Did Islam force conversions at the point of the sword?

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Sedonaman, I agree with most of your points about Islam, but I must say that there is little to be gained by going this “well, academia is garbage now, anyway” route. It’s just not necessary, considering the many, many academic sources that show how skewed the Islamic apologist’s view of their own religion and its history is in relation to the historical evidence. Granted, these sources are still a molehill versus what amounts to a mountain of nonsense about Islam from both Western and Eastern scholars (I dare say that in the past ~75 years or so, academia more or less lost its ability to critically analyze issues related to Islam, and is only recently regaining the confidence needed to treat it with the same analytical mindset with which Christianity and Judaism have long been approached by researchers), but the important thing is that they’re there. So I wouldn’t count academia out yet until you’ve read books by academics like Emanouela Grypeou, Mordechai Nisan, Sydney H. Griffiths, and others who have published much on the truth of Islam’s effect on the world, as opposed to the half-truths and lies presented by those with a vested interest in making Islam appear this or that way.
 
it means that i agree

look , i can wellcome your condemnation for islam itself and discuss it with you

but i can’t wellcome your condemnation for islam because there are bad muslims and misguided muslims and terrorist muslims , ( i don’t mean you personally, it’s in general 🙂 )
 
it means that i agree

look , i can wellcome your condemnation for islam itself and discuss it with you

but i can’t wellcome your condemnation for islam because there are bad muslims and misguided muslims and terrorist muslims , ( i don’t mean you personally, it’s in general 🙂 )
This is fair, and we should bear in mind that not only the existence of bad Muslims doesn’t necessarily mean Islam is bad, but also that knowing some nice Muslims doesn’t make Islam good. Therefore, it would require an independent standard not Christianity] to measure Islamic beliefs and teachings.
 
Problem, Elwill, is the inherent sense of superiority Muslims in that part of the world have towards others, especially Christians. The superiority goes to such extremes as to think of itself as the authentic interpreter of Christianity when it is apparent to even unlearned but devout Christians Islam is interpreting Christianity to be something it is not, and again relegating it to inferiority.

Just now I am reading that Lebanon is falling to Muslims…the Lebanese Christians having been there since antiquity…same thing happening to those remaining in the Holy Land; it is happening to the Assyrian Christians in Iraq, and now, coinciding with my own perception that the Arab Spring is the window dressing for the Muslim Brotherhood, I am very afraid for the Egyptian Copts. I acknowledge as well the Muslims who were killed trying to protect them…but the vast majority of Egyptian Muslims, according to a report on CNN, believe a Muslim who leaves Islam must be killed…this is not superiority but a sign of internal weakness.

This superiority is destructive to other people and to good Muslims themselves who are helpless to do anything about the militant side of Islam.

Because of the internet, more and more truth is coming out about Islam…about all of us. Before God, we are all equal, sinners in need of the one Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, the Atonement for our sins.
 
Perhaps ‘Liberators’ was the wrong word to use. Forgiveness, please. Perhaps a better word would have been… Innovators? From the article, from Dr. Lapidus - “Islam “represented the response of a tribal, pastoral population to the need for a larger framework for political and economic integration, a more stable state, and a more imaginative and encompassing moral vision to cope with the problems of a tumultuous society.”” And as I said, I spoke mainly about Middle Eastern and North African people - Obviously I wouldn’t say the invasions of Europe were considered good things by the native populations. Like I said, it’s a poor citation and if I can dig up something better I’ll share it.
I’d like to pull this thread a little more. Here are some of the events:
632 AD – Mohammed dies
633 – Mesopotamia falls to Muslim invasion, followed by the entire Persian Empire
635 – Damascus falls to Muslim invaders
638 – Jerusalem capitulates
643 – Alexandria falls, ending 1,000 years of Hellenic civilization
649 – Cyprus falls
653 – Rhodes falls
673 – Constantinople attacked, repels Muslims
698 – All of North Africa lost to Muslims
The areas around the Holy Land and in North Africa had been Christian for over 600 years before Islamic conquests. My thinking is that if Islam had “a larger framework for political and economic integration, a more stable state, and a more imaginative and encompassing moral vision to cope with the problems of a tumultuous society,” there would have been no need for invasion and conquest. In fact; just the opposite would have happened: Christians and Jews would have voted with their feet by moving to lands that were already Islamic, i.e., the Arabian Peninsula, in much the same way Mexicans try to come to the U.S.
 
