Did I rightly bar family members from Eucharist?

[DreadVandal]

StephanieC:

How? Yes. Where? No.

No.

No.

Not a thing.

Madaglan, if I remember correctly, you are a college student? Am I correct to assume that you are still dependent on your parents financially?

I suggest you take some time to study the Catechism of the Catholic Church as it pertains to the 4th Commandment.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm

You will, in all likelihood, protest that there are guidelines, and rules and consequences for proper reception of the holy Eucharist. I believe that this is the paragraph that addresses it in the CCC (emphasis added in color is mine):

It sounds like you beat everybody to the punch & examined everyone else’s conscience for them.

Do you have a spiritual director? I’d really suggest finding one & talking over some of this in the context of maturing into a young adult.

I hope that you are at least mature enough to go and apologize to your mother, who was “still visibly traumatized” (your words) and then, if she is open to further discussion, lovingly explaining your beliefs.

Apologize? What for? If her parents hadn’t been to church in years and they no longer believed in the Church’s teachings, then they were committing sacriledge. I know many priests who would refuse them communion if they knew the facts. This girl has nothing to apologize for.

I don’t know what I would have done in that situation. Possibly the same thing; or I would have simply said, perhaps after Mass, that they were in danger of going to hell for committing a sacriledge and that that was something they should think about.

 

[DreadVandal]

contemplative:

StephanieC has given some good advice. When walking up to receive Holy Communion we should be focusing on ourselves in relation to God and not others…even our family members.

Most of the time it is all we can do to be prepared even in the least little bit to receive Our Lord let alone worry about the person next to us.
Also…
Allow the priest to do his job. He is quite capable.

How is the priest to know anything if he doesn’t know these people? Also, how could she anticipate before Mass that they were actually going to go up and receive communion? Sometimes, we must make split decision judgments and this was one of those occasions.

 

[DreadVandal]

Celeste88:

My husband is not Catholic and he received the Eucharist on Christmas day. He knows he’s not supposed to receive the host, I showed him the guidelines in the misselette before but he went anyway. As he is not a Catholic he does not believe in the real presence so for him is was like receiving a wafer from a Protestant minister. (he’s Lutheran). I don’t want to start arguments with him but I don’t know what more I can do. I rely on him to drive me to church on sundays so I can’t just tell him to stay home and not go to church.

I would simply inform the priest that your husband is not Catholic and does not believe in the real presence and leave it with him.

 

[DreadVandal]

StephanieC:

If reverence for Our Lord in the Eucharist is the supreme concern, then why did he stop when he did? Shouldn’t he have rushed up and tackled his mother, physically restraining her from receiving? Shouldn’t he asked his neighbors if they, too, were going to receive communion, and asked them if they were in a state of grace?

I’m being facetious, here.

Madaglan is an intelligent young man. It is highly likely that he has descended from an intelligent mother and an intelligent father, who have some familiarity with the Church’s teaching. His sister, who was baptized and confirmed Catholic (read: given some faith instruction), likely shares much of that beautiful DNA intelligence-wise.

My point is that when people know something is wrong and choose to do it anyway, the one who feels he is in a position to chastise them should choose the timing of that chastisement to effect the most change.
I mentioned finances only because the link I provided to the CCC spoke of the duties of children, and the difference between emancipated minors and dependents. I agree; the life we strive for is beyond measure to this one, but this kid’s attitude with his parents is gonna earn him some major time in purgatory!

I guess I’m coming at this from a “Catholic Family Living Forum” viewpoint, instead of a strict “Apologetics/Moral Theology Forum” approach.

Okay, you were caught off-guard. It happens. You still have some major fence-mending to do with your family. Go, and do it well–knock them over with your demonstration of Catholic Christian familial compassion! And then slip in a dose of (humble) catechesis.

