Did God exclude females from receiving an ontological change

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What I would like to hear is some general knowledge about the Sacraments.

What general information can you share about the seven Catholic Sacraments?

What is special about the individual Sacraments in your opinion?
 
grannymh said:
What I would like to hear is some general knowledge about the Sacraments.

What general information can you share about the seven Catholic Sacraments?

What is special about the individual Sacraments in your opinion?
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I think it would be too much to go into all 7 sacraments.

A female can receive all 6 sacraments, there is just one that is exclusive to men.

Seems the answer is that men are the head of women, and if practised correctly men have the last word in the house hold within a family.

This may work for many people and so keep a family together and in peace. I have no problem with that.

The links provided on this thread keep repeating that theme, so I don’t think I’ll get any deeper understanding of why God sees his female children as incapable of receiving one of his sacraments.

Thanks all.
 
simpleas said:
I think it would be too much to go into all 7 sacraments.

A female can receive all 6 sacraments, there is just one that is exclusive to men.
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The fact that humans are able to receive seven Sacraments is the first essential piece of information.

At this point, it is not necessary to separate who receives what Sacrament. In my area, there have been older adults who did not receive the Catholic Sacrament of Confirmation. Not every Catholic receives the Sacraments of Matrimony, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Confirmation. Naturally, Catholics receive the Sacrament of Baptism and hopefully the Sacrament of the Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation.

The next essential piece of information is that all the Sacraments, at some point in time, are needed in the Mystical Body of Christ which is the Catholic Church. Again, we need to look at the big picture without separating which sex can receive what. We should look at what the individual Sacraments do for the members of the Catholic Church. I am interested in knowing your ideas about the various Sacraments and what they contribute to the Church population.

I have a story. There were a few years when I was able to minister to the sick and dying in our local hospital. One day, I brought Holy Communion to an elderly woman who was seriously sick and to her husband who looked like he would never leave her alone in the hospital room. For some reason, the Sacrament of Matrimony popped into my head and I reminded this couple of their wedding so long ago. I could feel their memory so I continued to remind them of the graces they received that day. Quietly, I asked them to call on those graces to help them this day.

The Sacrament of Matrimony is not a one-time event in the Mystical Body of Christ. Its grace can continue until there is a hospital bed and holding hands. My point is that each Sacrament has a job in the Mystical Body of Christ. The Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick has an important job in a hospital. It is unique in place and time. The Sacrament of Matrimony is unique beyond the wedding day.

In a general way, we need to look at what each Sacrament offers (its job) before looking at who can receive the Sacrament.
 
Gorgias said:
Again, it’s not about the ability to perform functions.

Perhaps. Yet, the substantial change to the bread and wine into the Eucharist is something “that’s visible only to God”. Are you suggesting that that’s up for grabs, too? :hmmm:
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I didn’t intend to put anything “up for grabs”. The ability to confect the Eucharist isn’t visible to humans, so we must simply trust that the Magisterium is inspired by the Holy Spirit in saying it’s impossible for women. It’s never been declared one way or the other, so a future pope likely wouldn’t have too much trouble admitting women to the priesthood if he so chose. Whether or not that will ever happen I don’t know.

Personally, I find the arguments against womens’ ordination very unconvincing. So, to the OP’s original question I would reply that I don’t know. However, some men have certainly done so.
 
simpleas said:
I think it would be too much to go into all 7 sacraments.
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An easy first step is to look at what each Sacrament offers (its job) before looking at who can receive the Sacrament.

What kind of Sacrament jobs do you see?
 
billsannie said:
The ability to confect the Eucharist isn’t visible to humans, so we must simply trust that the Magisterium is inspired by the Holy Spirit in saying it’s impossible for women. It’s never been declared one way or the other
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Actually, it has been. In another thread, a poster pointed out the statement by Pope John Paul II that was phrased in a way to make it clear he was making a doctrinal statement on faith and morals.
Personally, I find the arguments against womens’ ordination very unconvincing.
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Fair enough. Yet, do you evaluate each doctrinal statement of the Church in terms of how convinced you are of the arguments for them, and accept or reject them based on personal criteria?
 
grannymh said:
An easy first step is to look at what each Sacrament offers (its job) before looking at who can receive the Sacrament.
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This is what the Sacrament of Holy Orders offers.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The Lord’s Supper.
Gospel of Matthew, chapter 26: 26-28
usccb.org/bible/matthew/26

26* j While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to His disciples said, “Take and eat; this is My body.”
27
Then He took a cup, gave thanks,* and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you,
28l
for this is My blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Receiving the Real Presence of Our Good Shepherd in Holy Communion is far above anything we can think of.

Is it really possible that God does not love women enough so that they can be equal Catholic priests? That proposition sounds like a subtle tool to change the Catholic Church at its foundation so that eventually the walls will crumble.
 
grannymh said:
This is what the Sacrament of Holy Orders offers.

http://www.framedart.com/product-images/AWAAQAHQ-R767553-AEAAAAFAE4.jpg

The Lord’s Supper.
Gospel of Matthew, chapter 26: 26-28
usccb.org/bible/matthew/26

26* j While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to His disciples said, “Take and eat; this is My body.”
27
Then He took a cup, gave thanks,* and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you,
28l
for this is My blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Receiving the Real Presence of Our Good Shepherd in Holy Communion is far above anything we can think of.

