Did God make everything?

[andyklein]

He certainly couldn’t have made evil, right? If God is all-good, He couldn’t have. But if God is also all-powerful and creator of the universe, how could evil possibly exist and how could something have come into being if God didn’t make it so? I imagine I am assuming that good and evil are equally existent.

 

[marty1818]

Evil is an absence of good. Read Chapter 11 newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm

 

[Linusthe2nd]

He certainly couldn’t have made evil, right? If God is all-good, He couldn’t have. But if God is also all-powerful and creator of the universe, how could evil possibly exist and how could something have come into being if God didn’t make it so? I imagine I am assuming that good and evil are equally existent.

First, from the Catechism:

III. “THE WORLD WAS CREATED FOR THE GLORY OF GOD”

293 Scripture and Tradition never cease to teach and celebrate this fundamental truth: "The world was made for the glory of God."134 St. Bonaventure explains that God created all things “not to increase his glory, but to show it forth and to communicate it”,135 for God has no other reason for creating than his love and goodness: "Creatures came into existence when the key of love opened his hand."136 The First Vatican Council explains:

This one, true God, of his own goodness and “almighty power”, not for increasing his own beatitude, nor for attaining his perfection, but in order to manifest this perfection through the benefits which he bestows on creatures, with absolute freedom of counsel "and from the beginning of time, made out of nothing both orders of creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal. . ."137

So how does the presence of evil square with the Goodness of an Almighty God? First, we must understand He is God, we are not. So He and He alone will know the real answer to that. As creatures dependent for our existence and well being on His good Will and Providence it is most unbecoming of us to question His Wisdom. Nevertheless, the Catechism does give us some answers.

Providence and the scandal of evil

309 If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question: the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of evil.

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better.174 But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world “in a state of journeying” towards its ultimate perfection. In God’s plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.175

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil.176 He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177

312 In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an evil, even a moral evil, caused by his creatures: “It was not you”, said Joseph to his brothers, "who sent me here, but God. . . You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive."178 From the greatest moral evil ever committed - the rejection and murder of God’s only Son, caused by the sins of all men - God, by his grace that “abounded all the more”,179 brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, evil never becomes a good.

313 "We know that in everything God works for good for those who love him."180 The constant witness of the saints confirms this truth:

St. Catherine of Siena said to “those who are scandalized and rebel against what happens to them”: "Everything comes from love, all is ordained for the salvation of man, God does nothing without this goal in mind."181
St. Thomas More, shortly before his martyrdom, consoled his daughter: "Nothing can come but that that God wills. and I make me very sure that whatsoever that be, seem it never so bad in sight, it shall indeed be the best."182
Dame Julian of Norwich: "Here I was taught by the grace of God that I should steadfastly keep me in the faith… and that at the same time I should take my stand on and earnestly believe in what our Lord shewed in this time - that ‘all manner (of) thing shall be well.’"183

314 We firmly believe that God is master of the world and of its history. But the ways of his providence are often unknown to us. Only at the end, when our partial knowledge ceases, when we see God “face to face”,184 will we fully know the ways by which - even through the dramas of evil and sin - God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest185 for which he created heaven and earth.

These are the only certain answers we can have, any others are pure speculation.

Linus2nd

 

[devoutchristian]

Evil doesn’t “exist” per se, since their is no essence of evil, but rather it is a privation of good that occurs.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

—Isaiah 45:7

Shrimp, pillows and mixed fibers- what does God think about them at ten o clock.

 

[jonathan_hili]

He certainly couldn’t have made evil, right? If God is all-good, He couldn’t have. But if God is also all-powerful and creator of the universe, how could evil possibly exist and how could something have come into being if God didn’t make it so? I imagine I am assuming that good and evil are equally existent.

Neither “good” nor “evil” are existent substances, but properties, or qualities of substances. If the question is, “How can evil as a quality exist?”, the classical answer is that evil is the deprivation of some good, which is only indirectly created by God,

e.g.
God creates Man with free-will
Free-will is good
Man abuses his free-will, and thus commits evil actions

In such an example, God is the direct creator of something good, namely, humanity with free-will. When humanity does evil, God is only the indirect creative force, since He created humanity, but is not the source of the evil itself.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Neither “good” nor “evil” are existent substances, but properties, or qualities of substances. If the question is, “How can evil as a quality exist?”, the classical answer is that evil is the deprivation of some good, which is only indirectly created by God,

e.g.
God creates Man with free-will
Free-will is good
Man abuses his free-will, and thus commits evil actions

In such an example, God is the direct creator of something good, namely, humanity with free-will. When humanity does evil, God is only the indirect creative force, since He created humanity, but is not the source of the evil itself.

