Did Jesus die for the people that were already in hell before he was crucified?

[Benadam]

but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’”

Jesus describes the souls in torment as having committed the unforgivable sin. Not even if they see someone rise from the dead will they repent.

Heaven wasn’t open because Jesus hadn’t died yet. Jesus say’s if the teaching of Moses can’t inspire repentance then someone rising from the dead won’t either.
Disembodied souls define their own dwellings according to their various states of sanctity or corruption.

I know there were souls in torment waiting for their damnation and souls that weren’t in torment.

Jesus describes souls that hardened their hearts towards God in life. Died unrepentant

The reason for the division between disembodied souls is the sanctity of some the corruption of others…
Before Abraham did the righteous and the unrighteous dwell together? The disembodied soul defines it’s ‘place’ in hades. Abraham’s soul was very comforted by being the father of faith. He could offer that comfort to those who shared a similar life of righteousness and a likeness of faith.

A soul that was wicked in life can’t ‘unite’ to them because their sin had corrupted their soul and it was to unlike a righteous soul

Gehenna, Hades Sheol, all the names that have been used.There is only one abode for the dead before Christ. I can tell you that no one who had died before Jesus had been judged. Judgement is what divided the disembodied souls after Christ. Now it’s divided into heaven hell and purgatory.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’”

Jesus describes the souls in torment as having committed the unforgivable sin. Not even if they see someone rise from the dead will they repent.

Jesus is describing a person who does NOT have a love for God OR their fellow humans. They refuse to be taught, they refuse to change. Free will has consequences.

Benadam:

Heaven wasn’t open because Jesus hadn’t died yet. Jesus say’s if the teaching of Moses can’t inspire repentance then someone rising from the dead won’t either.
Disembodied souls define their own dwellings according to their various states of sanctity or corruption.

I know there were souls in torment waiting for their damnation and souls that weren’t in torment.

Jesus describes souls that hardened their hearts towards God in life. Died unrepentant

The reason for the division between disembodied souls is the sanctity of some the corruption of others…
Before Abraham did the righteous and the unrighteous dwell together? The disembodied soul defines it’s ‘place’ in hades. Abraham’s soul was very comforted by being the father of faith. He could offer that comfort to those who shared a similar life of righteousness and a likeness of faith.

The permanent separation of the damned from the saved, at death, is an act of mercy by God.

Benadam:

A soul that was wicked in life can’t ‘unite’ to them because their sin had corrupted their soul and it was to unlike a righteous soul

Gehenna, Hades Sheol, all the names that have been used.There is only one abode for the dead before Christ. I can tell you that no one who had died before Jesus had been judged. Judgement is what divided the disembodied souls after Christ. Now it’s divided into heaven hell and purgatory.

The 2nd person of the blessed Trinity, who took the name of Jesus at His incarnation, knew from the foundation of the world, who was and was NOT in the book of life. Before He spoke and all that is, came into existence, He knew who would be saved and who would NOT.

No surprises.

While on earth as a human being, Jesus describes Himself

Jn 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jn 12:50
whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

Jn 14:10
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

When the flood came, out of ALL the people known, how many were saved? 7

When Jesus was asked, will only a few be saved? He didn’t correct nor deny it. He validated it. Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias quoted me:

I think you’re asking whether Jesus died to save the people who were already in hell in Old Testament times? Am I right?

In my opinion, the answer is, “no”.

As the Apostles’ Creed states, Jesus descended to Hell. (Hades / Sheol)

1. I asked you to quote where you claimed that I said that Jesus did not die for the sins of those who died before them. I don’t see any such quote.

1. 
   That’s truly odd… because you quoted it, above.

1. I’ve already mentioned in the previous exchange, that you are wrong in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus died to save those people in “hell” who were going to be condemned. I’ve provided evidence from St. Augustine and from the Catechism to support my argument. You’ve provided only your opinion to the contrary.

Clearly, you missed my discussion of ‘sufficient’ and ‘efficacious’ grace. That’s ok… it’s a fairly subtle distinction. In any case, there it is: Jesus’ sacrifice is for all, but is not accepted by all.

Again, you need to provide the Catholic Teaching. Otherwise, this is only your opinion.

This is getting tiresome. Nonetheless:
CCC 571:

The Paschal mystery of Christ’s cross and Resurrection stands at the center of the Good News that the apostles, and the Church following them, are to proclaim to the world. God’s saving plan was accomplished “once for all” by the redemptive death of his Son Jesus Christ.

