Did Jesus commit a sin?

[Margaret_Ann]

Because Qur’an is pure revelation.

The Koran is a compilation of extracts from the Old and New Testaments, the apocryphal literature that flourished during the immediate post-Apostolic period and the early Christological heresies (e.g. Arianism/Subordinationism). C.f. The Great Heresies.

The canon of Holy Scripture was defined centuries before the Koran was written. This is historical fact.

 

[MountCarmel]

I having studied psychology at university, I am well aware of the motives and tactics of ‘Denial’ - this despite historical, archeological and demographical evidence that goes/runs contrary to the mainstream Islamic mantra about Mumammad, Mecca and the Ka’aba.

Back to the topic; no Jesus did not commit sin, though ,yes. His actions were sometimes misunderstood, mainly because the nature of His being/essence was/is too often misunderstood. Muhammad was a sinner, this according to Islamic texts was even admitted by Muhammad himself, during his humbler moments.

 

[Psalms62]

So for your example, the Jews believe that it is sinning to do activities on Sabbath, and Christians don’t. Who is right in the end? Only God knows, literally. We humans can only try and do the right thing, and if our respective religions provide a guide, it is just normal that we try and follow that guide.

Hmm…excuse me! It is or was a sin to do business/work on Sundays! And, in special cases if someone had to work, they receive a special dispensation from the priest. Also, if you lived in the southern states , like Texas, all businesses were closed: that is wide spread among all Christisns:

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

§2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.

(http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2017/02...anent-dispensation-from-attending-sunday-mass

 

[kgmlg]

kgmlg:

So for your example, the Jews believe that it is sinning to do activities on Sabbath, and Christians don’t. Who is right in the end? Only God knows, literally. We humans can only try and do the right thing, and if our respective religions provide a guide, it is just normal that we try and follow that guide.

Hmm…excuse me! It is or was a sin to do business/work on Sundays! And, in special cases if someone had to work, they receive a special dispensation from the priest. Also, if you lived in the southern states , like Texas, all businesses were closed: that is wide spread among all Christisns:

You are excused. I actually do not understand your point….working on Sundays does not mean not going to mass. A little article that you may find interesting.

News - Catholic Online

I am not saying that we Catholics should work on Sundays (I think it should be a family day too), but a lot of our brothers do have to work. Some just have to eat I guess……

 

[Psalms62]

I am not saying that we Catholics should work on Sundays (I think it should be a family day too), but a lot of our brothers do have to work. Some just have to eat I guess……

Especially if you were a farmer! I have to say I miss those days. It was all about family and spending time in prayer or just setting the time aside for special activities at the church.

The closest time that I have ever felt to the church along with members was back in high school. We took the weekend off and all of us got together for a sabbatical. All grades freshman, juniors and seniors spent the weekend at school. The nuns actually rented out a movie and we all grabbed our sleeping bags and had the best time. We had a curriculum during the day and at night we watch the movie and then said prayers.

The church is such a huge advocate on Unity and it was such a huge bonding with everyone and also, what brought us closer together was our faith and our belief in God. I can’t say enough about my faith!

 

[Psalms62]

Back to the topic; no Jesus did not commit sin, though ,yes. His actions were sometimes misunderstood, mainly because the nature of His being/essence was/is too often misunderstood. Muhammad was a sinner, this according to Islamic texts was even admitted by Muhammad himself, during his humbler moments.

Whatever happened to that line on a house divided? And also, the interpretation?

Remember the angel Gabriel verse in Luke 1
" Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.”

19 The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their appointed time.”

It comes within the same merit, of an unbelief. A prophet is a messenger from God and He carries the spirit of God within him and in Gabriel’s instance he was carrying a message directly to Zechariah.

In the same chapter, Luke, the angel Gabriel came to Mary and said these words, " greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." It is impossible for both the spirit of God and sin to dwell in the same body.

Listen to the words of Saint Paul, " Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? 8 Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”[b] Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12 If others have this right of support from you,shouldn’t we have it all the more?

 

[Psalms62]

Some Muslims accuse Jesus of committing a sin. ‘Jesus called the Canaanite woman a dog.’
He said in reply, “It is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs.” (Mtt 15:26)
How do we answer this?

