Did God want Adam and Eve to sin?

[Robert_Sock]

According to the Tanya from Chabad, God wanted them to sin as a means of elevating their souls to a higher level than if they had not sinned. They claim this for all of humanity.

 

[dshix]

According to the Tanya from Chabad, God wanted them to sin as a means of elevating their souls to a higher level than if they had not sinned. They claim this for all of humanity.

No, I do not believe God would have considered their sin as the best possibility.

They (and the human race) would have done much more glory to God and averted much more of the horrible atrocities that have occurred. Furthermore, no person in the world is now capable of reaching a higher level of holiness then a person with no sin would have had.

 

[silentfactor80]

According to the Tanya from Chabad, God wanted them to sin as a means of elevating their souls to a higher level than if they had not sinned. They claim this for all of humanity.

Seeing as how Jesus never sinned and is much higher than us I would say that it total nonsense.

 

[meltzerboy]

According to the Tanya from Chabad, God wanted them to sin as a means of elevating their souls to a higher level than if they had not sinned. They claim this for all of humanity.

The most interesting interpretation of the Garden of Eden story and the sin of Adam and Eve I ever read was that the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was actually the Tree of the Union of Good and Evil, since the same Hebrew word for “knowledge” was used to describe the marital “union” of Adam and Eve. Thus when Adam and Eve disobeyed G-d by eating the fruit from the tree, they lost their intellectual ability to distinguish between the absolutes of good and evil. Instead, they relied on their emotional feelings. Even when Eve first looked at the tree, plucked the fruit, and tasted it, she was relying on sensory experience rather than reason. Thus, to this day, we are often confused regarding what is good and what is bad since we have lost the rational ability to distinguish between the two.

But with regard to your question, did G-d WANT Adam and Eve to sin? Much as I respect the Tanya, I don’t agree with the unusual interpretation. I’m more convinced by the traditional meaning in Judaism that G-d was testing their free will by means of His angel, Lucifer, but did NOT want them to disobey Him. However, it is stated in Judaism that repentance from sin can raise one to a level of love and reverence that one would not have had before. And multidimensional interpretations are hardly unknown to Judaism. So maybe…

 

[thenobes]

The most interesting interpretation of the Garden of Eden story and the sin of Adam and Eve I ever read was that the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was actually the Tree of the Union of Good and Evil, since the same Hebrew word for “knowledge” was used to describe the marital “union” of Adam and Eve. Thus when Adam and Eve disobeyed G-d by eating the fruit from the tree, they lost their intellectual ability to distinguish between the absolutes of good and evil. Instead, they relied on their emotional feelings. Even when Eve first looked at the tree, plucked the fruit, and tasted it, she was relying on sensory experience rather than reason. Thus, to this day, we are often confused regarding what is good and what is bad since we have lost the rational ability to distinguish between the two.

That’s the neatest explanation I’ve ever heard! The meaning is just staring the reader in the face!

wow!

WOW!

Thanks for sharing that!!

peace
steve

 

[Robert_Sock]

Did Adam and Eve live in a world of good and evil? How else could Satan have tempted Eve? Eating the fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil simply made them aware of the good and evil that existed in the Garden of Eden. We must remember that God works for the good in all things, and the sins of Adam and Eve is being used by God to eventually elevate our world by eventually destroying evil? Something that would not have happened if Adam and Eve did not sin.

I consider my post filled with conjecture that may not be entirely correct, but the fact that Chabad supports this view make really wonder if God wanted Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

 

[mcrts]

Did Adam and Eve live in a world of good and evil? How else could Satan have tempted Eve? Eating the fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil simply made them aware of the good and evil that existed in the Garden of Eden. We must remember that God works for the good in all things, and the sins of Adam and Eve is being used by God to eventually elevate our world by eventually destroying evil? Something that would not have happened if Adam and Eve did not sin.

I consider my post filled with conjecture that may not be entirely correct, but the fact that Chabad supports this view make really wonder if God wanted Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The thing is God would not have used evil to attain good. That is a Machiavellian way of looking at things- “the ends justify the means”. God is not like that. The fact is, we messed up through our free will. He came in and turned our wrong choice into good.

 

[fhansen]

The thing is God would not have used evil to attain good. That is a Machiavellian way of looking at things- “the ends justify the means”. God is not like that. The fact is, we messed up through our free will. He came in and turned our wrong choice into good.

I agree with this. Otherwise heaven won’t really be any better than hell, seeing as the main Character in heaven would actually be the author of sin.

