Did God the Father forsake Jesus on the Cross?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Holly3278
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

Holly3278

Guest
Hey everyone. This is something that I have always wondered. Did God the Father really forsake Jesus on the Cross or did Jesus simply feel like He had been forsaken by His Father? In other words, why did Jesus say “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “E’lo-i, E’lo-i, la’ma sabach-tha’ni?” which means, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” And some of the bystanders hearing it said, “Behold, he is calling Eli’jah.” And one ran and, filling a sponge full of vinegar, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Eli’jah will come to take him down.” And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last.
(Mark 15:33-37 RSV-CE)
 
Jesus was intentionally quoting the opening verse of psalm 22, and we should recognize that the persecuted righteous man in the psalm is ultimately vindicated and justified by God.
 
Last edited:
What Wesrock said! It was common to evoke the entire Psalm by quoting the first line. The Jews would know that Psalm by heart. The entire Psalm is important and does not show the Psalmist abandoned by God but rather vindicated.
 
He asked his father why he forsook him simply because he called him (as usual and as required by that moment) “Abba” which means my god and there was no answer.

Jesus repeated the call and, once received the line back, asked his father immediately why he was left alone.
 
The Father forsakes no one but we sometimes feel forsaken. Jesus, of course, shared in that very human feeling.
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. This is something that I have always wondered. Did God the Father really forsake Jesus on the Cross or did Jesus simply feel like He had been forsaken by His Father? In other words, why did Jesus say “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “E’lo-i, E’lo-i, la’ma sabach-tha’ni?” which means, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” And some of the bystanders hearing it said, “Behold, he is calling Eli’jah.” And one ran and, filling a sponge full of vinegar, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Eli’jah will come to take him down.” And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last.
(Mark 15:33-37 RSV-CE)
Click to expand...
What the others have said, is true. The only thing I can add is that the proof of their explanation lies in these words:

And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last.

We know what He said in this loud cry:

Luke 23:46 Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit”; and when he had said this he breathed his last.

Thus, we know that He did not really feel abandoned by the Father. He was merely pointing to the verse in Scripture which prophecied this event.

Psalm 22 The Prayer of an Innocent Person

1 My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?
Why so far from my call for help,
from my cries of anguish?
…7But I am a worm, not a man,
scorned by men, despised by the people.
8 All who see me mock me;
they curl their lips and jeer;
they shake their heads at me:
9 “He relied on the Lord—let him deliver him;
if he loves him, let him rescue him.”
…13 Many bulls surround me;
fierce bulls of Bashan encircle me.
14 They open their mouths against me,
lions that rend and roar.
15 Like water my life drains away;
all my bones are disjointed.
My heart has become like wax,
it melts away within me.
16 As dry as a potsherd is my throat;
my tongue cleaves to my palate;
you lay me in the dust of death.
17 Dogs surround me;
a pack of evildoers closes in on me.
They have pierced my hands and my feet
18 I can count all my bones.
…31 And I will live for the Lord;
my descendants will serve you.
32 The generation to come will be told of the Lord,
that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn
the deliverance you have brought.
 
Along these lines, I’m thinking, one thing Jesus said at the last supper was something like: “I am telling you now I will be crucified (and return to life), so, when it comes to pass, you will believe.” Thus, He prophesized to His Apostles and Disciples.

In a way, maybe the line about being forsaken is a similar prophecy, but to a different set of people - and at a very critical moment; speaking it directly to everyone, including his enemies, who had humanly pushed him as far as He could go. In other words, it too may be a sort of prophecy.

But the line still sounds a bit ironic as it is written. The Gospel account doesn’t include the full Psalm; or, in other words, it’s a broken utterance, like an incomplete thought (compared to the entirety of the Psalm).

I usually think of Him saying the full prayer, but that’s not the way its written. As I think on what we’re saying now, I can imagine Jesus gasping for breath - kind of like when you see someone die in a movie, and they are struggling to get out their final words.

But they weren’t His final words, either.

In the end, He asked God NOT to vindicate Him, but to forgive everyone.

Then He ended by commending even Himself - who had “become evil” by taking the sins of the entire world upon Himself - to God.

Thus, in a very pure and selfless way - He redeemed the world entirely; reclaiming from satan what was actually God the Fathers.
 
Last edited:
It may also be worth noting, the Old Testament writings, including the Psalms, were incomplete and erroneous.

What we see in the New Testament is everything perfectly brought to completion in Christ. The incomplete errors have been filled in, and the erroneous strains of thought pruned away in truth.

It seems to make sense then Jesus could have been (as He often did) simply “overwrite” (by fulfilling) David’s words according to the Truth as God would have it.
 
Wm777 said:
It may also be worth noting, the Old Testament writings, including the Psalms, were incomplete and erroneous.
Click to expand...
Can you please explain what in the Psalms was erroneous in the Hebrew Bible?
 
Wm777 said:
…Then He ended by commending even Himself - who had “become evil” by taking the sins of the entire world upon Himself - to God.
Click to expand...
The idea that Jesus had become evil is incompatible with Catholic Doctrine.
Wm777 said:
It may also be worth noting, the Old Testament writings, including the Psalms, were incomplete and erroneous.
Click to expand...
The idea that the Old Testament is somehow erroneous, is also incompatible with Catholic Teaching.
 
Jesus was not gasping for breath because he died with a loud cry which requires having air to cry.
 
He may have been experiencing the separation from God that comes with damnation. Taking upon Himself all aspects of the punishments associated with damnation were necessary in order for his sacrifice to serve as a full atonement.
 
My God was repeated because the first my God had no reply.
Verse 2 of psalm 22 has: “without listening to the words of my suffering”.
God didn’t abandon his son but only for an instant let him without reply.
 
Wm777 said:
Then He ended by commending even Himself - who had “become evil” by taking the sins of the entire world upon Himself - to God.
Click to expand...
You might be thinking of the verse,

2 Corinthians 5:21
“For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

You can read how Joe Heschmeyer explains The correct interpretation On the website below.

I believe this is a pivotal distinction between Catholics and Protestants that influences our understanding of salvation, And our own personal sufferings. Read more on the fathers as explained by a Dave Armstrong link on the right side near the top On the page below

Jesus Forsaken on the Cross ?

https://www.defendingthebride.com/je/forsaken.html

John
 
Jesus had always been in contact with God the Father… of which in turn God Present could be realized as being a perfect support of FAITH… On His very Cross with All the difficulties for Jesus associated with it, the Father withdrew His Presence to Jesus - so that Jesus would have to totally stand on His own two Feet with regard to Faith… and thus adding to the difficulties - and yet, as with Job, Jesus never ever lost Faith…
 
Last edited:
I always liked the Fourth Cup hypothesis. It is intriguing to say the least.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top