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Princess_Abby
Guest
It wasn’t the pope, she might have gotten it confused. It was a priest in South Africa and it completely outraged most of the practicing Catholics worldwide.
catholicherald.com/saunders/98ws/ws980416.htm
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catholicherald.com/saunders/98ws/ws980416.htm
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Mom_of_5
Guest
Princess Abby, thank you! Yes it was a priest in South Africa. the pope did nothing to dicipline the priest. www.cwnew.com has the story as well. I still don’t know how any of us feel justified to judge the soul. We can NEVER say that someone definetly commited a mortal sin, we have to give that job to God. We judge actions, but we all know that we can mis-judge actions as well.
My sister told me many times that I had committed mortal sins and should go to confession before communion. Fact was, I didn’t commit mortal sin as she “judged”. She does not go to church now and talks very badly about the church. We’d be better off in the eyes of God and man to just take care of our own soul and try to help others gently and sincerely, with good example and prayer. In my life time I have seen the over-zealous and over-pious leave the church while those who use common sense and humility as their guide, go the lifetime in the loving arms of the Church.
Sorry, I become outraged when I see Catholics so quick to call others “mortal” sinners. At Chistmas Eve mass, I was trying to find a place for my SIL and myself to sit. The church was packed.
SIL is DD and uses a walker, sometimes in a wheel chair. That night she was using her walker. NO one got up and offered her a place to sit, not even the lady who is Eucharistic Minister. When she saw us coming to sit in the space next to her, she put her granddaughters coat in the space and looked away. She was saving the space for her Eucharistic Minister husband to sit. We finally lucked out and a family was kind enough to sit a bit closer giving us a place to sit. My husband stood through most of the Mass and so it seemed that other healthy persons could have as well. As I watched the pious lady hand out communion, I made the decision to stand in line for one of the priests. I can’t judge her soul but her actions were not Christ-like.
Amen!
Love and peace
Mom of 5
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tomaskovarik
Guest
God is not as pathetic as you guys are trying to portray Him, please grow up and leave the Middle Ages’ theology behind and concentrate on what is really important!
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seabird3579
Guest
Well, well, well…SO, it was NOT the Pope afterall, hmnn!
Just goes to show you that people will be fast and loose with Catholic doctrine and theology when they do not value it the way the saints did!
No, the Pope would never do such a thing.
Mom of 5:
Are you sure about that? Are you sure the local Bishop ‘did nothing’? It seems Father Saunders in his commentary is completely outraged about the Clintons being allowed to receive Holy Communion (as most Devout Catholics would be) and goes on to point out the gross violation of Church teaching and the scandal that followed due to this abuse.
Mom of 5:
False, we *Can know * when mortal sins have been committed and any priest who knowlingly gives holy communion to a member “known” to be living a sinful lifestyle or in direct Opposition to the teachings of the Church, would himself be highly accountable for his actions. And, society *can know * in certain obvious instances, even though private sin may remain private and the person brings condemnation upon him or herself IF he or she knowingly receives communion before confessing the sin.
The Church’s teaches are not vague, and they are not to be ignored without serious consequences. I leave you with a piece of Father Saunders article to review:
"A Catholic must be in a state of grace to receive Holy Communion and anyone aware of being in a state of mortal sin must first receive absolution in the Sacrament of Penance (Catechism, No. 1415). A professed Catholic who has negligently not attended Mass or who has abandoned the teachings of the Church is not in a state of grace and therefore cannot receive Holy Communion. A Catholic in a state of mortal sin who receives Holy Communion commits the mortal sin of sacrilege and causes scandal among the faithful. St. Paul reminded the Corinthians: “Every time, then, you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes! This means that whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily sins against the body and blood of the Lord. A man should examine himself first; only then should he eat of the bread and drink of the cup” (1 Cor 11:26-28).
Exceptions are made for extreme and rare circumstances (cf. Code of Canon Law, No. 844). An example would be when a member of the Orthodox Church, which does have valid sacraments and apostolic succession, does not have access to an Orthodox Church for the reception of the sacraments. …However, these exceptions to the rule for individual cases should not be interpreted as the norm, and they are carefully regulated by the local bishop.
Since Clinton was educated at Georgetown University, where he must have gained some familiarity with Catholicism, since his protocol officers should know the Church’s rules, and since they have attended Masses before, the. Clintons should have known better and refrained from receiving Holy Communion.
The priest celebrant of the Mass should also have known better. …Better to risk embarrassing someone who has no right to receive Holy Communion than to cause scandal among the faithful who cherish the Blessed Sacrament and consider reception of Holy Communion a privilege."