 

[Newbie2]

Nope. Not in Catholic thought, anyway.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The thing is God would not have used evil to attain good. That is a Machiavellian way of looking at things- “the ends justify the means”. God is not like that. The fact is, we messed up through our free will. He came in and turned our wrong choice into good.

Will humankind be better or worse off from the sin of Adam and Eve. We must believe that in everything, God works for the good.

 

[Aloysium]

Will humankind be better or worse off from the sin of Adam and Eve. We must believe that in everything, God works for the good.

We are separated from God as a result of sin.
As to the future, some of us will bring ourselves into the burning lake of fire.
As I see it, we are most definitely worse off.

 

[Michael_Allen]

Will humankind be better or worse off from the sin of Adam and Eve. We must believe that in everything, God works for the good.

I think we must believe that God had/has sufficient purpose for allowing the sin of Adam, the turning away of mankind from God. If evil is unnecessary then what sort of God would allow it, and the associated purposeless sufferings? “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam” as the Exusltet proclaims, though I can’t say I fully understand the necessity of evil.

 

[Aloysium]

I think we must believe that God had/has sufficient purpose for allowing the sin of Adam, the turning away of mankind from God. If evil is unnecessary then what sort of God would allow it, and the associated purposeless sufferings? “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam” as the Exusltet proclaims, though I can’t say I fully understand the necessity of evil.

God permits sin because the alternative is the destruction of our spiritual soul, of free will.
But God through the cross, has taken on our sins so that we may be saved; in doing so He demonstrated the infinite depths of His love for us.
Evil is purposeless and unnecessary as far as I can see.
Why is evil permitted? Because it is a choice that must be available to us, if we are to freely choose love.

 

[steve_b]

According to the Tanya from Chabad, God wanted them to sin as a means of elevating their souls to a higher level than if they had not sinned. They claim this for all of humanity.

Please read Predestinarianism God does NOT will someone to sin. Notice all the various heresies surrounding such an idea.

 

[meltzerboy]

Please read Predestinarianism God does NOT will someone to sin. Notice all the various heresies surrounding such an idea.

Predestination is also a heresy in Judaism, which strongly believes in humans’ free will. That’s why the portion of the Tanya that Robert cites is so puzzling to me. As my earlier post suggested, it may be that despite sinful behavior, one can achieve heights of holiness by means of repentance that are otherwise unattainable, but this is not the same as saying that G-d wants or wills sin.

 

[catholictiger]

this is absurd to think this could be true. Sin is evil, evil is a deprivation of the Good, God is all Good, therefore God can’t will for someone to sin, it is against his nature. Adam and Eve because they had free will they sinned against God and against Man and eat of the tree of good and evil. God didn’t will this to be this way, but God knew that this would happen and he sent his only son to redeem us by his blood.

 

[catholictiger]

Predestination is also a heresy in Judaism, which strongly believes in humans’ free will. That’s why the portion of the Tanya that Robert cites is so puzzling to me. As my earlier post suggested, it may be that despite sinful behavior, one can achieve heights of holiness by means of repentance that are otherwise unattainable, but this is not the same as saying that G-d wants or wills sin.

actually Catholics believe in predestination, but disagree with double predestination. All men are predestined for heaven BUT we can be closed to taht grace and therefore reject God and reject heaven. Double predestination says that God chooses where men go after they die and we have no say in it in anyway. Predestination is different in the fact that god predestines all man to heaven but if we aren’t docile to that grace through Jesus Christ we can’t enjoy the fruits of heaven because of our own fault. God wills that no one goes to hell but his Justice requires that some people do.

 

[steve_b]

**Predestination **is also a heresy in Judaism, which strongly believes in humans’ free will. That’s why the portion of the Tanya that Robert cites is so puzzling to me. As my earlier post suggested, it may be that despite sinful behavior, one can achieve heights of holiness by means of repentance that are otherwise unattainable, but this is not the same as saying that G-d wants or wills sin.

I think you meant to say predestinarianism …true?

 

[meltzerboy]

I think you meant to say predestinarianism …true?

Reading the link from the Catholic Encyclopedia, generally I would say Judaism is opposed to predestinarianism, even if not for exactly the same reasons and in every detail as in Catholicism.

 

[steve_b]

Reading the link from the Catholic Encyclopedia, generally I would say Judaism is opposed to predestinarianism, even if not for exactly the same reasons and in every detail as in Catholicism.

In your previous post forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10535643&postcount=15 I was keyed in on free will with my response, which I think we both agree on. I’m not familiar with the Tanya so I can’t comment.

Predestinarianism otoh, is a heresy for many reasons. I think we can agree, 2 of which

• It is an offense to God’s Divinity and His very nature
• It’s a contradiction to our free will which He gave all of us.