Did I sin regarding abstinence?

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Safe_Eagle

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I don’t know if this is the place to post this but here goes. I was eating dinner about 8pm on thursday night and I had meat. Perhaps i’m being a little scrupulous about his but I was thinking. Did friday already start. We celebrate the anticipated mass on saturday night after 4pm because that’s the start of the next day so did I sin by having meat so late on thursday night?
 
Ask yourself this question. Do you think it would be alright for you to eat meat Friday night? The answer I assume would be no in which case you should have answered your original question since if Firday night is not alright than Thursday night would be alright. From what I have heard the abstinance rule goes from midnight to midnight. There have been several occasions when I wait until midnight Frday night to go to the late night drive through and get a hambuger and likewise have to make sure I don’t eat any meat after midnight such as right now. I am up a lot of the time in the late hours so I take the midnight to midnight rule seriously.
 
Ask yourself this question. Do you think it would be alright for you to eat meat Friday night?
 
Ask yourself this question. Do you think it would be alright for you to eat meat Friday night?
 
The abstinence rule goes only from midnight to midnight.

It is only Sundays and major feasts such as Easter, Christmas and so on that have the anticipated or vigil liturgies from late afternoon of the day before.
 
Safe_Eagle said:
I don’t know if this is the place to post this but here goes. I was eating dinner about 8pm on thursday night and I had meat. Perhaps i’m being a little scrupulous about his but I was thinking. Did friday already start. We celebrate the anticipated mass on saturday night after 4pm because that’s the start of the next day so did I sin by having meat so late on thursday night?
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Regarding abstinence Friday goes from midnight to midnight.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Regarding abstinence Friday goes from midnight to midnight.
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You have got to be kidding me. Well, okay, you’re probably quite serious and this is spelled out in (pig) Latin somewhere in canon law, but…good grief. What about those who live and work on swing and graveyard shift? Are they to split their Pharisaical observance between two of their days? Seriously, this sounds like utter rubbish.

I work swing most of the time, and most of the time my bedtime is somewhere around three a.m. Now I know darn well that having meat to eat “after midnight” Friday night (sounds like something out of Gremlins) is no more in keeping with the law than driving 65 because it’s the posted limit when traffic is doing 85. Likewise, if my Thursday night runs into everyone else’s early Friday - it’s still Thursday for me.
 
Safe_Eagle said:
I don’t know if this is the place to post this but here goes. I was eating dinner about 8pm on thursday night and I had meat. Perhaps i’m being a little scrupulous about his but I was thinking. Did friday already start. We celebrate the anticipated mass on saturday night after 4pm because that’s the start of the next day so did I sin by having meat so late on thursday night?
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No- Friday starts on Friday- not before. If fasting/abstinance started the evening before, Mardi Gras would never have emerged as a custom.
 
aetratus said:
You have got to be kidding me. Well, okay, you’re probably quite serious and this is spelled out in (pig) Latin somewhere in canon law, but…good grief. What about those who live and work on swing and graveyard shift? Are they to split their Pharisaical observance between two of their days? Seriously, this sounds like utter rubbish.

I work swing most of the time, and most of the time my bedtime is somewhere around three a.m. Now I know darn well that having meat to eat “after midnight” Friday night (sounds like something out of Gremlins) is no more in keeping with the law than driving 65 because it’s the posted limit when traffic is doing 85. Likewise, if my Thursday night runs into everyone else’s early Friday - it’s still Thursday for me.
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Friday is no more Thursday than a 33-year-old is still 21. No matter how often you say it it just ain’t so. And it’s not we pedants who say so - it’s the Church which was given power by Christ to bind and loose. You weren’t, neither was I.

I’ve worked odd shifts and kept odd hours when studying. Sure you are hungry when you’re hungry, whatever time of day that may be, but what’s the big deal about avoiding meat? You’re not gonna keel over or anything. Besides which, the point of abstinence is that you’re MEANT to sacrifice a little and suffer a little.

Muslims can eat NOTHING during daylight hours for a whole month no problem and you whinge about a handful of days each year where you can’t eat meat?
 
Not a problem. Thursday isn’t Friday.

And I’ve heard that a few people observe a feast day on Thursdays, because that is when Christ ate the Passover Meal with His disciples in the upper room.

jmm08
 
Someone please quote me the chapter and verse where this is stated in canon law.
 
aetratus said:
Someone please quote me the chapter and verse where this is stated in canon law.
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Why? Is it that big a deal to you, to be able to eat a hamburger instead of a salad or a tuna sandwich?🤷
If it really is that big a deal, here’s a bit of information: In the United States and Canada, we are permitted to substitute some other form of self-denial for the Friday obligation. So deny yourself something else instead, and have your hamburger. 🙂

Addition: I think there’s an exception to that last, for Good Friday. You might want to look it up.
 
Reepicheep said:
Why? Is it that big a deal to you, to be able to eat a hamburger instead of a salad or a tuna sandwich?🤷
If it really is that big a deal, here’s a bit of information: In the United States and Canada, we are permitted to substitute some other form of self-denial for the Friday obligation. So deny yourself something else instead, and have your hamburger. 🙂

Addition: I think there’s an exception to that last, for Good Friday. You might want to look it up.
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This substitution is permitted on all Fridays of the year except for Fridays in Lent and Ash Wednesday. On those days there is no substitution, you simply do not eat meat. IF you intentionally eat meat on Fridays in Lent or Ash Wednesday, you commit a Mortal sin requiring Sacramental Confession before going to Holy Communion.
 