The redemptive death of Christ is “for all”. Can you see that? I knew you could…

(However – and it’s critical to recognize this – although it’s a death for all, it’s not efficacious for all: some refuse to accept God, and for these, even Jesus’ death (without their acceptance in faith) does not achieve what Jesus intends.

Then you are contradicting yourself.

Nope. You’re just failing (or refusing) to see the nuance. It’s all good.

Agreed. But this discussion is about those who died in the OT.

It’s really about all who died prior to Jesus’ life, not just those present in the OT.

Actually, the first and second covenants were with all men.

You mean “both humans” and “the eight who survived the flood”. Technically ‘all’, but with a really significant asterisk next to it…

According to Scripture, even the Abrahamic Covenant was with all men, although, the gentiles were not aware of it:

Notice that St. Paul says that the Covenant was made with Abraham before he was circumcised “Thus he was to be the father of all the uncircumcised who believe,…as well as the father of the circumcised…”.

Yeah… those “uncircumsized who believe”. (Psst… that’s us, not Abraham’s contemporaries… )

 

[De_Maria]

That’s truly odd… because you quoted it, above.

You quoted me saying:

I think you’re asking whether Jesus died to save the people who were already in hell in Old Testament times? Am I right?

In my opinion, the answer is, “no”.

I don’t see the words, “Jesus did not die for the sins of” the people who were already in hell in Old Testament times.

And I don’t see any equivalence in that which I said and that which you claim I said.

Clearly, you missed my discussion of ‘sufficient’ and ‘efficacious’ grace. That’s ok… it’s a fairly subtle distinction.

Apparently, the distinction is so subtle that you don’t get it.

In any case, there it is: Jesus’ sacrifice is for all, but is not accepted by all.

The people who were already condemned to hell in the OT, when were they given the choice to accept Jesus’ sacrifice?

This is getting tiresome

To you, because you’ve been proven wrong and you don’t want to admit your error.

. Nonetheless:

The Paschal mystery of Christ’s cross and Resurrection stands at the center of the Good News that the apostles, and the Church following them, are to proclaim to the world. God’s saving plan was accomplished “once for all” by the redemptive death of his Son Jesus Christ.

The redemptive death of Christ is “for all”. Can you see that? I knew you could…

That supports my explanation. But it doesn’t support yours. Or if it does, point out where it says that the people who were already condemned to hell in the Old Testament, were offered salvation.

(However – and it’s critical to recognize this – although it’s a death for all, it’s not efficacious for all: some refuse to accept God, and for these, even Jesus’ death (without their acceptance in faith) does not achieve what Jesus intends.

When was salvation offered to those who were already in hell when Jesus died on the Cross?

Nope. You’re just failing (or refusing) to see the nuance. It’s all good.

You’re failing to understand the question which was asked. When was salvation offered to those who were already in hell when Jesus died on the Cross?

It’s really about all who died prior to Jesus’ life, not just those present in the OT.

Same thing.

Yeah… those “uncircumsized who believe”. (Psst… that’s us, not Abraham’s contemporaries… )

Psst. If Abraham’s contemporaries had come to believe, they would have been included in the Covenant.

Bottom line. You’ve been disproved and your making noise to change the subject. You are under the impression that Jesus died upon the Cross to save those who were already condemned to hell in the OT. That’s false.

Jesus died on the Cross to redeem the sins of all men. For those who were already condemned it meant that their sins would be counted against them. For those who were already approved, it meant they would be admitted into heaven.

 

[Vico]

There is some controversy on that question. The Church, to my knowledge, has not clarified whether the wicked of the OT went directly to the hell of the damned or were being tormented in a temporary after life prison conjoined to Abraham’s bosom. See the example of Lazarus and the Rich Man which was provided by someone else.

Gehenna is the place of suffering with a body, so it must be after the Parousia, and Sheol is a place where souls without a body exist. This fits with the idea that there are different abodes for bodies, but the states of the rational soul can be described as places although the rational soul is immaterial.

 

[mythbuster1]

If Christ did not die for them, they would not be “without excuse” on Judgment Day. From the time of the Fall, the Redeemer was prophesied, and God is faithful to His promises. Thus no one can say that God abandoned him to sin without hope of salvation.

 

[Gorgias]

Bottom line. You’ve been disproved and your making noise to change the subject.

Have a lovely day, @De_Maria.