Did Jesus died on a cross?

[swariffin]

I don’t think he was born on 37AD, I will check again. You are a careful person. I missed Paar’s writing.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Swar,

Yep, 37 AD is the accepted date for the birth of Josephus.

only the jews who reject Christ believe that he did not die on a cross, they have to deny it in order to justify themselves.

The jews who saw it and believed it, became christians for the most part.

Having seen Christ die on the cross would not necessarily mean they became believers. Most Jews I know don’t reject that Christ died on a cross, they deny he is the Messiah.

 

[Reuben_J]

**Some one tried to fool the Muslims into believing that it was some one else on the cross and that it was not Jesus. That is not true at all. It is no where in the Quran that it was not Jesus on the cross. It is also not in any Hadith that it was some one else on the cross.

So we can forget about that false idea now and we get on with the real things which are in the Quran. The Quran says categorically that the Jews could not kill Jesus on the cross and they could not kill him in any other way too… That is the truth. We should adopt that and discuss that please.
**

Sorry, but your source has no crediblity. Mohammad was not there when Jesus was hanged on the cross. He did not see him nor did he knew him.

His source, the so-called angel Gabriel was questionable. There is no proof that he was really the angel Gabriel.

You could be easily be decieved if you were not there to witness the happening of the incidence. We cannot hold what the Quran says as truth because it came out of the blue with no warning or foreshadowing.

The Quran cannot be truthful because there is nothing in the teachings of Jesus that Christians follow today that are bad. Thus there is no reason for the Quran to abrogate what are being taught and followed by Christians today. Therefore the Quran is redundant, superflous and does not add to any good to what already have been revealed by Jesus. Actually your Quran is useless to us.

We will be judged by the good we do and the belief we have. The Quran does not provide anything better than what we already have. Therefore, there is no reason to believe in the Quran’s version of Jesus death. It is all speculation intended to decieve.

Reuben

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi

Kind name the secular history book…

I don’t have a secular book which confirms or denies the crucifixion.

But I do have a Bible and a Lunar Eclipse. Isn’t that amazing? ancient Prophets of God and modern scientists at NASA confirm each other.

The Qur’an is proving to be a pest because history doesn’t agree it, neither do scientists, and neither do the ancient prophets of God. (Modern day terrorists are not helping your peaceful cause for the Qur’an either. Sorry, I know that was a cheap shot.)

The Secular Historians even don’t believe that Jesus existed historically…

But you believe Jesus existed so stop wasting my time with nonsense.

 

[lurdes]

Sorry, but your source has no crediblity. Mohammad was not there when Jesus was hanged on the cross. He did not see him nor did he knew him.

His source, the so-called angel Gabriel was questionable. There is no proof that he was really the angel Gabriel.

You could be easily be decieved if you were not there to witness the happening of the incidence. We cannot hold what the Quran says as truth because it came out of the blue with no warning or foreshadowing.

The Quran cannot be truthful because there is nothing in the teachings of Jesus that Christians follow today that are bad. Thus there is no reason for the Quran to abrogate what are being taught and followed by Christians today. Therefore the Quran is redundant, superflous and does not add to any good to what already have been revealed by Jesus. Actually your Quran is useless to us.

We will be judged by the good we do and the belief we have. The Quran does not provide anything better than what we already have. Therefore, there is no reason to believe in the Quran’s version of Jesus death. It is all speculation intended to decieve.

Reuben

well said!!!

 

[planten]

well said!!!

**Not very well said. Please see my post and the post of Charlie. I was simply disowning the substitution theory that Muslims believe it was some one else on the cross. I just refuted that in my post.

And what do I get in response is in front of you which you are praising as well said. It is not. because it did not address even a word of my post. I have to ask again “What use is the substitution theory to the christians. If it was not Jesus on the cross then the christians should not believe it.” Why they are trying to push that false idea on to us Muslims? Do the christians believe that it was some one else on the cross? Surely not.
That is the topic now. Thanks.**

 

[paarsurrey]

But I do have a Bible and a Lunar Eclipse. Isn’t that amazing? ancient Prophets of God and modern scientists at NASA confirm each other.

Hi

Kindly explain relevance of the Lunar Eclipse or NASA with Historicity of Jesus.

Thanks

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi

Kindly explain relevance of the Lunar Eclipse or NASA with Historicity of Jesus.

Thanks

The ancient prophet Joel tells to watch out for that day when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon will turn to blood (see Joel 2:31). Joel wrote this about 1,000 years prior to the crucifixion.

St Peter tells us that that day has already come (see Acts 2:16); St Peter is referring to the day of the Crucifixion.

Nowadays, we know what the ancient people didn’t know; The moon doesn’t turn to blood - but rather a red moon is just a graphic description of a lunar eclipse. (I’ve seen a couple of those in the past few years.)

And nowadays, scientists know when lunar eclipses will occur. And they know that one occured on Friday 3rd April 33 AD.

Don’t you find that fascinating?

 

[LutheranDK]

Why do the jws believe that Jesus didn’t die on a cross, that it was just a stake with his arms over his head?

What’s really puzzling is why they think that THAT detail, as we must agree that it is, whether or not it was a cross or a stake, is so important that they base a whole theology around it…

 

[paarsurrey]

The ancient prophet Joel tells to watch out for that day **when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon will turn to blood **(see Joel 2:31).
Don’t you find that fascinating?