For the record, Magdalan has no fence mending to do since he did nothing wrong. The best thing to do now is just pray for his family. Pray for conversion. Also, pray for the 75% or more of Catholics committing sacriledge every Sunday when they go to receive communion in a state of mortal sin because they haven’t been to confession in years and they are contracepting or committing some other grave sin.

 

[seabird3579]

DreadVandal:

The best thing to do now is just pray for his family. Pray for conversion. Also, pray for the 75% or more of Catholics committing sacriledge every Sunday when they go to receive communion in a state of mortal sin because they haven’t been to confession in years and they are contracepting or committing some other grave sin.

Sadly, this is true. Also, pray that priests will know how to respond correctly and will have the courage that their office demands of them.

Several years ago, I approached a new pastor at our local church parish about the blatant disrespect for the Eucharist that was going on during Mass. Children were walking up lack-a-daisical and their parents (in their 30s and 40s) were waving across the church to each other and smiling in the Communion line. It was as if they were at a social gathering and trying to give each other hand messages. Lots of giggling and animation, all while waiting to receive our Lord and Saviour, Body, Soul and Divinity.

The straw that broke the camels back is that one boy (about 11 years) received the host and let it drop to ground. Others walked right over the top of it without a care. My son pointed it out to me and he and I rushed over to pick up the pieces.

Several days later I felt strongly the Lord wanted me to bring attention to the issue to the pastor. I did one morning after daily Mass and he acted like I was making a big deal out of something people didn’t mean to do.

My message to him was that I was not placing blame on the children or their parents IF they have never been taught how and why to respect the Eucharist. What I was suggesting to him, I said, was that it would be helpful to the parish if he would make it a high priority to teach parents to respect the Eucharist. That way they could pass the practice down to their children.

He did not follow up with verbal teachings but I noticed that he tried to address the issue (in a very broad sense) in the bulletin.
Don’t know if much as changed there, I left for a new parish.

 

[DreadVandal]

seabird3579:

Sadly, this is true. Also, pray that priests will know how to respond correctly and will have the courage that their office demands of them.

Several years ago, I approached a new pastor at our local church parish about the blatant disrespect for the Eucharist that was going on during Mass. Children were walking up lack-a-daisical and their parents (in their 30s and 40s) were waving across the church to each other and smiling in the Communion line. It was as if they were at a social gathering and trying to give each other hand messages. Lots of giggling and animation, all while waiting to receive our Lord and Saviour, Body, Soul and Divinity.

The straw that broke the camels back is that one boy (about 11 years) received the host and let it drop to ground. Others walked right over the top of it without a care. My son pointed it out to me and he and I rushed over to pick up the pieces.

Several days later I felt strongly the Lord wanted me to bring attention to the issue to the pastor. I did one morning after daily Mass and he acted like I was making a big deal out of something people didn’t mean to do.

My message to him was that I was not placing blame on the children or their parents IF they have never been taught how and why to respect the Eucharist. What I was suggesting to him, I said, was that it would be helpful to the parish if he would make it a high priority to teach parents to respect the Eucharist. That way they could pass the practice down to their children.

He did not follow up with verbal teachings but I noticed that he tried to address the issue (in a very broad sense) in the bulletin.
Don’t know if much as changed there, I left for a new parish.

Man, I feel for you. My own view is that most people, perhaps even most priests, really don’t believe in the reality of hell. I am convinced that almost all people believe that everyone except Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, and Osama Bin Laden are going to heaven. The sad thing is that the Gospel suggests just the opposite. The road to heaven is narrow and few will take it. The road to hell is wide and most will end up on it. I don’t even exclude myself from the wide road. Knowing how often I, myself, fall into mortal sin, I just can’t imagine going to communion every Sunday with that on my conscience. How can people stand not to go to confession? Believe me I am not being self righteous. I am concerned for myself as well as everyone else. But if I am concerned for myself and I know that I have only a so-so chance of making it to heaven, what does that mean for those who have consciences that are so hardened that they will stomp on a host without caring as they process through the communion line. Can anyone be saved? I have heard that some saints have said that less than 1 in 100 Catholics will be saved. I don’t have a problem believing that. If only a handful were saved out of Sodom and Gamorrah, we should expect that perhaps 1 or 2% of Catholics will be saved (perhaps with 1 or 2% of humanity as a whole). Its all very sad. But then I remember that God is sovereign and if so few are saved, then ultimately, it is in accordance with His will.

