Did Jesus ever condemn the Romans?

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FaithBuild18

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Did He ever say anything against the Romans? I was amazed when I read what He said to soldiers. He had the perfect opportunity to chastise them for their imperialistic ways, or for following imperialistic orders, but He didn’t. Did not He in fact praise a Roman soldier for his great faith?

I have not read all of the scriptures, but of what I’ve read so far, He hasn’t particularly struck out against the Romans. His refusal to do so even seemed to have displeased a lot of the Jews.
 
Did Jesus condemn anyone, in the sense of saying “You will go to Hell?”?

These are the only instances of the top of my head where Jesus comments on people in this tone.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 26:24[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 18:6[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 19:23[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 23:27[/BIBLEDRB]
 
Did He ever say anything against the Romans? I was amazed when I read what He said to soldiers. He had the perfect opportunity to chastise them for their imperialistic ways, or for following imperialistic orders, but He didn’t. Did not He in fact praise a Roman soldier for his great faith?

I have not read all of the scriptures, but of what I’ve read so far, He hasn’t particularly struck out against the Romans. His refusal to do so even seemed to have displeased a lot of the Jews.
Aside from the incident with the centurion/official (whichever it was) I doubt Jesus - or anyone for that matter - would have even seen Roman soldiers that often, especially in the Galilee.
 
Not only is there apparently no scriptural evidence of Jesus condemning the Romans, but Paul seems to have either forgotten that they crucified an innocent man or gave them a pass for doing so.

Romans 13:1-7 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

13 Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God.

2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation.

3 For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same.

4 For he is God’s minister to thee, for good. But if thou do that which is evil, fear: for he beareth not the sword in vain. For he is God’s minister: an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil.

5 Wherefore be subject of necessity, not only for wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.

6 For therefore also you pay tribute. For they are the ministers of God, serving unto this purpose.

7 Render therefore to all men their dues. Tribute, to whom tribute is due: custom, to whom custom: fear, to whom fear: honour, to whom honour.
 
The Romans entirely? NO!!!

This would be like saying that Jesus condemned all the Jews or the Pagans that never heard of him. Now should someone read Christ’s teachings put deep thought into it and reject it. Then only the Good Lord Knows.

The Roman story is that of beauty. The most cruel and and unethical conquerors turned into a devout Christian Empire spreading the Gospel as far as it could reach. Yes, I think the Roman Story is a true miracle from God the Almighty.
 
Jesus ministry was for the jews only the romans were gentiles. Jesus and the apostles hardly spoke or had contact with the gentiles. Also the romans weren’t responsible for Jesus death it was the jewish officials or sanhendrin that wanted to kill Jesus so they contacted pilate because they couldn’t do it by themselves.
 
Jesus ministry was for the jews only the romans were gentiles. Jesus and the apostles hardly spoke or had contact with the gentiles. Also the romans weren’t responsible for Jesus death it was the jewish officials or sanhendrin that wanted to kill Jesus so they contacted pilate because they couldn’t do it by themselves.
The system worked like this. The governing official (in this case, the prefect of Judaea province) usually delegated many of his duties to local magistrates (in this case, the high priest, his council of advisors, and leading citizens), which includes keeping public order by detaining troublemakers and nuisances. Now Rome normally did not extend the right of capital punishment to its subjects, and it seems that Judaea is no exception (although some think otherwise). The best thing that could be done officially was for the officials to make a recommendation to the prefect, who will then act on it.
 
The Roman story is that of beauty. The most cruel and and unethical conquerors turned into a devout Christian Empire spreading the Gospel as far as it could reach. Yes, I think the Roman Story is a true miracle from God the Almighty.
This is what I was thinking as well. I honestly feel like the Romans had a special place in Jesus’ heart, because He knew that one day the Glory of His Holy Name would spread across the land by their voices.

But I am surprised that he never took a moment to condemn imperialism, which was prominent during this time. I struggle to conclude that imperialism is inherently evil as many say.
 
