepting God’s love unless you suffer.

Hell is considered eternal death. So therefore, love God or die.
How does the analogy of pointing a gun to someone’s head while saying “love me” not resemble this at all?
 
This is a fundamental question. However, using the terms “love” and “slave” in the same breath seem to reflect confused ideas of both.

Unfortunately, the term “love” has been totally shot in the English language: I love my wife, I love my father, I love my mother, I love my brother, I love my sister, I love my son, I love my daughter, I love my country, I love chocolate, I love rock & roll, I love “24”, etc., etc., etc. All different forms of human love. The love I have for God should be similar to the forms towards the beginning of that list of examples, but unique, still.

Is each of us inferior to God? Like it or not but even a complete fool would admit he is. But too many fools still bristle at the notion of being inferior to anyone or anything. Does the “inferior” relationship I have to God make me a slave to God? No. At least not the God of the Jews and certainly not the God that Christ manifested to us. Islam - the religion of submission and surrender - might call me to be a slave to Allah but thank God I was not born into that heritage.

There are many but clearly one key to understand that I am not a slave to God is that I have free will and at full liberty to refuse him. Our love is fully voluntary.

If you think that entering voluntarily into a wonderful, fatherly, fully benevolent relationship with God is enslaving oneself, I think the term is being misused. In the past, some have volunteered themselves into servitude in exchange for the security of ownership by someone else. The fact that in nearly all civilized societies even voluntary slavery is outlawed bespeaks to the fact that slavery is not wholesome in any form and announces the equality of men.

But to equate my dedication to my wife, my parents, my children, my country, the welfare of my fellow men, etc., as slavery to each of these is to twist to the absurd the whole nature of love. It is not unlike radical feminists calling all marriage slavery.

As I said in the beginning, using the term love (inherently voluntary) in the same context as slavery (never voluntary) reflects a misunderstanding of the difference in the terms. That God, as our vast superior, COULD demand us to be slaves and has chosen not to says clearly that he does not wish us to be slaves but his children, his brother, his friend.

I suppose you could say, but the consequences of a refusal of this relationship are so severe that it amounts to extreme coercion. What sort of offer is that? Not one of love.

To answer this, you have to look at some other terms - like justice - an often forgotten concept.

And the fact that God has been so very coy about this undermines any firm assertion the consequences are dire. In fact, isn’t denial of the reality of hell the norm of all “smart” people? Remember the rich man and Lazarus - and the rich man’s brothers? I’m sure if I were given the vision of hell given to the children of Fatima my life would change overnight.

No. God loves me. I am not his slave. I freely love him. But not enough.
Please tell me, how is justice defined? I really don’t know and am being totally honest here, explain to me what justice is.
 
defined by who?

Some have said justice is only for the ones in power.

You can hardly make that claim against Christians.

Jesus on the Cross is the purest example of God being as “small” as possible to be the VICTOR over death (for you and me and all)

Even the ones that HATE him.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 
defined by who?

Some have said justice is only for the ones in power.

You can hardly make that claim against Christians.

Jesus on the Cross is the purest example of God being as “small” as possible to be the VICTOR over death (for you and me and all)

Even the ones that HATE him.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I’m still confused here, what is justice?
 
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