For an example, if I change the grading of my property so that it is higher than my neighbors I am only the indirect cause of their flooding but not the source of the flooding itself.

 

[KindredSoul]

He certainly couldn’t have made evil, right? If God is all-good, He couldn’t have. But if God is also all-powerful and creator of the universe, how could evil possibly exist and how could something have come into being if God didn’t make it so? I imagine I am assuming that good and evil are equally existent.

Well, evil is the misuse and/or privation of good. As a somewhat silly analogy, let us say that a person specialized in making kitchen knives that made work in the kitchen incredibly easy. These knives in themselves are good things, but someone might use them to bring harm to other people, which is bad. Likewise, the only way to prevent the possibility of someone using the knives for harmful purposes would be to make the knives unable to cut, but then they’d be useless for cutting in the kitchen as intended. Just so, every instance of evil is a case where someone has misused something good that God created, even if the thing being misused is something so very basic and fundamental as “free will.”

Some may say that God ought to have revoked free will if He foresaw that evil would result from it, but that is not truly free, anymore than a knife that cannot cut makes for a very efficient kitchen knife.

In the beginning, God made everything and it was good. But because some of those good things, such as free will, may by definition be used in a bad way (or else they would not be what they were intended to be, in the specific case of free will for example it would not be “free”), it means that even though these things were good in themselves, they inherently made evil possible. Evil is not its own objective/inherent existence, but rather the twisting of things that were already created, things which were and are good.

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul

 

[andyklein]

Good stuff, but why did God create good things with the capacity to corrupt good things? Can it be that God, who created all things good, created the capacity for good things to corrupt good things? This sort of implies that God did not create all things or that he did not create all things good, unless God created substances without properties…but then where did these properties come from? Did God not create properties?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Good stuff, but why did God create good things with the capacity to corrupt good things? Can it be that God, who created all things good, created the capacity for good things to corrupt good things? This sort of implies that God did not create all things or that he did not create all things good, unless God created substances without properties…but then where did these properties come from? Did God not create properties?

Just stick to the Catechism. That is all you have to believe.
Don’t be dreaming up problems. Neither you nor anyone else can know all the answers to these types of questions.

Linus2n

 

[jonathan_hili]

Good stuff, but why did God create good things with the capacity to corrupt good things? Can it be that God, who created all things good, created the capacity for good things to corrupt good things? This sort of implies that God did not create all things or that he did not create all things good, unless God created substances without properties…but then where did these properties come from? Did God not create properties?

I think, to work towards an answer here, we will need to distinguish between different kinds of “evils”, especially between natural (or material) evils on the one hand, and moral (or spiritual) evils on the other.

I would argue that although evil is broadly understood as a deprivation of something good, when we ask why God would allow evil, we are really talking about the second kind of evil.

The first kind, natural evil, is inevitable or highly likely with the kind of universe we have: eyesight fails, plants wither and die, earthquakes occur, asteroids collide with planets, etc. I don’t think these pose a problem because they lack a moral dimension. For example, when we say that earthquakes are bad or my cancer is bad, we don’t mean that it is morally bad.

The second kind, moral evil, is the result of free-will, which is in itself good.

Now, you ask, why did God create things with a capacity for corruption? In terms of natural evils, there are a few ways we could go from here. One could argue that this was not originally God’s plan, that the evil Satan brought into Creation led to these natural evils occurring, or at least occurring in a way that affects humanity. But I’d rather argue that if you are establishing a system like the universe, with certain inherent laws and characteristics, and the qualities of life as they are, then many natural evils are inevitable. And again, these things are not evil in themselves, at least for a moral perspective. However, in terms of moral evil, well, I don’t see how you can avoid it with free-will, since the possibility of choosing evil is always there.

God doesn’t create the property of evil. Evil is a deprivation of good, so a misuse of otherwise good properties. For example, our intellect can be misused: instead of working towards bettering the world, we could use our intelligence to steal or harm; our will can be misused: instead of willing good, we can will harm; our desire can be misused: instead of desiring God and the good of our neighbour, we can desire only personal gain, etc.

 

[Praying7]

Hi, I hope that this answer will help others and is in conformity with the teachings of the catholic church.
Andyklein, I want you to know that there is nothing wrong with asking these questions. It is only by searching by asking questions that one finds the truth. However, be careful to look for the truth where it IS and not where it is not or you can really get lost. I can’t answer these questions perfectly, only God can so I suggest that you pray. Just go to church and ask Him. He is a friend and you can ask Him anything.Talk to a priest and ask him. Also check the teachings of the church and the works of various catholic authors. In short, don’t just use this post as the ONLY source for answers. Be careful about this.