This is what I was thinking as well. I honestly feel like the Romans had a special place in Jesus’ heart, because He knew that one day the Glory of His Holy Name would spread across the land by their voices.

But I am surprised that he never took a moment to condemn imperialism, which was prominent during this time. I struggle to conclude that imperialism is inherently evil as many say.
I don’t think He condemned it directly, but I do think He in some ways have criticized it (as well as the other kingdoms of this world) implicitly.

But Jesus, having called them near, says to them, “You have known that those who are considered to rule the nations lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it is not so among you; instead, whoever wants to become great among you will be your servant, and whoever wants to become first will be slave of all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.”

Pilate, therefore, entered again into the praetorium, and called Jesus, and said to him, “Are you the King of the Judaeans?” Jesus answered him, “Are you saying this from yourself, or did others tell you about me?”
Pilate answered, “I am not a Judaean, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests handed you over to me. What did you do?” Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my subordinates would struggle that I might not be handed over to the Judaeans. But now, my kingdom is not from here.”
 
I think it reflects the high value Jesus placed on the spiritual growth of each individual, and His comparative indifference to passing temporal phenomena, such as kingdoms and governments.
 
But I am surprised that he never took a moment to condemn imperialism, which was prominent during this time. I struggle to conclude that imperialism is inherently evil as many say.
Well I think he did but he didn’t directly call it out. Yet he kept it simple. There is only one King the Father in Heaven and all the Heaven and Earth is his Empire. And all human kings and Empires are nothing compared to God’s Holy Empire
 
Well I think he did but he didn’t directly call it out. Yet he kept it simple. There is only one King the Father in Heaven and all the Heaven and Earth is his Empire. And all human kings and Empires are nothing compared to God’s Holy Empire
Correct.

We today are so used to the idea of religion and politics being kept apart with each other. In the ancient world, however, there was no such division. This is the reason why many cultures have had the idea of the ruler being sacred: he is treated as being either a mediator between gods and men or the descendant of a certain god or even a god in his own right.

I like to use a certain ancient Japanese word for ‘politics’ as an example here: matsurigoto. Now the word matsuri today means something like ‘festival’ in a general sense, but originally denoted a religious feast or ceremony. Kind of like the word ‘holiday’ (holy + day). So literally translated, matsurigoto means ‘matters (pertaining to) religious ritual’. Which for the ancient Japanese pretty much summed up what politics was about.

So when Jesus talked about the “Kingdom (or Kingship) of God,” it also had a gritty, radical political edge to it. Saying that the God of Israel is King of the earth meant that Caesar isn’t. One could say that this Kingdom is unique and superior: it is “not from this world,” in other words it is not like the sort of kingdom that this world begets, which makes its way by injustice and violence. Jesus preached the euangelion (“good news”) of God, in a world where euangelion meant a proclamation by or news about the emperor, the lord and savior of the world.

Minor trivia: most soldiers in Judaea at the time would most likely not have been native Italians. Prefects, who were usually drawn from the equestrian order, did not have the authority to command a legion, which only admitted Roman citizens. The nearest legions were stationed in Syria under the command of the legate (the prefect’s immediate superior). The prefect commanded auxiliary troops, which were recruited from non-citizens or peregrini. The auxiliaries in Judaea would have been mostly from areas like Samaria (Sebaste) or Greek Syria. AFAIK we have no record of any Jew from the region serving as an auxiliary (and I doubt that many Jews would have wanted anything to do with the Roman army anyway), but I don’t think it’s impossible.
 
Correct.

We today are so used to the idea of religion and politics being kept apart with each other. In the ancient world, however, there was no such division. This is the reason why many cultures have had the idea of the ruler being sacred: he is treated as being either a mediator between gods and men or the descendant of a certain god or even a god in his own right.