 

[BillP]

DreadVandal:

we should expect that perhaps 1 or 2% of Catholics will be saved (perhaps with 1 or 2% of humanity as a whole). Its all very sad. But then I remember that God is sovereign and if so few are saved, then ultimately, it is in accordance with His will.

I am saddened that you believe God would create beings so defective that only 1% - 2% would choose to love Him, preferring instead the enternal torments of Hell.

 

[SydLake]

You did the right thing. Didn’t Paul say only the worthy should receive?

Jesus can’t help those that need help. The Eucharist is only for those that don’t really need it.

Think of a bank, do they give money to people with bad credit scores? No way. It is the same with Jesus, He only helps those that have already helped themselves. He can’t change or influence people that need Him until they don’t really need more of Him.

Peace

 

[DreadVandal]

BillP:

I am saddened that you believe God would create beings so defective that only 1% - 2% would choose to love Him, preferring instead the enternal torments of Hell.

You can be sad if you want; but it is the view of many saints and most doctors of the Church. The particular percentage is speculation on my part and so it isn’t that important. But the general consensus of the Fathers, the saints, and the doctors of the Church is that the number of the reprobate will outnumber the number of the elect. Scripture seems to suggest as much. The road to hell is wide and many take it. The road to the Kingdom is narrow and few find their way to it. That is what Jesus taught.

 

[DreadVandal]

SydLake:

You did the right thing. Didn’t Paul say only the worthy should receive?

Jesus can’t help those that need help. The Eucharist is only for those that don’t really need it.

Think of a bank, do they give money to people with bad credit scores? No way. It is the same with Jesus, He only helps those that have already helped themselves. He can’t change or influence people that need Him until they don’t really need more of Him.

Peace

I take it that your tone here is sarcastic? All people need Jesus and all people need the eucharist. But the eucharist only helps those who are properly disposed to receive it. That is the teaching of Scripture. I’m sorry you don’t believe in the Bible. I would suggest you read over what Paul has to say about eating and drinking unworthily in 1 Corinthians.

 

[Dorothy]

StephanieC:

How? Yes. Where? No.

No.

No.

Not a thing.

Madaglan, if I remember correctly, you are a college student? Am I correct to assume that you are still dependent on your parents financially?

I suggest you take some time to study the Catechism of the Catholic Church as it pertains to the 4th Commandment.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm

You will, in all likelihood, protest that there are guidelines, and rules and consequences for proper reception of the holy Eucharist. I believe that this is the paragraph that addresses it in the CCC (emphasis added in color is mine):

It sounds like you beat everybody to the punch & examined everyone else’s conscience for them.

Do you have a spiritual director? I’d really suggest finding one & talking over some of this in the context of maturing into a young adult.

I hope that you are at least mature enough to go and apologize to your mother, who was “still visibly traumatized” (your words) and then, if she is open to further discussion, lovingly explaining your beliefs.

I believe the original poster did the right thing. Remember, in Scripture it says we are to “instruct the ignorant”, and that is what the poster did.

 

[BillP]

DreadVandal:

You can be sad if you want;

Aren’t You?

 

[Agricola]

BillP:

I am saddened that you believe God would create beings so defective that only 1% - 2% would choose to love Him, preferring instead the enternal torments of Hell.

Dear Bill,

God didn’t create anything defective. Men choose to be defective, and in that way become unable to receive Christ worthily in the Eucharist and to enter heaven. DreadVandal is right.

