Did I go to a Tridentine Mass?

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I went to a little church for Mass this morning, for what the church’s website called a Tridentine Mass, because I’d never been to one before. I did a bit of reading as to what to expect, but I didn’t bring a missal, and didn’t look for one at the church itself, though I think they did have a few there.

And I noticed that there were a few things that weren’t like I expected them to be. For instance, the majority of the Mass was in Latin, but the readings were given directly in English, and there was not a Gradual, either. At the end of the Mass, there was no Last Gospel.

This church is an inter-city parish - I think the oldest in the city, actually - and does not seem to have any issues with the diocese, so I was wondering what sort of Mass I went to? :confused:
 
What was the Gospel reading? For the 1962 missal it’s the wedding at Cana; for the newer missal it takes place at the Jordan, “Behold the Lamb of God” … “We have found the Messiah,” etc.
 
And I noticed that there were a few things that weren’t like I expected them to be. For instance, the majority of the Mass was in Latin, but the readings were given directly in English, and there was not a Gradual, either. At the end of the Mass, there was no Last Gospel.
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Some parishes say the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, but this is not the same as the Tridentine Mass. It’s simply the new Mass said in Latin.

Did the priest face the parishioners during Mass, or face the altar? If there was no Gradual, and no last Gospel, I am guessing that it was a Novus Ordo Mass said in Latin.
 
It was the Wedding of Cana.

And another thing I just remembered - the priest mentioned getting to pick the epistle reading himself, which I was surprised to hear. Though I may have simply misheard or understood him, since he was reading out of a lectionary - which he pointed out because he forgot to set it out before Mass started, and had to fetch it.
 
beleg said:
It was the Wedding of Cana.

And another thing I just remembered - the priest mentioned getting to pick the epistle reading himself, which I was surprised to hear. Though I may have simply misheard or understood him, since he was reading out of a lectionary - which he pointed out because he forgot to set it out before Mass started, and had to fetch it.
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Yes, that is the Second Sunday after the Epiphany in the EF. The epistle should have been Romans 12: 6-16.
 
The Epistle was also Romans - I must have misunderstood what the priest said.

But why were they not given at all in Latin? And I know for a fact that the Last Gospel wasn’t read.
 
Pope Benedict’s Apostolic Letter “Summorum Pontificum” states:

Art. 6. In Masses with a congregation celebrated according to the Missal of Blessed John XXIII, the readings may be proclaimed also in the vernacular, using editions approved by the Apostolic See.

When the letter was issued, there was discussion and debate whether this meant the vernacular could be used instead of the Latin for the readings, or in addition to it. It seems the PCED has interpreted this to mean that in fact the vernacular readings can (but do not have to) be substituted for the Latin.

I don’t know why the priest omitted the Last Gospel. FYI, the Last Gospel can be (and often is) read silently, or while the recessional is beginning, so that those in the congregation might not hear it.
 
What I imagine may have happened is the Introit, Gradual, Epistle, and Gospel were recited in Latin without you even realizing it and the priest simply recited the the Epistle and Gospel again in English for the congregation’s benefit, as is usually the case in Extraordinary Form Masses offered today.

Was the Mass offered Ad Orientem? The final gospel is read silently after the dismissal. Did the congregation genuflect after the dismissal with the priest still up at the altar? If so this was likely during the final gospel.

Also, “Tridentine Mass” isn’t a good term for the Extraordinary Form as the Mass in that form certainly predates the Council of Trent.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
Pope Benedict’s Apostolic Letter “Summorum Pontificum” states:

Art. 6. In Masses with a congregation celebrated according to the Missal of Blessed John XXIII, the readings may be proclaimed also in the vernacular, using editions approved by the Apostolic See.

When the letter was issued, there was discussion and debate whether this meant the vernacular could be used instead of the Latin for the readings, or in addition to it. It seems the PCED has interpreted this to mean that in fact the vernacular readings can (but do not have to) be substituted for the Latin.

I don’t know why the priest omitted the Last Gospel. FYI, the Last Gospel can be (and often is) read silently, or while the recessional is beginning, so that those in the congregation might not hear it.
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I believe there was a clarification later on this in that the vernacular can substitute for the Latin in Missa recitata (read or Low Mass). IOW, if it’s sung, then it has to be in Latin.
 
ProVobis said:
I believe there was a clarification later on this in that the vernacular can substitute for the Latin in Missa recitata (read or Low Mass). IOW, if it’s sung, then it has to be in Latin.
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To me article 6 seems to suggest that the readings can also be read in English, in addition to the Latin as prescribed in the Missal of Pope Saint John XXIII. Having them ONLY in English in my mind sort of defeats the purpose of even offering the EF Mass. Even in the OF I think the propers should be in Latin; at least HH John XXIII would have agreed.

Do you know where the clarification letter can be found? I’ve never been to an EF Mass where that had been done.
 