I recently read an explanation in,'The Gift of Sexuality: A Guide for Young People by Rev. Robert J. Fox

'*What is sin? St.Augustine long ago defined it this way: Sin is ‘a word,deed or desire in opposition to the eternal law.’ Simply put, sin is a deliberate transgression of a law of God. More deeply considered by the early Fathers of the Church as a whole were in agreement that sin itself is not being. Consequently, sin is not a creation of God. It has no real substance but is the deterioration of substance, a falling away from being. It is a negation. It is the opposite of what should be.

Sin’s only reality consists in its creation by the free will both of angels and man. Looked at as a paradox, sin is the incarnation of non-being. God created everything and made everything perfect from perfect love and from the urge to expand love, to give and receive it. Sin is the opposite of love. It is the opposite of the will of God. It is a turning in on self and a denial of right order and being. *

**
Did God create good things with the capacity to corrupt good things?**
You need to define what you mean by ‘good things with the capacity to corrupt’, ‘capacity to corrupt’ and the ‘good things’ being corrupted. Everything God made is good; plants, animals, people and angels. So be specific. I can’t read your mind. However I will assume that you mean human beings and the angels sinning( ie corrupting). I will assume that what they are corrupting depends on the sin being done.
Now, this capacity is called free will. Man and the angels can choose to do God’s will or not to do God’s will; to sin or not to sin. Yes, God created free will. He created freedom.

Why did God create this capacity to corrupt good things?
Because He wanted man and the angels to freely choose to love Him. If we were not free, we would be like brainwashed beings, like the way in movies we see some alien controlling the mind of people. That is what would have happened. But God doesn’t want that He wants us to willingly do His Will; out of free will. HE WANTS US TO LOVE HIM FREELY. When I look at your question, it seems that you trying to ask if God created evil. I think the quote above answers this sufficiently. NO! NEVER! He hates it. You know He hates sin. But of course, one can ask,'If God hates it, why allow man and angels to do it? If He never created anything, sin would never have existed right? Yes, that’s true. If He had decided to created nothing, sin would not have ‘existed’. Also remember sin does not really exist. It has no being of its own. It’s a deterioration of substance. An example is a lie. When some one tells you the truth, what they say is what is in reality e.g. ‘My mother is at home’, says a little five-year-old boy to their teacher who wishes to talk to the mother. But, let’s say the boy is in trouble and he decides to tell the teacher,‘She traveled to Djibouti’. The boy has just distorted. He has just incarnated a non-being. Can you really say that the lie exists? Of course not, his mother is not traveling to Djibouti.Can you say that God created the lie? Of course not, this clearly not God doing. However, God made the boy with free will and he chose to lie. Something that offends God. A sin. An evil.

Does that sort of imply that God did not create all things nor did He create all things good?
Ask yourself, ‘What is ‘to create’?’ To create is to bring something into being from nothing. To make something exist that did not previously exist at all. Sin itself is not being. It is a negation. It is an incarnation of non-being. Therefore, can it really be created(brought into being)? This is a deep question. Perhaps, this is where the mystery of sin really comes in.
Now everything God created is good. That is a truth that the church teaches. Anything else is a lie that He also created evil things. Everything God created is good.
But can you call Hitler good? Can you call the devil good? This taps into the study of Morality. The study of good and evil. Hitler has a human nature that God created which is good. The devil has the nature of an angel that is good. But it is their actions that are evil and actions spring from their free will to choose good or evil. They chose evil however this differs with man and angels. Once an angel choose evil, they will NEVER chose to do good for as long as they exist. Once a man choose to do an evil act, they can still repent and choose to do good. However, once dead, they stay in heaven or in hell forever. In language, we speak of a good human person but really it is their acts that are good. You judge them according to their acts. With angels, we can speak of good angels and evil angels since it is clear cut but we cannot speak of a good human person or an evil human person except of Our Lady and Jesus. The rest of us are called sinners. All of us! It is the act that is purely evil or good not the human person.

I hope this has helped. I repeated what the other contributors said but I tried to put it comprehensively together. I’ll pray for you.

 

[Robert_Sock]

He certainly couldn’t have made evil, right? If God is all-good, He couldn’t have. But if God is also all-powerful and creator of the universe, how could evil possibly exist and how could something have come into being if God didn’t make it so? I imagine I am assuming that good and evil are equally existent.

Isaiah 45:7 - “I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” (Douay-Rheims)

 

[Linux]

Evil is not a being. It does not have an ontology. It is a privation of good.

 

[Linux]

First, from the Catechism:

These are the only certain answers we can have, any others are pure speculation.

Linus2nd

Then why come to the philosophy forum if quoting the catechism is good enough?

