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Krisdun
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Did Jesus believe that everything written in the Old Testament was without error?
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Anesti33
Guest
What do you mean, “without error”? And why do you use the past tense?
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mdgspencer
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I don’t think the New Testament shows or says that Jesus specifically spoke about this.
I presume that Jesus’ views correspond to those of Catholicism. The Church’s views of the truth of the Old Testament were provided in Vatican II’s “Dei Verbum,” which spoke of the truth of the Bible. This Vatican II document speaks about the Old Testament in chapters 3 and 4. You can read “Dei Verbus” at Dei verbum
Naturally, I rely on what an ecumenical council said about the Bible and believe that this is the view of Jesus too, since, as Saint Paul said the Church is the “pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).
By the way, “Dei Verbum” is an intelligent response to the question about whether everything in the Old Testament is true.
I presume that Jesus’ views correspond to those of Catholicism. The Church’s views of the truth of the Old Testament were provided in Vatican II’s “Dei Verbum,” which spoke of the truth of the Bible. This Vatican II document speaks about the Old Testament in chapters 3 and 4. You can read “Dei Verbus” at Dei verbum
Naturally, I rely on what an ecumenical council said about the Bible and believe that this is the view of Jesus too, since, as Saint Paul said the Church is the “pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).
By the way, “Dei Verbum” is an intelligent response to the question about whether everything in the Old Testament is true.
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Krisdun
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I mean that while on earth did Jesus state that everything written in the Old Testament is true? For example from the creation of the world, to Adam and Eve etc.
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Anesti33
Guest
We don’t know everything he said. It couldn’t be contained in all the libraries of the world, remember?
And what do you mean by “true”?
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White_Tree
Guest
It’s difficult to know what Jesus personally believed, but here are some things He taught on that topic, according to the Gospels:
In other words, the teachings of the Old Testament are valid and true, and should be obeyed, even down to the last letter, and the smallest part of a letter. He reiterates this when He tells people to obey the commands of the pharisees, who were the teachers of the Mosaic law:
But in many respects, the holiness that Jesus demands is even greater than what is required in the Old Testament:
So the answer seems to be, “Yes, it’s true, but you need to go even further than what it prescribes.”
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Cirdan_XII
Guest
what does it mean to believe anything?
seeing Jesus is God, isn’t he all knowing, and therefore he doesn’t need to believe.
seeing Jesus is God, isn’t he all knowing, and therefore he doesn’t need to believe.
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Wesrock
Guest
The Bible can be true and error free and still make use of symbolic stories and details.
Anyway, Jesus is God. There are no defects in his knowledge.
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Gorgias
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Are you asking whether Jesus was a Fundamentalist (i.e., someone who adheres to a hyper-literalistic interpretative stance with respect to Scripture)?
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Dan_Defender
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Jesus quoted Moses several times. Moses wrote Genesis so if there had been an ‘error’ he would have pointed it out. At the same time, Genesis was written mostly for spiritual instruction not to give a scientific account.
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Krisdun
Guest
Symbolic stories can often be interpreted in a variety of ways by different people. Should we take stories of Adam and Eve or that of Noah as absolute truth are these just symbolic?
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Gorgias
Guest
It’s a traditional understanding. In any case, even when we assert this, we have to ask what we mean by it. Did he physically put ink to paper? Did he participate in editorial work? Did he direct others to do it? Did he create the environment in which others who followed did so? Did he keep the oral traditions alive?Dan_Defender:
There is no evidence of this.
(It gets increasingly difficult to hold to that assertion of Mosaic authorship, though, as we become aware that parts of the Pentateuch bear the footprints of later (exilic) experiences of the Jewish people.)
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Gorgias
Guest
Believe it or not, I don’t always disagree with you…
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GodIsPerfection
Guest
John 1: 1-14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
10 He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Word is full of grace and truth.
The Catholic Nicene Creed:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
These verses and the Nicene Creed declare that the Word existed from the beginning, and the Word became flesh (incarnate in Jesus Christ). If you could possibly contain all of the holographic data of Holy Scripture and its perspectives in your mind at once, you would actually visualize Jesus Christ.
The Father is omniscient. Jesus and the Father are one, but Jesus did not claim omniscience (“Only the Father knows when the last day shall be.”).
Luke 2: 41-47 The missing boy, Jesus, found teaching in the Temple (He knows Old Testament perfectly at age 12)
46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Obviously, Jesus knew the Old Testament, because he WAS the Word in the flesh.
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Krisdun
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No doubt Jesus knew the Old Testament even at that young age although it does not state exactly what he was teaching or questioning?
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GodIsPerfection
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In teaching the Old Testament, Jesus was teaching HIMSELF.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”
God = Jesus = perfection = the Word.
The logic is irrefutable…but you can choose to shut your eyes to it.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”
God = Jesus = perfection = the Word.
The logic is irrefutable…but you can choose to shut your eyes to it.
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BT3241
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There were things that Jesus did not like - especially when it came to the treatment of people - he specifically picked an eye for an eye to say it does not stand and to forgive in the sermon on the mount.
How many people like to cherry pick that one.
How many people like to cherry pick that one.
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BT3241
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I will add Jesus was constantly at odds with the religious authority trying to correct them and why they wanted to crucify him.
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Bruce_Killian
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There is a primary source indicating Moses wrote the Torah/Pentateuch.MasterHaster:
Believe it or not, I don’t always disagree with you…
Matt 8:4 And Jesus said to him, “See that you say nothing to anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a proof to them.”
Matt 17:3-4 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
Matthew 19:7-8 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Matt 22:24 saying, "Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother.’
Matt 23:2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat,
Mark 7:10 ESV - 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’
Mark 12:26 ESV - 26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
Luke 2:22 And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
Luke 16:29, 31 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
Luke 24:27, 44 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
John 1:17, 45 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
John 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
John 6:32 Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
John 7:19, 22 Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.
So at least one quote from each book of Moses–by Jesus who is truth.
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Gorgias
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Hang on a second, though: just because Moses is referenced or quoted, doesn’t mean that he must be the author…
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