Did Jesus die for the people that were already in hell before he was crucified?
- Thread starter Guest1
- Start date
- Status
X
Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Yes.
Remember Jesus died for everyone’s sins, past and present. Also, remember that Jesus is God made flesh. God, Himself is outside of our perception of time. He is not bound by days and hours like we are.
Remember Jesus died for everyone’s sins, past and present. Also, remember that Jesus is God made flesh. God, Himself is outside of our perception of time. He is not bound by days and hours like we are.
X
Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Jesus took upon Himself the sins of all–past, present, and future. Remember, sin is displeasing to God, and God demanded a perfect sacrifice. It would not be a fulfillment of God’s promise to the world if Jesus only took on some of the sins.
As I stated on another thread, hell is not a place. It is a choice to be forever separated from God. The pain of their sin still exists, even if they have made their final decision.
As I stated on another thread, hell is not a place. It is a choice to be forever separated from God. The pain of their sin still exists, even if they have made their final decision.
X
Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
I think I learned much about this through Scott Hahn’s work, although his entire writing points back to exact Bible passages and Catechism quotes. His big blue textbook–Dideche series (or something like that) along with his lecture covers much Church history.
I also learned much in my college from Vincentians, as well as learning much in Lifeteen and with the Franciscans that hail out of the Bronx.
I also learned much in my college from Vincentians, as well as learning much in Lifeteen and with the Franciscans that hail out of the Bronx.
D
De_Maria
Guest
I think you’re asking whether Jesus died to save the people who were already in hell in Old Testament times? Am I right?
In my opinion, the answer is, “no”.
Jesus died to bring about God’s will for people who lived under the Old Testament and to instituted a New Testament for those who were still alive.
Here’s where I get my opinion on this question:
Hebrews 9:15 For this reason he is mediator of a new covenant: since a death has taken place for deliverance from transgressions under the first covenant, those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. 16 Now where there is a will, the death of the testator must be established. 17 For a will takes effect only at death; it has no force while the testator is alive.
What this verse says, is that Jesus Christ died in order to bring about God’s will for the sins committed in the first covenant. What is God’s will for those sins?
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth today to witness against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live,
The Blessing and the Curse. The blessing for those who obey God’s will. The curse for those who don’t.
Exodus 20:6 but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
So, that doesn’t mean that God didn’t want them to be saved. It means that by the time that Jesus died upon the Cross, they had already sealed their fate by disobeying God. Think about Cain, Pharaoh and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.
If any of them had done God’s will, Jesus’ sacrifice would have saved them. But since they didn’t, they condemned themselves.
The same is true for those who do not do God’s will in the New Testament era. Jesus’ sacrifice will not save them.
I hope that helps.
B
Benadam
Guest
None of the people who died before Jesus came experienced hell until after being offered salvation from Christ in Hades.
B
Benadam
Guest
yup. And I was taught that when Jesus died He preached the Gospel to all the souls in Hades. Jesus’ soul went where all human souls went after death. There, everyone from the dawn of history was with Him. They went with Him and were saved or they stayed to never get out. It was after Jesus went to Hades that it became hell. Before that it was a place where all parted souls waited for judgement
Last edited:
G
Gorgias
Guest
Well, hold on. It sounds like you’re making the same error that @De_Maria is making, but in the opposite direction.
Jesus’ death and resurrection didn’t offer a “new chance” for salvation for those who had already died. As the Bible tells us, “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment.”
So, those who lived prior to Jesus’ incarnation lived, died, and were judged. However, those who would attain to heaven were unable to do so “until” Jesus’ salvific sacrifice. So, to these, Peter tells us, in the abode of the dead (‘Hades’, or ‘Sheol’, or (archaically) ‘Hell’), Jesus comes and proclaims the good news that He’s opened the gates of heaven!
Now, does this mean that Jesus gives a “second chance” to those who rejected God and died? No.
Does this mean that His sacrifice wasn’t for those who rejected Him? No – He still died for their sins; they just didn’t accept His sacrifice while they were alive.
B
Benadam
Guest
That’s just it, they never got the chance to reject God. They died before He came. They get a chance to accept or reject salvation too.
Last edited:
G
Gorgias
Guest
No, that’s not true. Just like everyone who lived without knowing Jesus (for example, even people today, who are born into situations in which they never hear the Good News of Jesus), they either search for the Good or reject it. And, in doing so, they accept or reject God.Gorgias:
That’s just it, they never got the chance to reject God.
No. That’s in conflict with the teaching of the Church. There is no “chance to accept or reject God” following death.
K
KatyCatholic
Guest
Go Gorgias! On the right track, in line with Catholicism. 