And at a local level, Sedonaman, we need only to look at examples like the Jewish warrior and female religious leader known as “al-Kahina” (the [female] Soothsayer), who lead the local Tamazight (Berber) resistance to the Arabs and Islam in the 7th century. Kahina (Dhiya) fought the Muslims for years, and is still remembered as a hero by many Tamazight people (“Berber” is pejorative, a likely Arabic borrowing from the Greek for “Barbarians”).

I also reject the idea that Islam somehow saved the Middle Eastern or North African people from tribalism by providing a greater ANYTHING. The Arabs were and to some extent still are very tribal (maybe not so much among the educated and urbanized elite, but that generally is not the majority of society in any given place), and this isn’t such a big change from the earlier societal structures. The Assyrians have their tribes and the Arabs have theirs, and it’s been that way for a very long time. Islam did squat to change this, as it preserves the tribalism of Arabian society, despite verses in the Qur’an saying that it is wrong. Maybe Islam could make a better case for abolishing tribalism if it did not at the same time romanticize and elevate Muhammad’s origins from among the Quraysh people (who somehow were deferred to by God in the transmission, preservation, and canonization of the Qur’an, despite Muhammad’s request that it be read in different dialects!), and spend so much time talking about this or that people of this or that tribe, and (most importantly) bending to tribal custom.

Islam, as usual, talks out of both sides of its mouth. On one side, everyone is equal and no one is better than anyone else and tribalism is bad and blahblahblah, and on the other side…well…let’s just say it took the very tribal mindset of the Arabs and used it to create a religion in which the old divisions between clans are simply replicated on a bigger scale with reference to anyone who dares not be Muslim. “Dar el-Harb”, anyone? :rolleyes:

Before the tribe was Banu Khalid or Adi or what have you…now the “tribe” is Islam itself. Doesn’t seem like a great social improvement, really, as they still turn on each other on those occasions where there isn’t an evil Western or Jewish infidel around to terrorize, subjugate, and kill. And in response to this charge, they can only point to Northern Ireland, as though blights on Christianity ameliorate blights on Islam. Pathetic losers, all of them. You know what your book asks you to not do, people. But the fact that Islam cannot control tribalism (think Somalia, a “state” united only by Islam; they’ll probably never be rid of tribalism because many aren’t open to wider ideas) is not really a “failure” (Christianity didn’t really, either; we took care of it by advancing as whole societies, with a plurality of beliefs). I would say it is evidence, however, that glowing reviews of Islamic history and society are hogwash. They always have been, and always will be. At least Christians and others generally have the good sense to say “yes, we fall short as societies of living theocratically, so we aren’t going to do that, as that was never our point to begin with” (indeed, you’ll find some writings among the Oriental churches that completely discount the idea that a “Christian society” is even possible or desirable; why else do you think they instead fled to the desert in record numbers following St. Anthony’s lead?). With Islam, it’s pretty clear to everyone that isn’t a neo-Muslim internet apologist that this was (at least part of) Islam’s raison d’etre from the very beginning, hence, Islam will never be rid of these kinds of divisions. It thrives on them and perpetuates them.
 
And at a local level, Sedonaman, we need only to look at examples like the Jewish warrior and female religious leader known as “al-Kahina” (the [female] Soothsayer), who lead the local Tamazight (Berber) resistance to the Arabs and Islam in the 7th century. Kahina (Dhiya) fought the Muslims for years, and is still remembered as a hero by many Tamazight people (“Berber” is pejorative, a likely Arabic borrowing from the Greek for “Barbarians”).

I also reject the idea that Islam somehow saved the Middle Eastern or North African people from tribalism by providing a greater ANYTHING. The Arabs were and to some extent still are very tribal (maybe not so much among the educated and urbanized elite, but that generally is not the majority of society in any given place), and this isn’t such a big change from the earlier societal structures. The Assyrians have their tribes and the Arabs have theirs, and it’s been that way for a very long time. Islam did squat to change this, as it preserves the tribalism of Arabian society, despite verses in the Qur’an saying that it is wrong. Maybe Islam could make a better case for abolishing tribalism if it did not at the same time romanticize and elevate Muhammad’s origins from among the Quraysh people (who somehow were deferred to by God in the transmission, preservation, and canonization of the Qur’an, despite Muhammad’s request that it be read in different dialects!), and spend so much time talking about this or that people of this or that tribe, and (most importantly) bending to tribal custom.

