Did Jesus drink wine or was it grape juice ?

[Bill_Pick]

I can’t remember receiving the blood of christ whenever I have visited family in Ireland- I always thought it was a bit strange.

My uncle told me there was one priest who had to travel round various towns because there was (is?) such a lack of priests there to give mass and driving on his way home he was over the legal driving limit for alcohol.

What did the priest do travel around the world and back to drink all that wine, I think you uncle was telling you a old wise story ,as little as you get and the water that they put in the wine it can.t be done,unless the legal limit is ,000,5 LOL

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Jesus may not have had so many followers if he had turned wine into water. Seriously, on the outside of the grape there is natural yeast - airborn bacteria feeding on the natural fructose of the grape. Alcohol is in the process of being made. Unless it was pasteurised, and there is no record of this in the Gospels, the grape juice was (even in its weakest moment) young alcohol.

 

[brb2]

Why oh why do some people insist on copying other peoples work and passing it off as their own. Can these people not think up their own questions, or answers, or make a worthwhile contribution, of their own?

.

Cut Bill some slack. We all knew this wasn’t his original composition. He never intended to fool us. He can’t spell worth a damn …

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Periannath,

You know, moderation or, if you choose, abstanance are reasonable and appropriate choices.

On grape juice. It could be grape juice because the people of this time did have a way of making grape juice from jelly (used to preserve this). Some interpret this as the “new wine” in the sense that it is new, not fermented and also that it is “new” theologically; i.e. it is not tainted with the stain of sin and curse as fermentation often symbolizes in the new testament (thus many in the churches have used unleavened bread with this as an additional reason to others). However, I do not tend to think it was grape juice that Jesus drank and have no problem with it being wine. Some may emphasize that Jesus was holy and set apart unto God (we all know he is God in the flesh) in such a way that he abstained from alcohol just as the Nazarenes were in the time of the Judges. This is possible but I do not see it as necessary. This may not be the answer you are looking for but in the end I really do not know, and I do not think it matters so much. If we need to try to read into Christ’s miracle at the wedding in Cana that he drank it (and thus as the perfect man exampled this to us) so that we can justify our own right to use alcohol I think there may be some room for concern (that all depends on motive and intention though). I don’t see anything in Scripture that prohibits the consumption of alcohol as a intrinsic evil or sin. In wish case I one could point to temperance or moderation in its us as a wise standard further tempered by those among us who find that drinking goes against their conscience.
Peace.

Now, your post generated a thought of two … and, this is just a tad off topic… But, I really do think Christ ate yeast bread! Unlevened bread was for Passover - the rest of the year, regular bread was acceptable!

God bless

 

[Bill_Pick]

Cut Bill some slack. We all knew this wasn’t his original composition. He never intended to fool us. He can’t spell worth a damn …

No Bill does not spell good SORRY…But I have a question for Guyonthe street is this your answer to my PM to you

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

This is like “the pot calling the kettle black” - entertaining, but could we keep to the subject? For those of us with long memories: "Did Jesus drink wine or was it grape **juice?" Wine here is spelt without an ‘h’.
And it was the difference between bread which had time to rise and that which hadn’t; not yeast or yeast-free.
I’m visualizing Jesus at the Last Supper with a menu deciding between the 2.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Kevin,

Don’t forget the ‘new’ grape jam, jelly or spread…

This is like “the pot calling the kettle black” - entertaining, but could we keep to the subject? For those of us with long memories: "Did Jesus drink wine or was it grape **juice?" Wine here is spelt without an ‘h’.
And it was the difference between bread which had time to rise and that which hadn’t; not yeast or yeast-free.
I’m visualizing Jesus at the Last Supper with a menu deciding between the 2.

God bless

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Tom, is this this to be eaten on levened or unlevened bread? How thickly is it to be spread or does it spread thin? Do we have it with a cracker?
Wine or grape juice?
The Roman customary position (adopted by Jews?) for eating is to be sprawled on the floor - sshhh, people may take it as Gospel. Think of the scenario…old people, arthritis, rheumatism. If you thought an hour was long enough for a Church service, reconsider. It would take that long to assume the position.

 

[pipper]

Hi, Kevin,

Don’t forget the ‘new’ grape jam, jelly or spread…

God bless

Yes grape jelly without either sugar or pectin. Whoda thought?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Pipper, as you are listed *‘junior member’ *I can picture you sprawled at the feet of your father munching on a jello sandwich firmly in hand - dietary controlled, sugar-free, grape jello (and suitable for diabetics). Washed down with a juice.
Those sayings of Jesus about children have just got new meaning!!:tanning:

 

[pipper]

Pipper, as you are listed *‘junior member’ *I can picture you sprawled at the feet of your father munching on a jello sandwich firmly in hand - dietary controlled, sugar-free, grape jello (and suitable for diabetics). Washed down with a juice.
Those sayings of Jesus about children have just got new meaning!!:tanning:

Actually Im an Old fart of 54. But I nver heard of the grape jelly thing. That one is new on me!