I like to use a certain ancient Japanese word for ‘politics’ as an example here: matsurigoto. Now the word matsuri today means something like ‘festival’ in a general sense, but originally denoted a religious feast or ceremony. Kind of like the word ‘holiday’ (holy + day). So literally translated, matsurigoto means ‘matters (pertaining to) religious ritual’. Which for the ancient Japanese pretty much summed up what politics was about.

So when Jesus talked about the “Kingdom (or Kingship) of God,” it also had a gritty, radical political edge to it. Saying that the God of Israel is King of the earth meant that Caesar isn’t. One could say that this Kingdom is unique and superior: it is “not from this world,” in other words it is not like the sort of kingdom that this world begets, which makes its way by injustice and violence. Jesus preached the euangelion (“good news”) of God, in a world where euangelion meant a proclamation by or news about the emperor, the lord and savior of the world.

Minor trivia: most soldiers in Judaea at the time would most likely not have been native Italians. Prefects, who were usually drawn from the equestrian order, did not have the authority to command a legion, which only admitted Roman citizens. The nearest legions were stationed in Syria under the command of the legate (the prefect’s immediate superior). The prefect commanded auxiliary troops, which were recruited from non-citizens or peregrini. The auxiliaries in Judaea would have been mostly from areas like Samaria (Sebaste) or Greek Syria. AFAIK we have no record of any Jew from the region serving as an auxiliary (and I doubt that many Jews would have wanted anything to do with the Roman army anyway), but I don’t think it’s impossible.
So then, how can we govern our people? If Jesus says that he is the King, and that the kings on this earth are nothing, does this mean that a democracy is the best way to govern, and that kingdoms on earth are inherently flawed? I feel like that can’t be so, because in a democracy/republic we have separated government from the Church, and our rulers, though elected, assume authority without even acknowledging the Lord. Would it not be better to have a monarchy that is bound by Church teaching? Or are we supposed to not have a government at all, with nobody but Christ as our leader? Surely the good Lord was not an anarchist. Was he?
 
Correct.

We today are so used to the idea of religion and politics being kept apart with each other. In the ancient world, however, there was no such division. This is the reason why many cultures have had the idea of the ruler being sacred: he is treated as being either a mediator between gods and men or the descendant of a certain god or even a god in his own right.

I like to use a certain ancient Japanese word for ‘politics’ as an example here: matsurigoto. Now the word matsuri today means something like ‘festival’ in a general sense, but originally denoted a religious feast or ceremony. Kind of like the word ‘holiday’ (holy + day). So literally translated, matsurigoto means ‘matters (pertaining to) religious ritual’. Which for the ancient Japanese pretty much summed up what politics was about.

So when Jesus talked about the “Kingdom (or Kingship) of God,” it also had a gritty, radical political edge to it. Saying that the God of Israel is King of the earth meant that Caesar isn’t. One could say that this Kingdom is unique and superior: it is “not from this world,” in other words it is not like the sort of kingdom that this world begets, which makes its way by injustice and violence. Jesus preached the euangelion (“good news”) of God, in a world where euangelion meant a proclamation by or news about the emperor, the lord and savior of the world.

Minor trivia: most soldiers in Judaea at the time would most likely not have been native Italians. Prefects, who were usually drawn from the equestrian order, did not have the authority to command a legion, which only admitted Roman citizens. The nearest legions were stationed in Syria under the command of the legate (the prefect’s immediate superior). The prefect commanded auxiliary troops, which were recruited from non-citizens or peregrini. The auxiliaries in Judaea would have been mostly from areas like Samaria (Sebaste) or Greek Syria. AFAIK we have no record of any Jew from the region serving as an auxiliary (and I doubt that many Jews would have wanted anything to do with the Roman army anyway), but I don’t think it’s impossible.
I’m not so sure about that. Pilate had plenty of steady Roman soldiers to draw from and keep the peace, though technically he did not command a formal legion. Then as now, being a soldier was an opportunity for adventure and gain through criminal activity.