Hi

I don’t see name of Jesus having been mentioned in the verse or Jesus having been existed historically.

Also please explain ; Do you mean the Sun and Moon Eclipses occurred the same day Jesus was put on the Cross though delivered from it in near-dead position and laid in a tomb for treatment purposes by his friends?

Since you are in contact with NASA on this important issue; could you tell us what type of moon eclipse has been named by them in which you believe “moon will turn to blood” was fullfilled?

Thanks

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi

I don’t see name of Jesus having been mentioned in the verse or Jesus having been existed historically.

Joel probably didn’t know he was writing about Jesus. Joel probably had a vision from God and he putting it down in words.

Also please explain ; Do you mean the Sun and Moon Eclipses occurred the same day Jesus was put on the Cross though delivered from it in near-dead position and laid in a tomb for treatment purposes by his friends?

There was no solar eclipse that day. We don’t know why it was dark that day.

Since you are in contact with NASA on this important issue; could you tell us what type of moon eclipse has been named by them in which you believe “moon will turn to blood” was fullfilled?

Thanks

I’m really can’t be bothered for that.

 

[paarsurrey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Hi

Hi

I think you are yourself in doubt that Jesus existed, for this even NASA cannot help you. Only because Quran mentions Jesus’ name so it will be reasonable for you, in my opinion, to believe in Quran so that you could believe in Jesus truthfully.

For Luna Eclipses kindly access a nice article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_eclipses
and select which type of Lunar Eclipse occurred, as you say, that very day when Jeus was saved miraculously from death on Cross.

Thanks

 

[planten]

**Charlie has given the date of crucifixion as 03 April 0033 A.D. A lunar eclipse did occur on that date, 60% (maximum) at 1715 GMT. But the problem is that it was not Friday. It was Sunday.

The problem is that the date cannot be changed. Eclipse occurred on 03 April. What can we do about the day?? Is there any explanation to correct the day? 03 April 0033 is Sunday.**

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

**Charlie has given the date of crucifixion as 03 April 0033 A.D. A lunar eclipse did occur on that date, 60% (maximum) at 1715 GMT. But the problem is that it was not Friday. It was Sunday.

The problem is that the date cannot be changed. Eclipse occurred on 03 April. What can we do about the day?? Is there any explanation to correct the day? 03 April 0033 is Sunday.**

Hi planten,

Reckoning with today’s modern Gregorian Calendar System, 3rd April 33 AD was a Sunday, and that would imply the crucifixion occured on Gregorian 1st April 33 AD.

But when dealing with pre-16th century dates, the general consensus with ancient historians is to reckon dates with the then popular Julian Calendar System. (Pope Gregory changed the calendar system from Julian to Gregorian in 1582 because it was then realised that the Julian Calendar system didn’t handle leap years too well.)

So, Julian 3rd April 33 AD is the same day (Friday) as Gregorian 1st April 33 AD.

More info:
calendarhome.com/converter/

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi

I think you are yourself in doubt that Jesus existed, for this even NASA cannot help you. Only because Quran mentions Jesus’ name so it will be reasonable for you, in my opinion, to believe in Quran so that you could believe in Jesus truthfully.

For Luna Eclipses kindly access a nice article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_eclipses
and select which type of Lunar Eclipse occurred, as you say, that very day when Jeus was saved miraculously from death on Cross.

Thanks

I have no doubt that Jesus existed, and neither do you. I can’t understand why you’re wasting my time on that.

The Qur’an is not reasonable to me because God has revealed his standard via prophecy, and the Qur’an has no such prophecy.

According to your wikipedia reference, I would guess it was a “selenelion or selenehelion”. I hope this discussion doesn’t become too scientific.

 

[planten]

I have no doubt that Jesus existed, and neither do you. I can’t understand why you’re wasting my time on that.

The Qur’an is not reasonable to me because God has revealed his standard via prophecy, and the Qur’an has no such prophecy.

According to your wikipedia reference, I would guess it was a “selenelion or selenehelion”. I hope this discussion doesn’t become too scientific.

**The question is: Did Jesus die on the cross?

I don’t belive that he died on the cross. After coming down from the cross he was senseless nearly dead. I don’t know if he was a god at that time before cross or he was a god after the cross. How could a God die? That I cannot understand please.

Also after coming out of his room (dome), he met his friends, he never said even once that he had died and then came back to the world again. Did he ever say such a thing?? If he did not say it then nobody should say that. We Muslims do not believe that he had died.**

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi planten,

Do you believe that, when Jesus was on the cross, His side was plunged with a spear and blood and water came out (see John 19:34)?

 

[planten]

Hi planten,

Do you believe that, when Jesus was on the cross, His side was plunged with a spear and blood and water came out (see John 19:34)?

I believe that but I also believe that blood and water “GUSHED OUT”, not just came out.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

“GUSHED OUT”? And yet you’re still willing to say…

… I don’t belive that he died on the cross…

How can you justify your position? Do you know if there were any witnesses to Jesus surviving the crucifixion?

 

[Crispus]

Hi. I’ve been debating with JW’s for a long time and have researched the cross/stake issue in depth. I gave a lot or reasons to believe that Jesus did not die on a stake but on a cross
tinyurl.com/5z33kf

Most of the historical references I got from a poster named Leolia who wrote an indepth article about JW’s and the cross. The link for her paper is on post 6 of that page.