Did Jesus die for our sins?

[Pitcharan]

Well, just because Christ died for our sins does not mean we need to stop any attempts at forgiveness and attonement. We are constantly sinning which is why the Catholic Church preaches the forgiveness of sins through confession. The animal sacrifices of the time would be similar to penance and would have the same effects. So, while Christ did die because we sinned, we still need to seek forgiveness and penance for what we have done.

Salvation has two dimensions: (i) Escaping Hell and (ii) Gaining entry into Heaven.

The former is achieved for us by our Lord who suffered and died for the remission of our sins. To benefit from it we need to believe Him and forgive our offenders.

The latter is achieved through enduring suffering in obedience to our Lord’s command. When we do so we are cleansed interiorly and freed from slavery to sin.

We must know that forgiveness does not free us from our sinful nature which can be shed only through suffering

 

[unshinbop]

In simple terms, yes.

When John declared that Jesus was " The Lamb of God" every Jew in ear shot knew just what he meant. Lambs were sacrificed for the atonement of sins.

Every second of Jesus’ life , death, resurrection, was perfectly orchestrated according to Jewish law and the Feasts.

The fact that lambs were sacrificed for sin does not close the loop in your reasoning. If the gospel history is reliable, Jesus went around forgiving people of their sin verbally many times before he died. If this truly took place, his being a lamb of God would be considered far less direct parallel to the OT sacrifices by the Jews within earshot than you intimate.

The basic problem is that Paul makes the cross central to his gospel, but Jesus NEVER told any unbeliever that he was going to die for them. Once again, the doctrine of Jesus atoning for sins by his death appears to be an embellishment upon the death of a political criminal by Paul.

 

[unshinbop]

Paul did not invent any new teaching but continued what our Lord taught. Our Lord Himself repeatedly said that He was going to die for our sins.

I know of a two or three passages in the gospels where Jesus described his death as achieving for the remission of sins. You call that “repeatedly”?

Where does the NT record Jesus preaching to an unbeliever that he was going to die for their sins?

 

[unshinbop]

Salvation has two dimensions: (i) Escaping Hell and (ii) Gaining entry into Heaven.

The former is achieved for us by our Lord who suffered and died for the remission of our sins. To benefit from it we need to believe Him and forgive our offenders.

That doesn’t seem accurate. Jesus explained exactly what criteria he would be employing to seperate the sheep from the goats to decide their eternal destinies, and while making clear that it was whether they had done good works that was the basis for accepting or rejecting them, there is not a whisper of his having paid for their sins with his death. Matthew 25.

The latter is achieved through enduring suffering in obedience to our Lord’s command. When we do so we are cleansed interiorly and freed from slavery to sin.

 

[Pitcharan]

That doesn’t seem accurate. Jesus explained exactly what criteria he would be employing to seperate the sheep from the goats to decide their eternal destinies, and while making clear that it was whether they had done good works that was the basis for accepting or rejecting them, there is not a whisper of his having paid for their sins with his death. Matthew 25.

You can’t separate ‘belief in Jesus’ from ‘good works’. If a person believes in Jesus he must be doing ‘good works’. Our Lord has made it very clear in John 14:12 “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.”

I think the phenomena of change you refer to is purely human. There are plenty of atheists who can recall being stupid and rebellious in their younger years, but now they are more mature and prioritize long term goals more than quick flashes of fun.

Yet they were never Christians. Why shouldn’t this human reality be incorporated back into Christian theology as a realistic explanation for why some followers of Christ make changes for the better? If you accept Jesus as your Savior and then give up smoking, was that the Holy Spirit? If so, why wasn’t it the Holy Spirit when the atheist stops smoking? Why do we infer spiritual activity when there is a perfeclty good naturalistic explanation available?

I never said that the Holy Spirit works only on Christians. If a person is attracted to truth it is the same as being attracted to Jesus who Himself said “I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6a)

 

[Pitcharan]

I know of a two or three passages in the gospels where Jesus described his death as achieving for the remission of sins. You call that “repeatedly”?

Where does the NT record Jesus preaching to an unbeliever that he was going to die for their sins?

“This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Matt 26:28)

He told them, "This is what is written. The Christ must suffer and rise again from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:46-47)

God our Saviour wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth (1Tim 2:3b-4)

 

[Doxiemom]

The fact that lambs were sacrificed for sin does not close the loop in your reasoning. If the gospel history is reliable, Jesus went around forgiving people of their sin verbally many times before he died. If this truly took place, his being a lamb of God would be considered far less direct parallel to the OT sacrifices by the Jews within earshot than you intimate.

The basic problem is that Paul makes the cross central to his gospel, but Jesus NEVER told any unbeliever that he was going to die for them. Once again, the doctrine of Jesus atoning for sins by his death appears to be an embellishment upon the death of a political criminal by Paul.

curious about you…do you accept that there is sin? Or is right and wrong a grey area?

 

[fred_conty]

@ Unshinbop
You said,
"Where does the NT record Jesus preaching to an unbeliever that he was going to die for their sins?

Jesus said,“No greater love does a man have than that he lay down his life for his friends.”
And you are one of them.