As far as the legions admitting only Roman citizens, if you were strong and willing to fight, it would have been EXTREMELY easy to get a citizenship no matter what your country of origin.

But certainly Antipas had his own sizable army, which Jesus WAS afraid of, especially so after the execution of John the Baptist.

In the broader perspective, it was a common belief among most Judaic religious factions that no one came into power without God’s approval, so the Roman were accepted. “Render unto Caesar…”

The Zealots did NOT agree with that, however, and became their own quasi-religious group.
 
I’m not so sure about that. Pilate had plenty of steady Roman soldiers to draw from and keep the peace, though technically he did not command a formal legion. Then as now, being a soldier was an opportunity for adventure and gain through criminal activity.
As a part of his standing orders the governor had the authority to use military force to stamp out organized criminal gangs or rebels in the area without need for the Emperor’s or Senate’s approval. At the most the prefect had at his disposal 3000 auxiliaries, which is big, but not enough when things went seriously wrong. In which case the legate of Syria would have to descend with his troops (four legions, totalling approximately 20,000 infantry, and 5,000 cavalry, were under the legate’s disposal) as necessary to give aid.

Two cohorts had their barracks in Jerusalem (at the old palace of Herod the Great and at the Antonia fortress); a third cohort stayed with the prefect and guarded Caesarea Maritima; and two cohorts of infantry and one cavalry regiment were on duty throughout the province. Very often, however, they stayed out of Jewish sight, and towns and villages were generally ran as they had always been: by a group of native elders (prominent priests and laymen) with one or more serving as magistrates. The magistrates were Jews and ruled according to Jewish law, the schools were Jewish, and the religion was Jewish.
But certainly Antipas had his own sizable army, which Jesus WAS afraid of, especially so after the execution of John the Baptist.
Indeed, though Rome may have also sent backup in emergency cases. The Galilee was very different from Judaea: while in Judaea the official Roman presence was very small, in the Galilee by contrast there was no official Roman presence. Greek-speaking gentiles formed a crescent around the region: there were gentile cities to the east, north and west. Scythopolis is the one gentile city within the geographical Galilee, but it was independent of political Galilee. Antipas governed the Galilee as tetrach as his father governed a larger state as ‘King of the Judaeans’, under the same terms and conditions: he paid tribute, cooperated with Rome and kept public order with his own military force, to which Rome in return protected him against invasion by implied threat of retaliation against invaders. It thus gave Antipas free rein to do what he wished as long as the terms were being fulfilled.

Antipas’ father, Herod the Great’s army - the last independent regular Jewish military force before the Israel Defense Forces were formed 2000 years later - is actually a pretty interesting topic in itself. Osprey Publishing’s flagship Men-at-Arms series actually has a book on it.
As far as the legions admitting only Roman citizens, if you were strong and willing to fight, it would have been EXTREMELY easy to get a citizenship no matter what your country of origin.
The auxilia admitted citizens, peregrini, and probably even ‘barbarians’ (the peoples located outside the Empire’s borders). By the Julio-Claudian period, one could actually gain citizenship by serving for a minimum of 25 years, at the end of which the retiring auxiliary soldier and all his children were awarded Roman citizenship.
In the broader perspective, it was a common belief among most Judaic religious factions that no one came into power without God’s approval, so the Roman were accepted. “Render unto Caesar…”
The Zealots did NOT agree with that, however, and became their own quasi-religious group.
There were apparently three main ways to cope with Roman rule: collaboration, passive resistance, and active resistance.
 
So then, how can we govern our people? If Jesus says that he is the King, and that the kings on this earth are nothing, does this mean that a democracy is the best way to govern, and that kingdoms on earth are inherently flawed? I feel like that can’t be so, because in a democracy/republic we have separated government from the Church, and our rulers, though elected, assume authority without even acknowledging the Lord. Would it not be better to have a monarchy that is bound by Church teaching? Or are we supposed to not have a government at all, with nobody but Christ as our leader? Surely the good Lord was not an anarchist. Was he?
I think you’re projecting the modern idea of politics onto it.