Is it really possible that God does not love women enough so that they can be equal Catholic priests? That proposition sounds like a subtle tool to change the Catholic Church at its foundation so that eventually the walls will crumble.
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Jesus said this to the disciples, and I believe women were among his disciples.

Your question about God not loving women enough so they can be equal to Catholic priests is what I am exploring. Equal in the sense that they, if called should receive the laying on of hands in order to be able to be a vessel of Gods Grace.
Why does God withhold that one holy sacrament from his child according to the Catholic church.
Sacraments give grace to the person/s that ask for it for a particular moment in their lives, marriage, confession, sickness, etc. God gives strength and peace within his grace.
 
simpleas said:
if called should receive the laying on of hands in order to be able to be a vessel of Gods Grace.
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While it’s nice to want to be a vessel of grace for the love of God, one ought always to remember that the priority is for the glorification of God and not the self-centered desire to be a vessel for others. Just because someone doesn’t receive an institutionalized sacrament does not necessitate their inability to be such a vessel of grace to others, and this especially applies to women in my humble opinion. It seems this is exemplified in the Catechism:

(CCC Article 1257) - God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
 
worldwideweary said:
While it’s nice to want to be a vessel of grace for the love of God, one ought always to remember that the priority is for the glorification of God and not the self-centered desire to be a vessel for others. Just because someone doesn’t receive an institutionalized sacrament does not necessitate their inability to be such a vessel of grace to others, and this especially applies to women in my humble opinion. It seems this is exemplified in the Catechism:

(CCC Article 1257) - God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
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Very good, yes, so why not ordination of women?
 
simpleas said:
Jesus said this to the disciples, and I believe women were among his disciples.

Your question about God not loving women enough so they can be equal to Catholic priests is what I am exploring. Equal in the sense that they, if called should receive the laying on of hands in order to be able to be a vessel of Gods Grace.
Why does God withhold that one holy sacrament from his child according to the Catholic church.
Sacraments give grace to the person/s that ask for it for a particular moment in their lives, marriage, confession, sickness, etc. God gives strength and peace within his grace.
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Naturally, everyone can explore the seven Catholic Sacraments – nothing wrong with that. Naturally, everyone can explore equality – nothing wrong with that.

The Catholic Sacrament of Holy Orders does not call women.

Grace for both women and men comes from the Catholic Sacrament of Baptism. Please explore that. Grace for both women and men comes from the Catholic Sacrament of Confirmation. Please explore that. Grace for both women and men comes from the Catholic Sacrament of the Eucharist. Please explore that. Grace for both women and men comes from the Catholic Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation. Please explore that. Grace for both women and men comes from the Catholic Sacrament of Anointing. Please explore that. Grace for both women and men comes from the Catholic Sacrament of Matrimony. Please explore that.

The above demonstrates that there is no serious reason for some, not all, persons to be angry at God because He calls men, not women, to the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

“Why does God withhold that one holy sacrament from His child according to the Catholic church?”

Because the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity assumed a human male nature. This is known as the Catholic doctrine of the Incarnation. The male Catholic Priest acts “In Persona Christi” which in English means that the male Catholic Priest is acting in the Person of the male Jesus Christ.

Please, both women and men need to explore the fact that like Genesis 3: 4-5, there is a stealth attack against the Catholic Church.
 
Another dumb thought from a granny who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

It appears to me that the spiritual world, like Sacraments, etc., has been replaced by some of the prevalent ideas or standards found in the material world. :o
 
Part of the reason I asked this question was because of another thread discussing women priests, and how on that thread some posters made fun out of those women, some said a women can not be ontologically changed like a man etc.

What is so bad about the idea of a woman being able to perform a sacred act, to be able to act in persona Christ (since we are all made in God’s image)

Would the church fall to pieces if women prayed along side the pope at his level?

Would women being priestess add to the church rather than take something away from it?

Since there is less attendance at Masses in some parishes would a change in this teaching help bring back belief, devotion, etc, in an era that is struggling with spiritual problems, or where no spiritual belief is even thought of.
 
Gorgias said:
Actually, it has been. In another thread, a poster pointed out the statement by Pope John Paul II that was phrased in a way to make it clear he was making a doctrinal statement on faith and morals.
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Perhaps, but barring an official declaration from the Vatican, its infallibility is sufficiently debatable for a future pope to easily find a way around it, if he chose to do so.
Gorgias said:
Fair enough. Yet, do you evaluate each doctrinal statement of the Church in terms of how convinced you are of the arguments for them, and accept or reject them based on personal criteria?
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I really try not to. But many of the arguments against the ordination of women were conceived of in an era when women were considered inferior to men, and they reek of that. Even in a more modern expression, such as that of Sara Butler, these often depend on pre-critical readings of the Bible, pre-dating the finding of many old manuscripts, as well as assumptions which many scholars consider outmoded.

And no, I don’t think that just because these ideas are newer they are better. It’s just that with more knowledge we can more readily understand what God is trying to tell us. Between these later interpretations, and modern scientic research into the true natures of men and women, it’s difficult to find much support for male-only ordination.
 
billsannie said:
And no, I don’t think that just because these ideas are newer they are better. It’s just that with more knowledge we can more readily understand what God is trying to tell us. Between these later interpretations, and modern scientic research into the true natures of men and women, it’s difficult to find much support for male-only ordination.
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St. Paul already told us about the Mystical Body of Christ. Is it possible that
1 Corinthians, chapter 12, is now in the trash along with Genesis 1: 27?
 
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