Islam, as usual, talks out of both sides of its mouth. On one side, everyone is equal and no one is better than anyone else and tribalism is bad and blahblahblah, and on the other side…well…let’s just say it took the very tribal mindset of the Arabs and used it to create a religion in which the old divisions between clans are simply replicated on a bigger scale with reference to anyone who dares not be Muslim. “Dar el-Harb”, anyone? :rolleyes:

Before the tribe was Banu Khalid or Adi or what have you…now the “tribe” is Islam itself. Doesn’t seem like a great social improvement, really, as they still turn on each other on those occasions where there isn’t an evil Western or Jewish infidel around to terrorize, subjugate, and kill. And in response to this charge, they can only point to Northern Ireland, as though blights on Christianity ameliorate blights on Islam. Pathetic losers, all of them. You know what your book asks you to not do, people. But the fact that Islam cannot control tribalism (think Somalia, a “state” united only by Islam; they’ll probably never be rid of tribalism because many aren’t open to wider ideas) is not really a “failure” (Christianity didn’t really, either; we took care of it by advancing as whole societies, with a plurality of beliefs). I would say it is evidence, however, that glowing reviews of Islamic history and society are hogwash. They always have been, and always will be. At least Christians and others generally have the good sense to say “yes, we fall short as societies of living theocratically, so we aren’t going to do that, as that was never our point to begin with” (indeed, you’ll find some writings among the Oriental churches that completely discount the idea that a “Christian society” is even possible or desirable; why else do you think they instead fled to the desert in record numbers following St. Anthony’s lead?). With Islam, it’s pretty clear to everyone that isn’t a neo-Muslim internet apologist that this was (at least part of) Islam’s raison d’etre from the very beginning, hence, Islam will never be rid of these kinds of divisions. It thrives on them and perpetuates them.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I forgot to ask if there is any record of mass migrations to Islamic lands from “Dar el-Harb” after the conquest of Arabia.
 
Hey everyone. I have often heard from pro-Islamic sources that Islam did not force conversions at the point of the sword. They often quote the verse from the Koran that says there is no compulsion in religion. However, I am not sure whether to believe them or not. Were people forced to convert to Islam at the point of the sword or not? Please provide sources.
Well, try reading this quotation from the Qu’ran:

Qur’an 47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in
Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of
them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making
(them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits
Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue
carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

Or this: (“believers” = Muslims)

Qur’an 47.033 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger! Those who disbelieve and
hinder men from the Cause of Allah, He will not pardon. Do not falter; become fainthearted,
or weak-kneed, crying for peace. You have the upper hand.”

And this, from the Hadith:

Muslim:B19N4292 “Aun inquired whether it was necessary to extend an invitation to submit to Islam before murdering infidels in the fight. Nafi told me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger made a raid upon Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. This Tradition was related by one who was among the raiding troops.”

So the answer is yes, based on basic Islamic sources, which contain hundreds and hundreds of references like these.
 
I myself am very leery of some things Muslims say…there are the moderates…but then in some countries they think it appropriate a Muslim who wants to leave Islam must be killed.

All of these beliefs with such actions are not representative of God. And Islam deliberately misinterprets Christianity so that it can dominate.

Trying to communicate truth to some mindsets is impossible.
 
Well, try reading this quotation from the Qu’ran:

Qur’an 47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in
Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of
them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making
(them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits
Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue
carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

Or this: (“believers” = Muslims)

Qur’an 47.033 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger! Those who disbelieve and
hinder men from the Cause of Allah, He will not pardon. Do not falter; become fainthearted,
or weak-kneed, crying for peace. You have the upper hand.”

And this, from the Hadith:

Muslim:B19N4292 “Aun inquired whether it was necessary to extend an invitation to submit to Islam before murdering infidels in the fight. Nafi told me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger made a raid upon Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. This Tradition was related by one who was among the raiding troops.”