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

To think at 54 I could be referred to as a “Junior Member” (that’s what description appears beneath your name on my PC!) Granted, with this new information the image I have pictured could do with tailoring. Apologies if I have offended (again); unintentional I can assure you.

 

[SonofMonica]

Protestants always forget to ask the Jews. Ask Jews what they drink to this day (do you really think they forgot their tradition?)… It is wine. We (Jesus, the Catholic Church) did not change the elements of the Passover meal at the institution of the Eucharist, only the significance (Sacrificial meal of New Covenant).

Same goes for incense, psalms in worship, etc., etc., it all comes from the Jews. We didn’t get it from pagans and we didn’t make it up. The answer to the OP’s rhetorical question is unequivocally “wine” and it is not open to debate, either from a factual or a doctrinal standpoint, period. Just ask the Jews.

jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm

 

[Periannath]

Hi, Periannath,

You know, moderation or, if you choose, abstanance are reasonable and appropriate choices.

Now, your post generated a thought of two … and, this is just a tad off topic… But, I really do think Christ ate yeast bread! Unlevened bread was for Passover - the rest of the year, regular bread was acceptable!

God bless

I agree. I think it is only relevant in discussing the last supper.

 

[pipper]

To think at 54 I could be referred to as a “Junior Member” (that’s what description appears beneath your name on my PC!) Granted, with this new information the image I have pictured could do with tailoring. Apologies if I have offended (again); unintentional I can assure you.

Kevin no offense taken at all. The way CA works is by registering the number of posts that one has. I immagine that a lot of the people with high post scores have either 1, been here a lot longer than I, or 2 Practically live on this one site.

I have been here less than a year, and I do other things on my computer than just CA, even have a life lol.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Alcoholic wine or grape juice?
Would it be off-centre to consider the situation of an alcoholic?
The accidents remain the same - wine. The nature becomes the blood of Christ.
For pragmatic purpose to consider including the outcast (in this case the alcoholic), at Holy Mass should we use grape juice in preference to alcohol?

John McArthur, a Protestant Biblical scholar, has written (CD version available) what I consider a really good article on the use of the juice of the grape in Biblical narrative (for example, in the New Testament what was considered ‘wine’ was often not the same as our own understanding).

 

[SonofMonica]

Alcoholic wine or grape juice?
Would it be off-centre to consider the situation of an alcoholic?
The accidents remain the same - wine. The nature becomes the blood of Christ.
For pragmatic purpose to consider including the outcast (in this case the alcoholic), at Holy Mass should we use grape juice in preference to alcohol?

John McArthur, a Protestant Biblical scholar, has written (CD version available) what I consider a really good article on the use of the juice of the grape in Biblical narrative (for example, in the New Testament what was considered ‘wine’ was often not the same as our own understanding).

John MacArthur is RABID anti-Catholic, and he wasn’t there. There are no credible non-Protestant theories supporting the grape juice idea. It’s simply a non-starter.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Kevin,

Without sarcasm, just what are you trying to say?

Tom, is this this to be eaten on levened or unlevened bread? How thickly is it to be spread or does it spread thin? Do we have it with a cracker?
Wine or grape juice?
The Roman customary position (adopted by Jews?) for eating is to be sprawled on the floor - sshhh, people may take it as Gospel. Think of the scenario…old people, arthritis, rheumatism. If you thought an hour was long enough for a Church service, reconsider. It would take that long to assume the position.

God bless

 

[FCEGM]

Alcoholic wine or grape juice?
Would it be off-centre to consider the situation of an alcoholic?
The accidents remain the same - wine. The nature becomes the blood of Christ.
For pragmatic purpose to consider including the outcast (in this case the alcoholic), at Holy Mass should we use grape juice in preference to alcohol?

John McArthur, a Protestant Biblical scholar, has written (CD version available) what I consider a really good article on the use of the juice of the grape in Biblical narrative (for example, in the New Testament what was considered ‘wine’ was often not the same as our own understanding).

Kevin, these articles should help counteract McArthur’s apparent influence in your thinking on this:

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0802btb.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2009/0902fea1.asp

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Hi, Kevin,

Without sarcasm, just what are you trying to say?

God bless

Literalism will only take us so far - common sense must prevail.
If we took things literally we would have things like underwater baptism (both communicant and celebrant being totally submerged), Acts 8:36-39.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (Sola scriptora?) At the time when St Paul is reputed to have said this the only Scripture available was the Old Testament.

What does this have to do with the question in hand? Surely what is intended is “the blood of the grape.”
Furnished to satisfy the weakest of our members.