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Mom_of_5
Guest
Seabird,
I called my big sis and told her the info she gave me was wrong, wrong, wrong. I told her what really happened. She insists that she is right. I really don’t care. She is a little old and set in her ways so she will believe what she wants to believe, like MANY (or all) of us.
Now then, I asked God for forgiveness for passing on big sis’s version of the Clinton’s communion. I went to Mass, prayed for forgiveness, recieved communion, then, I came home and read your remarks. I think now I have to ask your forgiveness and from the way you word your response, I think it will be more difficult to get absolution from you than from HIM! I believe there is something in the scriptures that tells us that we will be VERY surprised at who is and is not in heaven.
Love and peace,
Mom of 5
I called my big sis and told her the info she gave me was wrong, wrong, wrong. I told her what really happened. She insists that she is right. I really don’t care. She is a little old and set in her ways so she will believe what she wants to believe, like MANY (or all) of us.
Now then, I asked God for forgiveness for passing on big sis’s version of the Clinton’s communion. I went to Mass, prayed for forgiveness, recieved communion, then, I came home and read your remarks. I think now I have to ask your forgiveness and from the way you word your response, I think it will be more difficult to get absolution from you than from HIM! I believe there is something in the scriptures that tells us that we will be VERY surprised at who is and is not in heaven.
Love and peace,
Mom of 5
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Seabird, I understand that we can know if an action is grave matter and therefore objectively sinful, but how do we judge if someone has full knowledge and the will to do it anyway?
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CatQuilt
Guest
Yes, it’s called fraternal correction and I had to do the same thing at Christmas Mass. I’ve glad my husband and daughter came to Mass with me but my husband hasn’t been to Mass in a year and hadn’t gone to confession either. Therefore it would have been a mortal sin for him to receive communion.
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seabird3579
Guest
Mom of 5:
It does sound as though you have a lot of emotional issues related to the practice of Catholicism. I don’t doubt you when you say you had a “judgmental” older sister, many have. And, I hope I have not brought back memories of undue hammerings by your sister for irrelavant reasons.
But, you must understand, Catholics who love and cherish their Faith have witnessed over the past generation in particular, a disrespect, complacency and sometimes an outright assault upon the core teachings of the Church. Before we would sit quietly and take it, now, many of us will not!
What is grave sin and what *is not * can be learned from the Catechism.
Where the confusion comes in, at times, is that some parish priests and others, will not uphold what the Catechism teaches. Sometimes, even in the Confessional.
Therefore, if Catholics love their Faith, they must research on their own and hold themselves accountable before God, as the Chuch teaches not as a local priest postulates.
If what relatives or clergy postulate disagrees with the Catechism and the core teachings of the Church, they are simply wrong.
Unfortunately, that does not excuse any of us from “not knowing.” Frequently, we must find out on our own.
The Magisterium in Rome is the final authority, however, priests are first responsible to their bishops for any wrongdoing. Their counsel will most likely be private and the parish may never know about it. It does not mean the priest has not been given correction counsel. This may well have happened in South Africa and we may never know.
You may not know this about me, but I am one of the most forgiving people around. I am forgiving because I have been forgiven much myself by Christ my Lord. But, in order to be forgiven, people must first acknowledge (within themselves) that they have sinned.
In today’s culture, it is common practice to justify or rationalize sin rather that admit it for what it is. It takes Humility to admit sin and, it is always Pride that resists admitting it.
If you break down the terminology – Sin is breaking your relationship with God, Humility is admitting you’ve made an error, and Confession is reconciliation with Him.
Without that reconciliation for a grave error, we should not present ourselves to Communion.
Fortunately, Holy Communion helps us with venial sins and by all means we should go to Communion often to seek help for venial sins.
Mom of 5, I hope this answer lands a little softer, God bless you in all your endeavors.
Brenda
Mom of 5,
It does sound as though you have a lot of emotional issues related to the practice of Catholicism. I don’t doubt you when you say you had a “judgmental” older sister, many have. And, I hope I have not brought back memories of undue hammerings by your sister for irrelavant reasons.
But, you must understand, Catholics who love and cherish their Faith have witnessed over the past generation in particular, a disrespect, complacency and sometimes an outright assault upon the core teachings of the Church. Before we would sit quietly and take it, now, many of us will not!
What is grave sin and what *is not * can be learned from the Catechism.
Where the confusion comes in, at times, is that some parish priests and others, will not uphold what the Catechism teaches. Sometimes, even in the Confessional.
