Did Hitler disprove faith alone (and you can never lose your salvation)?

[Harry123]

Hitler was baptized and received Holy communion. This means he accepted (or at least appeared to accept) Jesus as his lord and savior.

So according to “once saved always saved”, hitler must have gone to heaven regardless of what he did during WW2.

Is this a good argument to use against people who claim “once saved always saved”?

 

[Expatreprocedit]

The same Christians who hold to “once saved always saved” tend to think that Catholics and Orthodox are not saved, so no, I don’t think there is an argument there.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We have no idea where Hitler went after he died, so you have no evidence to back up an argument one way or the other.

 

[commenter]

Hitler was baptized and received Holy communion. This means he accepted (or at least appeared to accept) Jesus as his lord and savior.

So according to “once saved always saved”, hitler must have gone to heaven regardless of what he did during WW2.

Is this a good argument to use against people who claim “once saved always saved”?

No, it is not a good argument. Hitler was baptized Catholic, but left the Faith. OSAS supporters would say he never really accepted Christ, especially since he was once Catholic, so he does not fall under that criterion. When (or if) he received First Communion, it would have been as a young child anyway, not really a voluntary decision for Christ, in their eyes.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Hitler was baptized and received Holy communion. This means he accepted (or at least appeared to accept) Jesus as his lord and savior.

So according to “once saved always saved”, hitler must have gone to heaven regardless of what he did during WW2.

Is this a good argument to use against people who claim “once saved always saved”?

Hitler wasn’t a Christian. He had to tolerate Christianity in order to keep the Resistance limited as 98% of Germany was Christian.

 

[Harry123]

Ok. Fair enough.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Hitler was baptized Catholic, but left the Faith.

So I guess he was Catholic, since he was baptized as such. I wonder if his parish records kept him on the rolls.

 

[TeenCatholicGuy]

So I guess he was Catholic, since he was baptized as such. I wonder if his parish records kept him on the rolls.

After all the sins he committed willingly and intentionally, it is extremely unlikely he got anywhere near Heaven.

If he did, we’ll find out when we die.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Hitler wasn’t a Christian. He had to tolerate Christianity in order to keep the Resistance limited as 98% of Germany was Christian.

Appearances can be deceiving. If Germany was 98% Christian, the Nazi Party would never have gotten 40% of the vote in a free election. If Italy was a Catholic country, they never would have tolerated Mussolini.

 

[DaveBj]

Hitler was baptized and received Holy communion. . . snip

And confirmed.

 

[Gertabelle]

After all the sins he committed willingly and intentionally, it is extremely unlikely he got anywhere near Heaven.

If he did, we’ll find out when we die.

Speculation on the fate of another’s soul is dangerous business, dear. Jesus Himself warns against it time and time again.

Yes, the crimes of the entire Nazi regime brought hell to earth for a time. I get physically ill just thinking about the things I’ve learned about the death camps. If I dwell on it for even a short time, I feel such an anger well up inside me, I just can’t explain it – it’s like something inside me is screaming out for justice, for revenge, for unspeakable torment for every man and woman who did those things.

But as for the fate of one’s soul, that is between an individual and God. If even one man or woman repented of their sins against God’s children, the angels in heaven would rejoice! And even the very leader of the Nazis would be forgiven by God if he found a way to truly repent and have remorse for his sins.

As Catholics, we have the outrageous charge to love our enemies, and to pray for those who persecute us – and that would mean after their deaths as well. God will supply the grace to do so. We must cooperate with that grace.

 

[vsedriver]

Appearances can be deceiving. If Germany was 98% Christian, the Nazi Party would never have gotten 40% of the vote in a free election. If Italy was a Catholic country, they never would have tolerated Mussolini.

and if America had been a Christian country it would have taken in the Jewish refugees that were fleeing German just before the war.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

And confirmed.

So I’m curious if Catholics claim him as one of your own. I assume (or at least I have read) that he went to Mass at times and he was in communication with the Vatican. There were certainly priests who were supporters. Is he still seen as Catholic? (I’m not trying to say anything at all about his horrific actions, but rather his membership in the RCC.) Same goes for Mussolini. He was baptized, married and buried in the Church. Admittedly, it was a rocky relationship from the beginning, but it seems as if it was one in good standing, as it were.

Once Catholic, always Catholic? Sy Noe, this is your terrain.

 

[Estevao]

There is a book written by his young adult friend August Kubizek, “The Young Hitler I knew”, which reveals that Hitler was an apostate by his 20s.