Are you trying to save us from pursing a logical explanation for the question of evil?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Then why come to the philosophy forum if quoting the catechism is good enough?

Are you trying to save us from pursing a logical explanation for the question of evil?

As you know most people are not philosophers and never will be philosophers. Some don’t have the educational background for it, some don’t have the facility of intellect, some don’t have sufficient time or inclination. All these types appear on this forum and some appear who may be interested and have the time but don’t realize until they get into a discussion that they don’t have the facility. So I want them to know for certain that the Catechism contains all doctrinal knowledge that is necessary for salvation.

Philosophy is good and has its uses but, strictly speaking, it is not necessary. Israel and Christianity got along just fine for about four thousand years without philosophy. And I haven’t noticed that today we are any better with it. And I will add, though some Saints were philosophers, many were not, some were uneducated at all.

I think it is good for folks to understand these things. So I will keep doing it.

Linus2nd

 

[Linux]

As you know most people are not philosophers and never will be philosophers. Some don’t have the educational background for it, some don’t have the facility of intellect, some don’t have sufficient time or inclination. All these types appear on this forum and some appear who may be interested and have the time but don’t realize until they get into a discussion that they don’t have the facility. So I want them to know for certain that the Catechism contains all doctrinal knowledge that is necessary for salvation.

Philosophy is good and has its uses but, strictly speaking, it is not necessary. Israel and Christianity got along just fine for about four thousand years without philosophy. And I haven’t noticed that today we are any better with it. And I will add, though some Saints were philosophers, many were not, some were uneducated at all.

I think it is good for folks to understand these things. So I will keep doing it.

Linus2nd

That’s all good and well, but that does not negate the fact that this is the philosophy forum, and so its safe to say that those who come to this section of Catholic answers do so in order to have a philosophical discussion about matters pertaining to the concept of God. I think they should be able to do so without people like you patronising them. Whether you personally think people are equipped to do philosophy or not is irrelevant to this discussion. Your personal feelings on the matter serves no positive function here.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

That’s all good and well, but that does not negate the fact that this is the philosophy forum, and so its safe to say that those who come to this section of Catholic answers do so in order to have a philosophical discussion about matters pertaining to the concept of God. I think they should be able to do so without people like you patronising them. Whether you personally think people are equipped to do philosophy or not is irrelevant to this discussion. Your personal feelings on the matter serves no positive function here.

And I might add, neither do yours. I will continue to do what I think needs to be done. It should be noted that this forum is not merely dedicated to philosophy but to philosophy as far as its exigencies pertain to Catholic Faith. I believe my comments are perfectly in line.

Just ignore them if you don’t like them.

Linus2nd

 

[Linux]

And I might add, neither do yours.

Actually it does. I have a problem with religious people who discourage philosophical thinking and encourage a fideistic attitude. It has no place on this thread.

I will continue to do what I think needs to be done.

I am sure you will, but what you think is right will not serve the proper function of this discussion.

It should be noted that this forum is not merely dedicated to philosophy but to philosophy as far as its exigencies pertain to Catholic Faith.

I Agree, and did not say otherwise (straw-man), but that does not mean that your patronizing attitude is welcome.

I believe my comments are perfectly in line.

Your wrong despite your feelings to the contrary.
Quoting dogmatic theology as a statement of faith does nothing to further a rational understanding of evil as it pertains to Gods creative act. Metaphysics, insofar as one asks what is the ontology of good and evil, is not just speculation. Its very important to have a rational understanding of ones faith so that if somebody asks for a rational reason to believe, one can be provided.

Just ignore them if you don’t like them.

Sorry, i can’t do that. I think it is important to encourage philosophical thinking especially in relation to religious claims.

Linus2nd

We already know your name.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Actually it does. I have a problem with religious people who discourage philosophical thinking and encourage a fideistic attitude. It has no place on this thread.

I am sure you will, but what you think is right will not serve the proper function of this discussion.

I Agree, and did not say otherwise (straw-man), but that does not mean that your patronizing attitude is welcome.

Your wrong despite your feelings to the contrary.
Quoting dogmatic theology as a statement of faith does nothing to further a rational understanding of evil as it pertains to Gods creative act. Metaphysics, insofar as one asks what is the ontology of good and evil, is not just speculation. Its very important to have a rational understanding of ones faith so that if somebody asks for a rational reason to believe, one can be provided.

Sorry, i can’t do that. I think it is important to encourage philosophical thinking especially in relation to religious claims.

We already know your name.

Well, are you going to continue this? Seems pointless, since I’m not in the least concerned about your value judgements.

Linus2nd ( Glad you know who I am, warms the cokles of my heart to know you care. But it is habit now so I will continue, besides others have gotten used to it as well.)