Therefore, if Catholics love their Faith, they must research on their own and hold themselves accountable before God, as the Chuch teaches not as a local priest postulates.
If what relatives or clergy postulate disagrees with the Catechism and the core teachings of the Church, they are simply wrong.
Unfortunately, that does not excuse any of us from “not knowing.” Frequently, we must find out on our own.
The Magisterium in Rome is the final authority, however, priests are first responsible to their bishops for any wrongdoing. Their counsel will most likely be private and the parish may never know about it. It does not mean the priest has not been given correction counsel. This may well have happened in South Africa and we may never know.
You may not know this about me, but I am one of the most forgiving people around. I am forgiving because I have been forgiven much myself by Christ my Lord. But, in order to be forgiven, people must first acknowledge (within themselves) that they have sinned.
In today’s culture, it is common practice to justify or rationalize sin rather that admit it for what it is. It takes Humility to admit sin and, it is always Pride that resists admitting it.
If you break down the terminology – Sin is breaking your relationship with God, Humility is admitting you’ve made an error, and Confession is reconciliation with Him.
Without that reconciliation for a grave error, we should not present ourselves to Communion.
Fortunately, Holy Communion helps us with venial sins and by all means we should go to Communion often to seek help for venial sins.
Mom of 5, I hope this answer lands a little softer, God bless you in all your endeavors.
Brenda
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DreadVandal
Guest
Well, we also have good reason to believe that 20-50% of the clergy are in some kind of homosexual relationship (or have been in one). Since they are so morally compromised, its hard to preach the hard line.
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DreadVandal
Guest
I made a mistake. I should have said, the Jiffy Puff mashmallow Person. I am sorry to have been so sexist and neanderthalish in my attempt to portray the contemporary God.
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DreadVandal
Guest
Blasted, here I go deleting my own post. The previous post was in response to a poster who suggested that we leave the middle ages theology behind, being that it portrays God so pathetically. I was wondering what was so pathetic about Aquinas, Bonaventure, Bernard, Catherine of Sienna, Meister Eckhart, and others and their portrayal of God? The contemporary version of God makes Him (oh excuse me, masculine pronoun), look like the Jiffy Puff Marshmallow man (person).
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wcknight
Guest
As with any mortal sin, the person has to KNOW it is a grave sin beforehand and does it anyway. What Magdalan could have done, was let mom know after mass that taking Communion while in the state of mortal sin is gravely wrong.
Making a scene right before the priest is not the time to do it. It not only is quite embarassing but may be considered rude. I have great respect for the Eucharist also. But we ought to have consideration for people’s feelings as well.
We can not expect a priest to decide on the spot who can or can not receive Communion. Even IF the priest knows someone personally, he can not make a split second decision like that.
In all likelihood the priest will give Communion to whoever approaches, including a President Clinton who everyone knows is not Catholic but also a sleazeball to boot.
IF you think someone should not receive Communion you should try to explain them beforehand what the teaching of the Church is, and how important Communion is to you personally.
St. Paul says, anyone who eats His Body or drinks His Blood unworthily drinks and eats judgement upon themselves. It is a very grave sin, but you have to know it is a sin before it is a mortal sin.
Making a scene right before the priest is not the time to do it. It not only is quite embarassing but may be considered rude. I have great respect for the Eucharist also. But we ought to have consideration for people’s feelings as well.
We can not expect a priest to decide on the spot who can or can not receive Communion. Even IF the priest knows someone personally, he can not make a split second decision like that.
In all likelihood the priest will give Communion to whoever approaches, including a President Clinton who everyone knows is not Catholic but also a sleazeball to boot.
IF you think someone should not receive Communion you should try to explain them beforehand what the teaching of the Church is, and how important Communion is to you personally.
St. Paul says, anyone who eats His Body or drinks His Blood unworthily drinks and eats judgement upon themselves. It is a very grave sin, but you have to know it is a sin before it is a mortal sin.
S
seabird3579
Guest
wcknight, I appreciate your compassion and I agree Magdalan did all she could, but many of us would disagree with you about telling someone **after ** Mass that they just committed a mortal sin.
It’s hard to believe that the mother didn’t know she was committing a mortal sin, and more easily believable that she didn’t care. Our Catholic culture has become so lax towards reverence for the Eucharist and most priests don’t speak about it in the pulpit unless the Eucharist is the designated homily.
I have Catholic relatives that have fallen away and some are conscientious of their need to go to Confession first, and others don’t care. They think just because they are at a religious function, its okay to do what everybody else is doing. They *know * better, they just don’t care.
Instruction is a great thing, but I do agree, it should have been handled before Mass.
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