Whether it is a machine, a sports team, a government party, or one’s own mind, things have to work together if anything is to be accomplished. The Bible says that a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways (James 1:8), and Paul appeals to the churches that there be no divisions among the believers (1 Corinthians 1:10). In fact, churches should be unified in their purpose and judgment, avoiding people who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to sound doctrine (Romans 16:17). Christians are not to quarrel but to be unified around a common understanding of truth. “How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!” (Psalm 133:1).

God commands unity among believers because, once conflict enters the midst of any assembly or entity, productivity and usefulness inevitably grind to a halt and the whole organization is weakened and becomes vulnerable to attack. As Jesus said, “Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.”

A fruit of the Spirit is peace (Galatians 5:22). Christians are, as followers of the Prince of Peace, peaceful people (Matthew 5:9). We are called to live in harmony with one another (Romans 12:16) and, as far as it depends on us, to be at peace with everyone (Hebrews 12:14). Jesus Christ is building His church (Matthew 16:18). His “house” will stand; “his kingdom will not be destroyed, / his dominion will never end” (Daniel 6:26).

 

[Psalms62]

A house divide was quoted for that very reason - you can not serve two masters.

“No one can serve two masters.[(http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew6:48#48006024-m) He will either hate one and love the other!

Jesus can not be both sinful and a savior (or prophet - accordingly) at the same time.

 

[mhmtas63]

The Koran is a compilation of extracts from the Old and New Testaments, the apocryphal literature that flourished during the immediate post-Apostolic period and the early Christological heresies (e.g. Arianism/Subordinationism). C.f. The Great Heresies.

The canon of Holy Scripture was defined centuries before the Koran was written. This is historical fact.

Muslims know well the previous scriptures and revelation came to Muhammad. The doctrines…The Great Heresies…

 

[mhmtas63]

Back to the topic; no Jesus did not commit sin, though ,yes. His actions were sometimes misunderstood, mainly because the nature of His being/essence was/is too often misunderstood. Muhammad was a sinner, this according to Islamic texts was even admitted by Muhammad himself, during his humbler moments.

Neither Muhammad nor Jesus were sinner but were mankind. And human is likely to make mistake. The faults are not sins.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Pope John Paul II issued an entire encyclical on Sunday - Dies Domini. Look it up on the Vatican website.

 

[Psalms62]

You are excused. I actually do not understand your point….working on Sundays does not mean not going to mass. A little article that you may find interesting.

Setting time, a day, aside and spending it with those in our family or with members of our community. Giving back a day to God - I used my school for example. Those things bring unity and closeness and it’s energizing to spend a day together.

Understood, that it might be difficult for some who do have to work but try to set time aside. Make Sunday a designated day for our community as Christians. If we utilize it, I know it will become instilled. Everything runs smoother. Even in the Jewish religion when it comes to a special dispensation,which that’s not what it’s called, their members have to go to their rabbis and let them know - of the circumstances.

But at least in some respect when we set time aside or some time aside and with family or being around friends, this helps! Again,Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath - meaning rest!

 

[Chaldean]

And wars in history were not made because of religions but there were/are other political and economical aims/accounts.

Allow me to disagree with this statement
AL Tawbah 9:5 “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

Al Tawbah 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”

So in order for Christians and Jews to avoid slaughter they will have to either turn Muslim, die, or give Jizyah while “Humbled”. As in second class citizens.

 

[kgmlg]

Yes, we actually studied it in bible class. Anything in particular you wanted to specifically point out?

 

[mhmtas63]

Allow me to disagree with this statement
AL Tawbah 9:5 “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

Al Tawbah 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”

So in order for Christians and Jews to avoid slaughter they will have to either turn Muslim, die, or give Jizyah while “Humbled”. As in second class citizens.

Do you see any practice by what exactly you mean?

There are causes of verses of being revealed which is called “Sabab-el nuzul”. These verses are in Sura At-Tawbah which do not start with “Bismillahirrahmanirrahim” because there are some hard statements for Munafikun and Pagans. These verses were revealed while Pagans attacked Muslims. God allowed Muslims to retaliate. That is not for all times. If they do not assault so they were not be killed. God is Forgiving and Merciful. There are also paralel verses in Torah.

Verses do not say slaught Christians or Jews. God say fight with " those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture ". So do you adopt the religion of truth that preached by Jesus and Muhammad in which there were no man made doctrines?

And in some other verses God say there is no fear for Christians and Jews:

1. Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. Al-Baqarah(2)

Every citizen pay taxation in state. So the taxation of Christians and Jews are different in Islamic state.