So the answer is yes, based on basic Islamic sources, which contain hundreds and hundreds of references like these.
As for whether Islam did in fact put this into practice, from the hadith:

Ishaq:406 “Among us was Allah’s Apostle whose command we obey. When he gives an order we do not examine it. The spirit descends on him from his Lord. We tell him about our wishes and our desires which is to obey him in all that he wants. Cast off fear of death and desire it. Be the one who barters his life. Take your swords and trust Allah. With a compact force holding lances and spears we plunged into a sea of men…. and all were made to get their fill of evil. We are men who see no blame in him who kills.”

And these:

Ishaq:414 “If you kill us, the true religion is ours. And to be killed for the truth is to find favor with Allah. If you think that we are fools, know that the opinion of those who oppose Islam is misleading. We are men of war who get the utmost from it. We inflict painful punishment on those who oppose us…. If you insult Allah’s Apostle, Allah will slay you. You are a cursed, rude fellow! You utter filth, and then throw it at the clean-robed, godly, and faithful One.”

Tabari VIII:153 “I ask the Merciful One for a pardon and for a sword blow that makes a wide
wound that shoots out foaming blood. For a deadly thrust by a thirsty sword, and a lance
that pierces right through the guts and liver. People shall say, when they pass my grave,
‘Allah guided you the right way, O warrior.’”

And this:
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”

And:

Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the
Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we
were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile
[cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”

[This is a report of actions of Mohammed’s soldiers in his lifetime. It is what Islam teaches: submit, obey, and pay the zakat. If not, use the sword. In the light of this kind of teaching, why is there surprise at 9/11, Pan Am over Lockersby, USS Cole, the televised beheading of an English journalist, the recent attacks in Egypt on Christians (25 dead, 200wounded, the church desroyed), and so on?]
 
It is unbelievable that this topic is still being bantered about on the internet. Of course there are good peaceful Muslims as I’m sure there were some (few) well intentioned Communists & Fascist that did not condone mass murder. But those ideas have perpetrated the most horrific slaughters & human abuses ever perpetrated on the human race and are reprehensible, as is Islam. The Muslim persecution of Christians has continued for 13 centuries. Lets not forget that starting with Muhammad the slaughter began and if Charles Martel had not stopped the Muslim advance at Tours in 732 AD we’d all be praying in a mosque. Islam teaches that Muslims must wage war on non-Muslims. There are only three options: A. surrender & convert to Islam B: Die C: submit to Dhimmitude.
How often do you hear of Christians loping off the head of Christian that wants to convert to say a Buddhist religion?
 
Also, the manner Islam overcame Iran and India, its war against the Sikhs and Buddhists. I read it was actually India who had it the worse. I think Serbia/Bosnia are up there…the Muslims there taunt the Serbs to upset them by calling them ‘Bosnians’, which I assume means under Islam domination. I also saw a video made in 2005 of an Orthodox church having its cross removed by Muslims, and then tossing it down to a whistling crowd below. Sickening. It was an area of Yugoslavia our country supported – again – not even knowing the history of it.

However, after studying the history of Bosnia, I then became a believer of Mary appearing in Medjugorje though never going there.

Some day the world will rise up against militant Islam. Its time is coming. Studying the history of the Church, we were instructed to pray and do penance for the conversion of Russia. But not go to war against her.

When it has come to Islam, prayers and penance don’t seem enough. However, John Paul II said the only remedy against terrorism is the rosary and penance…fasting…The government says it is nabbing terrorists all the time in our country and elsewhere before they can kill.

And those towns that are following the messages of Medjugorje are knowing God’s protection since the '91 wars.
 
So from what I understand a lot of the Koran speaks about how god directed Mohammed into fighting the pagan Arab tribes…is this correct? If this is correct, my question is…What was so important or special or lack their of about these pagan Arabs that God dedicated his time to directing Mohammed to fight them? Maybe if, the answer given to this is meaningful, we will be able to see why forced conversions were maybe permissible or if forced conversions were just ungodly or maybe it can be proven that there was not forced conversions after all…

thank you
 
And at a local level, Sedonaman, we need only to look at examples like the Jewish warrior and female religious leader known as “al-Kahina” (the [female] Soothsayer), who lead the local Tamazight (Berber) resistance to the Arabs and Islam in the 7th century. Kahina (Dhiya) fought the Muslims for years, and is still remembered as a hero by many Tamazight people (“Berber” is pejorative, a likely Arabic borrowing from the Greek for “Barbarians”).