OK, let me back up a second. I was not talking about meat, I was talking about food in general. I have heard - and I think I read it on this board, somewhere - that “we” are allowed to eat one full meal (sans meat from mammals) plus two smaller meals (sans meat from mammals) that do not equal the one full meal on the Fridays of Lent. I say “we” because I have Celiac disease, and from what I understand, my only obligation is to stick to my normal diet which does not normally include meat anyway - even a normal portion of beef/chicken/pork/etc can make me ill (my usual diet consists of fish, nuts, fruits, veggies and vitamins). I don’t eat meat on Fridays.

Having said that, is what I heard of the one full meal + two small meals true?

And a specific correction for Br. Rich SFO: “IF you intentionally eat meat on Fridays in Lent or Ash Wednesday, you commit a Mortal sin requiring Sacramental Confession before going to Holy Communion” - should include the qualification that one knows it’s a mortal sin. Grave matter, knowledge and full consent. And as already stated, I did not do this in the first place.
 
aetratus said:
OK, let me back up a second. I was not talking about meat, I was talking about food in general. I have heard - and I think I read it on this board, somewhere - that “we” are allowed to eat one full meal (sans meat from mammals) plus two smaller meals (sans meat from mammals) that do not equal the one full meal on the Fridays of Lent. I say “we” because I have Celiac disease, and from what I understand, my only obligation is to stick to my normal diet which does not normally include meat anyway - even a normal portion of beef/chicken/pork/etc can make me ill (my usual diet consists of fish, nuts, fruits, veggies and vitamins). I don’t eat meat on Fridays.

Having said that, is what I heard of the one full meal + two small meals true?

And a specific correction for Br. Rich SFO: “IF you intentionally eat meat on Fridays in Lent or Ash Wednesday, you commit a Mortal sin requiring Sacramental Confession before going to Holy Communion” - should include the qualification that one knows it’s a mortal sin. Grave matter, knowledge and full consent. And as already stated, I did not do this in the first place.
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Eating smaller amounts is referred to as fasting, not abstinence. Abstinence is when you omit a particular food or foods, such as meat. They are technical terms and distinct obligtions, not to be confused with each other. Both are binding on pain of grave sin though.

Fasting is required on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday only. Total abstinence from meat is required on those two days and all the other Lenten Fridays. In some countries abstinence is required every Friday of the year, though not in the US, Canada, UK etc.

I imagine eating only the equivalent of two meals instead of three on those two days of the year shouldn’t unduly effect your celiac disease. If it does then of course you’re exempt from the obligation to fast.

If you eat more because you’re hungry that’s not a good enough reason - after all, most people can adjust the time they take their meals or eat at work or what have you to stave off hunger.
 
aetratus said:
OK, let me back up a second. I was not talking about meat, I was talking about food in general. I have heard - and I think I read it on this board, somewhere - that “we” are allowed to eat one full meal (sans meat from mammals) plus two smaller meals (sans meat from mammals) that do not equal the one full meal on the Fridays of Lent. I say “we” because I have Celiac disease, and from what I understand, my only obligation is to stick to my normal diet which does not normally include meat anyway - even a normal portion of beef/chicken/pork/etc can make me ill (my usual diet consists of fish, nuts, fruits, veggies and vitamins). I don’t eat meat on Fridays.

Having said that, is what I heard of the one full meal + two small meals true?

And a specific correction for Br. Rich SFO: “IF you intentionally eat meat on Fridays in Lent or Ash Wednesday, you commit a Mortal sin requiring Sacramental Confession before going to Holy Communion” - should include the qualification that one knows it’s a mortal sin. Grave matter, knowledge and full consent. And as already stated, I did not do this in the first place.
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Ok your talking about FASTING. That is required for those over 18 and under 65 on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday only. Not on all Fridays of Lent. Intentionally eating meat on Fridays in Lent and Ash Wednesday and Good Friday is still objectionably a Seriously sinful act, Mortal sin. The amount of guilt one incurs is determined in the Sacrament of Confession and can be by circumstances be diminished to near nothing depending on the circumstances.

(Intentionally in my use of the term meant that they chose to do or not do something when they knew it was wrong to do so.)
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Ok your talking about FASTING. That is required for those over 18 and under 65 on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday only. Not on all Fridays of Lent. Intentionally eating meat on Fridays in Lent and Ash Wednesday and Good Friday is still objectionably a Seriously sinful act, Mortal sin. The amount of guilt one incurs is determined in the Sacrament of Confession and can be by circumstances be diminished to near nothing depending on the circumstances.

(Intentionally in my use of the term meant that they chose to do or not do something when they knew it was wrong to do so.)
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Hi Brother!

It’s answer a question that I was about to ask. Is there any written official document about it? Apparently my parish priest said otherwise when I asked him about it. He said “abstinence is a form of penance, thus there is no sin involve if you don’t do it.”

The youth ministry people think the same also. The only grave matter is fasting on Ash Wed and Good Fri. I’ve been trying to get something to back up my belief. Hope you can help me.
 
Vince2Paul:

Hope this site helps. 🙂

(I found this on the web, but did not take the time to check the cannon law references myself.)

.
 
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