 

[Chaldean]

There are causes of verses of being revealed which is called “Sabab-el nuzul”. These verses are in Sura At-Tawbah which do not start with “Bismillahirrahmanirrahim” because there are some hard statements for Munafikun and Pagans. These verses were revealed while Pagans attacked Muslims. God allowed Muslims to retaliate. That is not for all times. If they do not assault so they were not be killed. God is Forgiving and Merciful. There are also paralel verses in Torah.

In the last 9 years of the life of Muhammad as he gained strength and power, he was engaged in over 83 battles. It is not true to say that Pagans intimated the attacks. In most of the battles it was the Muslims that Initiated. At the time, Pagans of Quraish were given 2 options, either war, or submission to Islam. Many were left with no choice but to fight back. Do you know that in one single attack, Muhammad killed 900 Jewish men of Banu Qurayza and took their women and kids captives?
What about after the death of Muhammad? Islam spreaded by the sword from the far east to the far west taking over Spain and reaching the heart of Europe. Were all these invasions defensive? In The Torah the case was different. They were fighting over the promised land. Jews back then did not have further plans to occupy the world. Yet in Islam, the mission was to spread Islam throughout the entire world.

Verses do not say slaught Christians or Jews. God say fight with " those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture ". So do you adopt the religion of truth that preached by Jesus and Muhammad in which there were no man made doctrines

This verse clearly tells Muslims to fight the people who were given the scripture. Yet it makes a distinction. Pagans are only given 2 options- Convert to Islam or die. People of the scripture were given an additional option of paying Jizya. Paying taxes should be a condition of constitutional equality. Yet, The ones who adapted the religion of truth “Christians and Jews” were the only ones who were forced to pay Jizya. Forcing them to pay taxes meant distinction of citizenship. Basically like being a prisoner on Parole. They were not able to hold any position of power. They were treated as second class citizens. Not to forget the majority of the Christians and Jews who were poor and not able to afford the Jizya imposed, therefore the majority were forced to convert to Islam. Many even choose death.

 

[Chaldean]

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. Al-Baqarah(2)

I believe this was when Muhammad was in Mecca. Early Islam. The verses were more peaceful because Muhammad did not have the manpower to spread his message across. This verse you mentioned was abrogated by the later verses whom I have mentioned above.

 

[PrisonerOfChrist]

Sin comes from the heart, not from words. It’s how you use your words that make them sinful.

African Americans have a common greeting “what’s up dog?” This greeting is not a sin because they don’t mean it in a degrading way and neither did Jesus with the woman.

 

[Psalms62]

Pope John Paul II issued an entire encyclical on Sunday - Dies Domini. Look it up on the Vatican website.

Beautiful! Couldn’t have said any better!

“Sunday is a day which is at the very heart of the Christian life. From the beginning of my Pontificate, I have not ceased to repeat: “Do not be afraid! Open, open wide the doors to Christ!”.(9) In the same way, today I would strongly urge everyone to rediscover Sunday: Do not be afraid to give your time to Christ! Yes, let us open our time to Christ, that he may cast light upon it and give it direction. He is the One who knows the secret of time and the secret of eternity, and he gives us “his day” as an ever new gift of his love. The rediscovery of this day is a grace which we must implore, not only so that we may live the demands of faith to the full, but also so that we may respond concretely to the deepest human yearnings. Time given to Christ is never time lost, but is rather time gained, so that our relationships and indeed our whole life may become more profoundly human.”

 

[Psalms62]

I can somewhat follow your logic I think, and within this frame some of what you say makes sense to me. But, if Jesus was G’d like you claim, then why did he supposedly pray to G’d on the cross to help him and save him, and couldn’t come to his own rescue?

God sent an angel to comfort and console Jesus during that time. The judgments that God sends are for a reason and they have to be followed through. God’s ruach hakodesh (also transliterated ruaḥ ha-qodesh) left Saul and David came to comfort him. “After the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, a spirit of distress from the LORD began to torment him.” On the cross, there were two criminals - one who comforted our Lord and the other tormented him.

Who was Dismas and Gestas?

In the version of the Gospel of Luke, however, one taunts Jesus about not saving himself, and the other (known as the penitent thief) asks for mercy. In apocryphal writings, the impenitent thief is given the name Gestas, which first appears in the Gospel of Nicodemus , while his companion is called Dismas.