Did Jesus drop by the hell of demons and the damned before ascending?

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Bill_A:
NO! That is true. As a catholic of 35 Years. I know the Aspostles creedo, the creedo by heart.

It says, He descended into hell and on the 3rd day he rose again. He descended into hell, Just to let Satan know he could, visited the souls in hell and than left. (When I was in Prison you visited me.) He did not bind Satan though. He will do that at the end of time on earth.
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If you learned the Apostles Creed in English, keep in mind that the Apostles neither spoke nor wrote in English.

You learned a translation of the Apostles Creed and it’s important to understand how correctly those particular words were translated.

In Greek, there were two different words, Gehenna, the place of the damned, and Hades, the place of the dead. In English we translate both as “Hell,” and lose the distinction. In the Greek version of the Apostles Creed, Christ descended to Hades, NOT Gehenna.

Christ did not descend to Gehenna to tease Satan by ringing his doorbell and then running away. He went to Hades to preach to all of the good souls who lived decent lives but died without having had heard of Him.
 
Paul W:
If you learned the Apostles Creed in English, keep in mind that the Apostles neither spoke nor wrote in English.

You learned a translation of the Apostles Creed and it’s important to understand how correctly those particular words were translated.

In Greek, there were two different words, Gehenna, the place of the damned, and Hades, the place of the dead. In English we translate both as “Hell,” and lose the distinction. In the Greek version of the Apostles Creed, Christ descended to Hades, NOT Gehenna.

Christ did not descend to Gehenna to tease Satan by ringing his doorbell and then running away. He went to Hades to preach to all of the good souls who lived decent lives but died without having had heard of Him.
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Paul, before you and others here preceed to condescend to me. Please research and refer to Church Doctrine. Christ most certainly descend into Hell to ring Satans doorebell and run away.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm

From the Vaticans Archieves.

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Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - *Sheol *in Hebrew or *Hades *in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482 "

**634 **"The gospel was preached even to the dead."483 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

**635 **Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."484 Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."485 Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."486 **
If you want to doubt that Jesus lived, or that he is the son of man. That is fine. Dogma is at best difficult to accept but the Nicene Creedo or the Apostles Creed is in itself a perfect piece of Catholic Doctrine and is irrifutable.
We believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell. On the third day, he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
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Bill:

Now I’m the one who is confused, because you have offered what you think is a perfect rebuttal, but instead have perfectly proven my point.

Those who died before Jesus’ death and resurrection could not have gone to Heaven. As it says in your citation, they were temporarily deprived of the vision of God while awaiting the Redeemer.

Your citation then goes on to say that those who were evil and those who were righteous had different lots. Do you think that righteous, holy people were burning in the fiery torments of Gehenna, just because they had the misfortune to predecease their Redeemer? Did they have to suffer temporary damnation while awaiting Jesus? Of course not.

Think of “Hell” as two distinct locations. The smoking section is Gehenna. It’s really bad, and once you get in, you don’t get to go to Heaven. It’s eternal damnation and fiery torment. None of your citations refer to Gehenna.

The non-smoking section was Hades. It was for decent people who just hadn’t heard of Jesus as the Messiah (because He hadn’t been born) or perhaps had heard of Jesus during His brief public ministry, but were waiting for Him to open the gates of Heaven. When Jesus died, He went to Hades, preached to the righteous who had died, and then He took them to Heaven.

He didn’t go to Gehenna to tease Satan or any of the other evil residents. They knew why they were there, and no amount of preaching, even from Jesus Himself, could have changed them.

Today the word “Hell” is commonly associated with Gehenna, and that confuses many people. That’s why modern translations say that “He descended to the dead.” It’s a more accurate translation of what the Church has always taught.
 
Oh Im sorry. Than I can assume that Hell is not really hell, but some lounge room in Las Vegas where people go for social drinking, good atmosphere, gambling and entertainment. Its good to know that the SPirit of Vatican II has replaced Hell with some kind of other place that is very un hell like.

Not.
 
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Bill_A:
Oh Im sorry. Than I can assume that Hell is not really hell, but some lounge room in Las Vegas where people go for social drinking, good atmosphere, gambling and entertainment. Its good to know that the SPirit of Vatican II has replaced Hell with some kind of other place that is very un hell like.

Not.
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Bill, I’m orthodox enough to hang bells from…

You are wrong. Jesus died, His Spirit (or soul) descended to the LIMBUS PATRUM, or Limbo of the Fathers, which is definitely not the hell of the damned, and on the third day He rose again from the dead.

This has nothing to do with Vatican II or the Spirit of Vatican II, or anything else. It has to do with Sacred Scripture, the Church Fathers, the ancient teaching of the Church’s Tradition and the Church’s Magesterium. Saying that Jesus descended to the Limbus Patrum (or to the dead), and not the hell of the damned is nothing new and does not, in any way, claim that the hell of the damned does not exist. Please read the excellent posts above with more care and less emotion.
 
Please read the post I made from the Vatican II archieves where it says Shoel translates from hebrew to Hell. And this has been Cannon, or should I say Dogma from about 200-900 AD.
 
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Bill_A:
Please read the post I made from the Vatican II archieves where it says Shoel translates from hebrew to Hell. And this has been Cannon, or should I say Dogma from about 200-900 AD.
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Yes it has… and it also categorically disagrees with your position that Jesus descended to the hell of the damned.

The teaching of the Limbus Patrum is an old teaching that pre-dates Vatican II, it is nothing new. Theres a very simply way to prove this. Look it up in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:

newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm

Your quotes from the “archives” are actually from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a summation of Catholic doctrine promulgated in 1992. The CCC is a compendium and “reference text” (Fidei Depositum, intro), and it does not contain an exhaustive explaination of theologies that follow from these doctrines. “Canon” (Canon of Scripture, Canon Law, Canon of the Mass) is not the same thing as dogma.
 
Yes it does. Your just trying to do what every other dysfunactional person in the church does and try to explain that what it says is not what it says.

Your saying oh it says hell but hell is not really wrong and you are wrong. HELL IS HELL.
 
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Bill_A:
Yes it does. Your just trying to do what every other dysfunactional person in the church does and try to explain that what it says is not what it says.

Your saying oh it says hell but hell is not really wrong and you are wrong. HELL IS HELL.
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There’s a yiddish word for people like you… 😉

You are wrong about me, wrong about the creed, and you are simply too pig headed to see it. God help us if you are a catechist. I’m done with you. God bless.
 
BillA:

You’re blinded by semantics. You’re using words without understanding what they mean. Try to unlock your intellect and understand, instead of assuming that what you once understood is eternally correct.

Yes, there is a real place of eternal damnation and fiery torment. The souls who are sent there are never released. That place is, in the Greek of the Apostles, Gehenna. That is the word used in the Vatican documents you cited.

Those good people who died before their salvation was earned by Jesus were not condemned to this punishment simply because they died to early. They went to a different place, called Hades.

The word “Hell” was never once uttered by the Apostles, not even those who had the gift of speaking in tongues.

Never, not even once. --Because it’s an Old English word that hadn’t yet been invented.

If you try to apply a 20th century American understanding of a fifth century Old English synonym for a first century Greek word, you’re bound to be confused.
 
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