I also reject the idea that Islam somehow saved the Middle Eastern or North African people from tribalism by providing a greater ANYTHING. The Arabs were and to some extent still are very tribal (maybe not so much among the educated and urbanized elite, but that generally is not the majority of society in any given place), and this isn’t such a big change from the earlier societal structures. The Assyrians have their tribes and the Arabs have theirs, and it’s been that way for a very long time. Islam did squat to change this, as it preserves the tribalism of Arabian society, despite verses in the Qur’an saying that it is wrong. Maybe Islam could make a better case for abolishing tribalism if it did not at the same time romanticize and elevate Muhammad’s origins from among the Quraysh people (who somehow were deferred to by God in the transmission, preservation, and canonization of the Qur’an, despite Muhammad’s request that it be read in different dialects!), and spend so much time talking about this or that people of this or that tribe, and (most importantly) bending to tribal custom.

Islam, as usual, talks out of both sides of its mouth. On one side, everyone is equal and no one is better than anyone else and tribalism is bad and blahblahblah, and on the other side…well…let’s just say it took the very tribal mindset of the Arabs and used it to create a religion in which the old divisions between clans are simply replicated on a bigger scale with reference to anyone who dares not be Muslim. “Dar el-Harb”, anyone? :rolleyes:

Before the tribe was Banu Khalid or Adi or what have you…now the “tribe” is Islam itself. Doesn’t seem like a great social improvement, really, as they still turn on each other on those occasions where there isn’t an evil Western or Jewish infidel around to terrorize, subjugate, and kill. And in response to this charge, they can only point to Northern Ireland, as though blights on Christianity ameliorate blights on Islam. Pathetic losers, all of them. You know what your book asks you to not do, people. But the fact that Islam cannot control tribalism (think Somalia, a “state” united only by Islam; they’ll probably never be rid of tribalism because many aren’t open to wider ideas) is not really a “failure” (Christianity didn’t really, either; we took care of it by advancing as whole societies, with a plurality of beliefs). I would say it is evidence, however, that glowing reviews of Islamic history and society are hogwash. They always have been, and always will be. At least Christians and others generally have the good sense to say “yes, we fall short as societies of living theocratically, so we aren’t going to do that, as that was never our point to begin with” (indeed, you’ll find some writings among the Oriental churches that completely discount the idea that a “Christian society” is even possible or desirable; why else do you think they instead fled to the desert in record numbers following St. Anthony’s lead?). With Islam, it’s pretty clear to everyone that isn’t a neo-Muslim internet apologist that this was (at least part of) Islam’s raison d’etre from the very beginning, hence, Islam will never be rid of these kinds of divisions. It thrives on them and perpetuates them.
dzheremi…I agree totally! The problem that people have with your reasoning is that of reason itself!! In other words you make too much sense and Islam probably doesn’t! I say probably because I have not studied fully Islam but I do know a lot!
 
dzheremi…I agree totally! The problem that people have with your reasoning is that of reason itself!! In other words you make too much sense and Islam probably doesn’t! I say probably because I have not studied fully Islam but I do know a lot!
Why even by secular logic the Quran is less reliable than the Bible
Another problem of the Quran is that its teachings and stories in many cases contradict the Bible. Theologically, for Islam, this poses a major problem, because the Quran itself says the Bible is composed of earlier revelations from the same God. Hence, if the Bible’s different version of some event or person’s life is correct but contradicts the Quran’s, then the Quran’s own appeal to the Bible’s authority is proven false. Hence, Muslims can’t just throw away the Bible completely, but have to claim this or that part of it was corrupted, while the Quran has the right version. But now logically, granted the standard principles of the bibliographical test described above, since the Bible was finished about 500 years before the Quran, it is the more reliable document. In many cases, eyewitnesses wrote the Bible, or second-hand reporters using eyewitness accounts. Muslims may routinely claim the Bible has been corrupted, but the textual evidence shows otherwise: The variations in the Old and New Testaments are actually smaller than the textual problems the Quran ultimately faces, which Uthman’s actions to standardize it merely paper over.
Furthermore, what textual variations the Bible does have do not bend towards Islamic theology in any kind of systematic manner. For example, the Quran denies the crucifixion of Christ. There are no New Testament variations that deny the crucifixion. Furthermore, by secular logic alone, who is more reliable about this? An eyewitness such as John, or Mark as informed by Peter? Or someone writing 500+ years later who never even saw Jesus alive? Since Muhammad did maintain his revelations built upon the Bible, seeing it as coming from the same God, the two shouldn’t conflict–but of course, they do.
 