I believe Servus is correct. The Epistle is read in Latin while the priest is facing the Altar. Then the book is moved to the opposite side of the Altar where he reads the Gospel (this is a low Mass). He then removes the maniple and places it across the book. He then goes to the lecturn where he reads the Epistle and Gospel in english. Then he reads any announcements and gives his homily.

Does this help any?
 
  1. As foreseen by article 6 of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, the readings of the Holy Mass of the Missal of 1962 can be proclaimed either solely in the Latin language, or in Latin followed by the vernacular or, in Low Masses, solely in the vernacular.
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vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/documents/rc_com_ecclsdei_doc_20110430_istr-universae-ecclesiae_en.html

Personally I have not seen or heard vernacular being the sole language of the readings in the EF.

No complaints, though. Various translations are provided in the handmissals or handouts or at the beginning of the sermon.
 
corsair said:
I believe Servus is correct. The Epistle is read in Latin while the priest is facing the Altar. Then the book is moved to the opposite side of the Altar where he reads the Gospel (this is a low Mass). He then removes the maniple and places it across the book. He then goes to the lecturn where he reads the Epistle and Gospel in english. Then he reads any announcements and gives his homily.

Does this help any?
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I remember him moving to the ends of the altar, and saying things quietly while the choir was chanting the Kyrie and Gloria. Perhaps that is what he was doing. I suppose my whole confusion about this is because I was expecting more things to be said out loud for the congregation to hear as well.

Thank y’all for your help - I’ve learned quite a bit about the Extraordinary Mass from all this. If I go back next week, I’ll try to sit closer to the front (I was in the dead back, so I could see when to kneel and stand), and maybe I’ll hear the priest better.
 
ProVobis said:
  1. As foreseen by article 6 of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, the readings of the Holy Mass of the Missal of 1962 can be proclaimed either solely in the Latin language, or in Latin followed by the vernacular or, in Low Masses, solely in the vernacular.
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Interesting.
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beleg said:
I remember him moving to the ends of the altar, and saying things quietly while the choir was chanting the Kyrie and Gloria. Perhaps that is what he was doing. I suppose my whole confusion about this is because I was expecting more things to be said out loud for the congregation to hear as well.

Thank y’all for your help - I’ve learned quite a bit about the Extraordinary Mass from all this. If I go back next week, I’ll try to sit closer to the front (I was in the dead back, so I could see when to kneel and stand), and maybe I’ll hear the priest better.
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I’ve never actually noticed what the priest does while we sing the Kyrie as my face is buried in sheet music. Doesn’t he sit down for the Gloria? The propers are sung by the schola in a High Mass, including the Gradual. I believe the priest also recites them quietly while the choir is singing. The Epistle and Gospel are of course chanted by the priest. Perhaps you were at the Mass I was cantoring. 😃 Low masses are very quiet because we are there to pray. Do go back, you’ll soon fall in love with the EF.
 
beleg said:
The Epistle was also Romans - I must have misunderstood what the priest said.

But why were they not given at all in Latin? And I know for a fact that the Last Gospel wasn’t read.
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I attended a Catholic elementary school from 1951 until 1959. I was also an alter server during my last three years of elementary school. Students attended Mass at the beginning of every school day and of course the Mass was the Tridentine Mass. The Epistle (there was but one) and the Gospel were always, and without exception, said in English. This is was true of every Church where I attended Mass until the inception of the new OF of the Mass said in the vernacular. This was the practice. Only the alter servers said the Latin responses, and one had to have memorized all the Latin responses and know when to reply with the correct response, in Latin, to become an altar server.
 
corsair said:
I believe Servus is correct. The Epistle is read in Latin while the priest is facing the Altar. Then the book is moved to the opposite side of the Altar where he reads the Gospel (this is a low Mass). He then removes the maniple and places it across the book. He then goes to the lecturn where he reads the Epistle and Gospel in english. Then he reads any announcements and gives his homily.

Does this help any?
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This is correct. I attended a Catholic elementary school from 1951-1959, and students were required to attend Mass at the beginning of every school day. It was of course a Tridentine Mass. During my last three years of elementary school, I was an altar server. There were normally two altar servers during a low Mass and four during a High Mass. The altar server on the right moved the book to the opposite side of the altar after the Epistle was said and then moved it back to its original side after the Gospel was said. I did this many times. Only the servers gave the Latin responses.
 
beleg said:
maybe I’ll hear the priest better.
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That’s fine, but keep in mind that the traditional Mass is a different experience, and our participation is a little different. It emphasizes more the unique role of the priest as the principal offerer of the sacrifice. He uses (I think) three levels of voice, one of which is nearly inaudible even to the altar servers. That voice (essentially a whisper) is used when he is most solemnly exercising his priestly office (e.g. the Canon of the Mass). We can of course follow along in our missals, even silently pray along, taking cues from his movements; but we should not expect to hear every word he says, or think that we are thereby excluded from the sacrifice.
 
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