Old Testament:
Old Testament:
- all peoples live to either chose or reject god
- all peoples go to shoel (spelling, my hebrew is non-existant) (shoel is the underworld)
- Christ dies, goes to visit, opens the door and the souls stuck there then get to go to heaven or hell based on how they had lived their lives
- all peoples live to either chose or reject god
- all peoples will go to immediate judgement
- all peoples will be judged for eternity
B
Benadam
Guest
He disagrees with number 3 old testament history. Gorgias does I mean
Last edited:
B
Benadam
Guest
They had not been judged until Jesus got there so I’m not understanding the second chance thing. Also, why wouldn’t Jesus reveal the fullness of His truth to them before judgement is passed. Also, there is more than one perspective on how judgement happens. The Church hasn’t defined just how it happens.
Granted the nuns that taught me used the word ‘preached’ St Thomas’ word is more precise.
Last edited:
Haydock Bible
Ver. 19. In which (to wit, soul or spirit) also he came, and preached to those spirits who were in prison. The true and common interpretation of this place seems to be, that the soul of Christ, after the separation from the body and before the resurrection, descended to a place in the interior parts of the earth, called hell in that which we call the apostles’ creed, (sometimes called Abraham’s bosom, sometimes Limbus Patrum[Limbo of the Fathers], a place where were detained all the souls of the patriarchs, prophets, and just men, as it were in prison) and preached to these spirits in this prison; i.e. brought them this happy news, that he who was their Redeemer was now come to be their deliverer, and that at his glorious ascension they should enter with him into heaven, where none could enter before our Redeemer, who opened as it were heaven’s gates. Among these were many who had been formerly at first incredulous in the time of Noe[Noah], who would not take warning from his preparing and building the ark, but it may be reasonably supposed that many of them repented of their sins when they saw the danger approaching, and before they perished by the waters of the deluge, so that they died at least not guilty of eternal damnation; because, though they were sinners, yet they worshipped the true God, for we do not find any proofs of idolatry before the deluge. These then, and all the souls of the just, Christ descended to free from their captivity, from their prison, and to lead them at his ascension triumphant with him into heaven. See here a proof of a third place, or middle state of souls: for these spirits in prison, to whom Christ went to preach after his death, were not in heaven, nor yet in the hell of the damned; because heaven is no prison, and Christ did not go to preach to the damned. (Challoner) — St. Augustine, in his 99th epistle, confesses that this text is replete with difficulties. This he declares is clear, beyond all doubt, that Jesus Christ descended in soul after his death into the regions below, and concludes with these words: Quis ergo nisi infidelis negaverit fuisse apud inferos Christum? In this prison souls would not be detained unless they were indebted to divine justice, nor would salvation be preached to them unless they were in a state that was capable of receiving salvation.
Ver. 19. In which (to wit, soul or spirit) also he came, and preached to those spirits who were in prison. The true and common interpretation of this place seems to be, that the soul of Christ, after the separation from the body and before the resurrection, descended to a place in the interior parts of the earth, called hell in that which we call the apostles’ creed, (sometimes called Abraham’s bosom, sometimes Limbus Patrum[Limbo of the Fathers], a place where were detained all the souls of the patriarchs, prophets, and just men, as it were in prison) and preached to these spirits in this prison; i.e. brought them this happy news, that he who was their Redeemer was now come to be their deliverer, and that at his glorious ascension they should enter with him into heaven, where none could enter before our Redeemer, who opened as it were heaven’s gates. Among these were many who had been formerly at first incredulous in the time of Noe[Noah], who would not take warning from his preparing and building the ark, but it may be reasonably supposed that many of them repented of their sins when they saw the danger approaching, and before they perished by the waters of the deluge, so that they died at least not guilty of eternal damnation; because, though they were sinners, yet they worshipped the true God, for we do not find any proofs of idolatry before the deluge. These then, and all the souls of the just, Christ descended to free from their captivity, from their prison, and to lead them at his ascension triumphant with him into heaven. See here a proof of a third place, or middle state of souls: for these spirits in prison, to whom Christ went to preach after his death, were not in heaven, nor yet in the hell of the damned; because heaven is no prison, and Christ did not go to preach to the damned. (Challoner) — St. Augustine, in his 99th epistle, confesses that this text is replete with difficulties. This he declares is clear, beyond all doubt, that Jesus Christ descended in soul after his death into the regions below, and concludes with these words: Quis ergo nisi infidelis negaverit fuisse apud inferos Christum? In this prison souls would not be detained unless they were indebted to divine justice, nor would salvation be preached to them unless they were in a state that was capable of receiving salvation.
B
Benadam
Guest
you should read Nelkas reference it’s better than mine. Although it may be that those souls that Christ encountered when He died experienced their judgement immediately, they had not entered eternity therefore were not yet judged. With the Christ Event eternity entered time and history.
- Status