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sedonaman:
Thanks for the information sedonaman!! That makes sense! I always wondered where the orginal bible and Torah was or is, that the muslims talk about? I wonder who had it in history? I sure would like to see it…
 
Jharek,

I also uphold your acknowledgement of what the Catholic Croats had done as well…I didn’t mean to exclude them…

But I also think about what my high school Far East teacher, an antheist, said about abusers and victims…that it is common for the victim to begin to take on the behaviors of the abuser…I think of Spain…was reading a testimony by a Jew that was documented…how the Spanish Catholic neighbors would treat them… it sounded like they were acting like the Muslim conquerers…treating the Jews as dhimmi.

And at the same time, I am finally moving beyond my own concepts and perceptions of Spain in that way…Conquistadors…and looking at the other side of Spain who was the one who went out in search of the New World, sharing knowledge of the discoveries, and bringing the faith, making Mexico the center of learning for the New World…I don’t think Islam has done the same.
 
i see that you all not read the reference as one thing, but you tear it phrase by phrase…
that’s why you understood the Muslims ways of live.

if you want to know how the conversion or anything else, try read Al-Quran. not phrase by phrase, entirely… and you will see the light…
 
…if you want to know how the conversion or anything else, try read Al-Quran. not phrase by phrase, entirely… and you will see the light…
Do you have to know Arabic to become a Muslim? Not according to this islamic-world.net/invitation.php?ArtID=338 website. All that is required is to submit to Allah and memorize a few prayers in the Koran. But, to submit to Allah, it is necessary to know his will, and where do you find it but in the Koran?

“Learning Arabic will be an advantage as there is a big difference between reading the translations of the Koran and the original text in Arabic,” the site continues. A Muslim told me that an Islamic scholar would explain it to me. OK. In what language will he explain it? He would have to use Arabic because, according to the same Muslim, “Only Arabic can convey the true meanings and translations of the meaning have lost total understanding of the verses.” Since I don’t know Arabic, I wouldn’t understand what the scholar was saying or what to believe; but according to them, I would be a “believer” nevertheless. How can you believe dogma you know is wrong by definition? Since you can’t get there unless you’ve been there before, it’s a catch 22.

Most Muslims don’t speak Arabic, and I would proffer that, since the only true Koran is in Arabic [ancient at that], they don’t really know that what they believe is something other than what the Koran says. In fact, they would not ever know what it says because, according to the site, there is a big difference between what the Arabic Koran says and what a translation of it says. This would include non-Arabic explanations of the Koran by Islamic scholars.

So reading a Koran in English is a waste of time as far as learning about Islam is concerned.
 

Muhammed had unified the Arabian penninsula at his death in 632 AD.
In 29 years, Islam conquered and incorporated everything in orange into its religious network. Conversion by the sword works and people in this region were the first victims of this assimilation. Islam is a violent religion right from it’s birth. All of its first and earliest rulers took power and lost power through murder.
In the next 89 years, Islam spread to all through Spain and into the Indian subcontinent (all the yellow areas on the map). The Hindu Kush mountains are named after Islam’s entry into the Indian subcontinent through conversion by the sword. Hindu Kush literally means slaughter of Hindus. However conversion by the sword killed many Hindus but did not convert them so Muslims resorted to taxing and ruling over the majority Hindus. Tamerlane, the Mongol Muslim invader of India, boasts in his own writings, of slaughtering 100,000 Hindus when he conquered Delhi.
 
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