We should be sad that so many choose to follow the wide easy road of sin, but should not use that as an excuse to neglect our duties toward them (trying our best to help them recognize the truth and choose the narrow path to salvation), and to God (protecting the Eucharist from insult is part of that, since the Eucharist is truly the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ and cannot be received by those who do not recognize this and/or are not properly disposed to receive for some other reason… such as having a mortal sin on their soul).

As for OP’s actions. I congradulate you. It takes guts. My girlfriend and I are discerning marriage, and I dread the day that I’ll have to sit down with my relatives and explain to them that they cannot receive the Eucharist at our wedding unless a) they believe in the necessary tenents of the Faith, b) they are in a state of grace. It will be difficult, especially since some of them will take it personally. There is no easy way about it, but it needs to be done.

Sacrelige is serious (a mortal sin in itself), and causes severe damage to one’s soul. It also is a sign of great disrespect for Christ in the Eucharist. If we can prevent it, we should. I do not mean that we demand that everyone make a profession of faith and go to confession before Mass (we cannot know for sure what the state of their soul is). However, we can ask that the priest mention the requriements for worthy reception and ask that anyone who does not meet these requirements, for one reason or another, refrain from receiving… if only out of respect. We can also talk to those people we know who show us that they are not in communion with the Church. Our family and our friends should not be let to believe that they can receive the Eucharist unworthily without consequence.

God bless,

Agricola

 

[matthias]

The phrase I find most helpful in this regard is: “truth in love”. Always be mindful of both truth and love and know that if rightly understood these will never contradict each other.

You did the right thing but it doesn’t sound very tactfully. If you were able to it would have probably been much more tactful to bring up the issues of eucharist before the communion line. This probably caused your family all kinds of pressure and unneccessary embarasment. For that I would appologize, not for the loving moral warning.

For guidance I suggest looking at the Spiritual works of Mercy.
newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm

Clearly it is a charitble act to correct those who are ignorant of moral truth and to correct sinners. In fact as suggested above you should honor the ten commandments and thus your parents. And the most loving thing you can do is lead them lovingly into truth.

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Madaglan
Did I do right in how I told my sister that it would probably be best for her not to receive communion?

Yes.

With my mother, should I have done whatever possible to make sure that she and the priest realized the situation?

It was too late for that, but another time I’d let her know just before entering the church. That should eliminate any discussion and put the responsibility on her. If she really was Catholic at one time, you’d think she’d know, but it is perhaps our fault in that we have permitted lack of reverence for the Eucharist for so long.

Anna

 

[DreadVandal]

Anna Elizabeth:

Yes.

It was too late for that, but another time I’d let her know just before entering the church. That should eliminate any discussion and put the responsibility on her. If she really was Catholic at one time, you’d think she’d know, but it is perhaps our fault in that we have permitted lack of reverence for the Eucharist for so long.

Anna

Anna,

You hit the nail on the head. The real fault is with the clergy who have failed to preach strongly on the reality of mortal sin, especially the mortal sins of contraception, skipping Mass, sexual unchastity, and religious indifference. Most people do not believe in the reality of hell; or if they do believe, they think that only Osama Bin Laden and Adolph Hitler will be there. What needs to be preached is good old fashioned Augustinian/Thomistic Christianity that holds that corrupted mankind cannot be saved but by grace, through perseverence in faith and good works, which includes dying in a state of grace, without unrepented mortal sin. Until that happens, thousands of clergy will be responsible for the damnation of millions of Catholic souls in the west who commit sacriledge every week with a hardened heart and dulled conscience.