Also in 1930, the German Catholic bishops excommunicated all members of the Nazi Party. Since the famous ones, AFAIK, never attempted to gain re-communion, they died excommunicated. Catholic areas of Germany were also notably less likely to vote Nazi. This is of course in contradistinction to the Protestant churches of Germany which were much more amenable to the Nazis and whose predominant areas voted majority Nazi.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Terrible argument to make.

As a protestant, Hitler’s status was just further confirmation for me(no pun intended) that Catholic sacraments were meaningless rituals.

 

[venite_adoremus]

No, Hitler did not disprove faith alone. Next question, please.

 

[mVitus]

So I’m curious if Catholics claim him as one of your own. I assume (or at least I have read) that he went to Mass at times and he was in communication with the Vatican. There were certainly priests who were supporters. Is he still seen as Catholic? (I’m not trying to say anything at all about his horrific actions, but rather his membership in the RCC.) Same goes for Mussolini. He was baptized, married and buried in the Church. Admittedly, it was a rocky relationship from the beginning, but it seems as if it was one in good standing, as it were.

Once Catholic, always Catholic? Sy Noe, this is your terrain.

Well given that even an excommunication does not, to my knowledge, make someone no longer Catholic, it would appear he was Catholic, alibi non-practicing and without access to the sacraments, except in danger of death.

 

[ltwin]

First off, let me began by saying that I do believe in the doctrine of sola fide, but I do not believe in the teaching known as “once saved always saved” or more formally as “eternal security”.

Hitler was baptized and received Holy communion. This means he accepted (or at least appeared to accept) Jesus as his lord and savior.

Anyone can be baptized. Some churches practice infant baptism, and therefore the child does not have faith but is baptized on the pledge that he or she will be raised in the Christian religion. Even then, the child will eventually have to place his or her faith in Christ to receive salvation. This may or may not happen.

Some churches practice believers baptism in which one must be able to express their faith in Christ before being baptized. Even in this scenario a person could lie about having faith and is simply being baptized for some other reason (familial or societal expectation perhaps).

So as others have said, Hitler being baptized (whether as an infant or even as the head of the Nazi Party) does not disprove faith alone. It only demonstrates that the confession of the mouth must express what is truly believed in the heart.

So according to “once saved always saved”, hitler must have gone to heaven regardless of what he did during WW2.

Christians who believe in once saved always saved typically reject a belief in baptismal regeneration. Therefore, they would tell you that neither baptism nor communion have anything to do with making someone a Christian.

Furthermore, the argument they would give you is that if Hitler truly had faith then he would not have done what he did–because people who have the Love of God in their hearts don’t typically go around committing genocide.

Is this a good argument to use against people who claim “once saved always saved”?

No. People who teach once saved always saved are not Antinomians. They still believe that Christians are accountable for following moral law. They just reject the notion that someone who is truly saved can ever be lost. Christians may go through periods of trial and temptation and even fall into sin but eventually they will repent and their lives will show the fruits of sanctification.

If no sanctification is evident, they would say, its a pretty good indication that perhaps that person was not truly saved at all.

 

[Sarcelle]

So I’m curious if Catholics claim him as one of your own. I assume (or at least I have read) that he went to Mass at times and he was in communication with the Vatican. There were certainly priests who were supporters. Is he still seen as Catholic? (I’m not trying to say anything at all about his horrific actions, but rather his membership in the RCC.) Same goes for Mussolini. He was baptized, married and buried in the Church. Admittedly, it was a rocky relationship from the beginning, but it seems as if it was one in good standing, as it were.

Once Catholic, always Catholic? Sy Noe, this is your terrain.

We Catholics do claim him as one of our own. He did evil things and encouraged evil things. But this is not a function of being Catholic. Being Catholic does not make you do evil things.

All he did was take advantage of the already existing anti-Semitism in Germany at the time. This along with tough economic conditions helped him got to where he did. So the crack about Europe being Christian as the cause of the Holocaust is questionable. It is anti-Semitism not Catholicism.

By the way, anti-Semitism is still alive and well in Europe and we cannot say that Europeans are more devout Christians now than before.

 

[Sarcelle]

Terrible argument to make.

As a protestant, Hitler’s status was just further confirmation for me(no pun intended) that Catholic sacraments were meaningless rituals.

Catholic sacraments are not meaningless rituals but they do depend on the state of your interior disposition.