 

[awfulthings9]

I had a similar situation with my mom and brother, when they started (for a short while) attending with my wife and me after my brother’s drug-dealing arrest. The first Mass, I told my brother before hand that he couldn’t receive until going to confession, and he respectfully remained in the pew. The next Mass we went to, my mom (who hadn’t been in years) basically pulled him up with her. On the ride home, I explained to her that they shouldn’t receive because they hadn’t been to Mass in several years and needed to go to confession first. Her response: “Oh, that’s not right. Nancy (her sister) and them never do that.” I explained to her that Nancy and them don’t make the rules. I then explained the danger spiritually to someone who receives so frivolously. She respected my wishes after that and soon went to confession, but … began missing again. When we invited her to go a few weeks later, I had to remind her in the pew that she now needed to go to confession again. She made a sour face, but respected it. Recently, my brother’s girlfriend entered the RCIA (I’m her sponsor) and we have made a few family trips. On the first time we were all at Mass together, Mom stood up to go to communion (again, having missed many Sundays). I discreetly put my hand on her shoulder and said, “I’m glad you’re coming up. While you can’t receive, if you cross your arms, Fr. Jamie will know to give you a blessing.” She sort of grimaced again, but received the blessing instead of the host. As so many have posted on this thread, I have to leave her in God’s hands now. However, because she is a role model for my daughter and my candidate for reception into the Church, she has gotten the message that when she comes with us, she plays by the rules. I know it doesn’t always work out this way, though, and I definitely know the pain of recalcitrant family members, so my prayers are with you.

 

[seabird3579]

DreadVandal:

Anna, You hit the nail on the head. The real fault is with the clergy who have failed to preach strongly on the reality of mortal sin, especially the mortal sins of contraception, skipping Mass, sexual unchastity, and religious indifference. Most people do not believe in the reality of hell; or if they do believe, they think that only Osama Bin Laden and Adolph Hitler will be there. What needs to be preached is good old fashioned Augustinian/Thomistic Christianity that holds that corrupted mankind cannot be saved but by grace, through perseverence in faith and good works, which includes dying in a state of grace, without unrepented mortal sin. Until that happens, thousands of clergy will be responsible for the damnation of millions of Catholic souls in the west who commit sacriledge every week with a hardened heart and dulled conscience.

This is exactly what the Church has been teaching for centuries and yet, you rarely hear priests preach this kind of homily. Why is it that they fail to warn their flock? How did they become so complacent? Do they even know the effects of their complacency and indifference? Many, many of the laity are very concerned about the lack of respect for the Eurcharist and why it seems that the clergy can’t “hear” what we’re saying.

I have my own opinions about why the clergy has become so lax. It is not like it was when this country was being first settled, priests and nuns made their way across the open prairie and endured many hardships for the gospel and to establish a new parish or hospital. This served to strenghten their resolve to follow Christ and deepen their relationship with Him. They had to completely depend upon Him for their temporal needs as well as their spiritual needs.

Their lives, like many of ours, have become far to “comfortable” and its become all but impossible to empathize with the temporally needy and the spiritually needy. I hope and pray that God will have mercy on all of us — because as we’ve heard: “Jesus came to comfort the afflicted and and *to afflict * the comfortable.”

 

[Mom_of_5]

Unless I missed it, no one seemed to remember that embarrassing someone in front of others is not acceptable and forbidden. Make a bet that sister was embarrassed. Humiliating someone in front of the parish is a HUGE no no!!! Is it possible that by taking communion it could have led her back to the church??? I am living proof of what taking communion can do…even when there were those who judged my soul as unworthy.

How are you sure someone is commiting a sin by going to communion? Yes, I know you will say that they don’t beleive in the real prescence. Do you know another mans heart? I also know the church teaching. The pope allowed Pres. Clinton to take communion. Was the pope wrong?

Love and peace,

Mom of 5

 

[seabird3579]

Mom of 5:

How are you sure someone is commiting a sin by going to communion? Yes, I know you will say that they don’t beleive in the real prescence. Do you know another mans heart? I also know the church teaching. The pope allowed Pres. Clinton to take communion. Was the pope wrong?

Someone who has missed Mass on Sunday without a valid reason and does not go to confession commits a mortal sin by going to communion. Period.

Could you provide a link to the article that says the Pope allowed President Clinton to receive holy communion. I just won’t believe that one until I see it for myself!