The history of Israel is really centered on the idea that God is king over the nations, not just in some nebulous, ‘spiritual’ way, but in a real way. Even though many Jews longed for God to become king in the full, complete way He had promised, they acknowledged that He was already, in a sense, sovereign over the nations. He did allow pagan kings to rule, since He did not want His creation to collapse into anarchy. But He did judge rulers severely (cf. Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar). The Jews assumed that God had made the world in such a way as to be properly ordered and run by human beings. This is why in Genesis, God is shown to give authority to man to rule over the rest of creation:

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

So for the Jews, ‘theocracy’ meant God being in charge mediated through His image-bearers. In the ideal scenario, the world works best when ruled by wise stewards who are humble before God and hence effective in bringing fruitful order in the world. Now look at the context at the time. The emperor was touted as the lord and savior of the world, the divi filius (‘son of [a] god’; the original holder of this title was Augustus Octavian, son of divus Iulius ‘the divine Julius’). Does this look like a ‘humble steward before God’?
 
BTW, here’s something about Jesus’ and Pilate’s conversation in John 18 by N.T. (Tom) Wright:

Which brings us back neatly, in the second half of this lecture, to John chapter 18 and 19. What might John have to say, through this astonishing conversation of Jesus and Pilate, to the confused and confusing world of our own day?

Out of the many things that could be said I want to explore the three themes of my title: Kingdom, power and truth. The opening exchange between Pilate and the Judaean leaders (18.28-32) looks like a kind of shadow-boxing: Pilate, with his own intelligence networks, surely knew what charge they were proposing to bring, but wanted to force them into a concession of their own judicial impotence to deal with what they regarded as a capital charge. Pilate then (18.33-38) asks Jesus directly whether he is ‘the King of the Jews’: this was the substance of the charge, as we see later in 19.12, where the Judaean leaders declare that ‘everyone who makes himself a king is setting himself up against Caesar’, which leads directly to their own counter-victory over Pilate. After a preliminary verbal skirmish, Jesus launches in to a description of his ‘kingdom’, the substance of which is, Yes, I am a king and have a kingdom, but No, it isn’t the sort of kingdom you might imagine (18.36).

This is the point at which semi- or crypto-gnostic readings of the text have held sway for a long time, partly due to the King James Version translation: ‘My kingdom is not of this world’, which has then been read in the straightforward, but deeply mistaken, sense of ‘My kingdom consists of a place called “heaven” which has nothing much to do with this world.’ But the Greek speaks of the kingdom being not ek tou kosmou toutou, not from this world. It comes from somewhere else – as, indeed, Jesus had earlier strikingly claimed about himself (8.23), and then, even more strikingly, about his followers (17.14). Granted all that we know about Jesus on the one hand and about first-century Jewish kingdom-of-God language on the other (begging, of course, several major questions at this point), we must say that the ‘kingdom’ of which Jesus was speaking was not from this world, but was emphatically for this world: a kingdom from the creator, the one Jesus called ‘Father’, and intended as the sovereignty which would replace the usurped sovereignty of ‘the ruler of this world’ and the human agents which that dark power had employed. This is, I think, the first and greatest point to be got across in relation not only to contemporary muddles and misunderstandings but to many generations of misreadings of all four canonical gospels: that, over against all Gnostic attempts, ancient and modern, to make ‘kingdom’-language denote an otherworldly bliss, it stubbornly retains its full Jewish sense, world-affirming and indeed world-reclaiming. God’s kingdom must come ‘on earth as in heaven’, and precisely for that reason it is not ‘from’ this world. That which is only from this world can only imitate the way things are done from within the world; and the key example given by Jesus, presupposing that he is a king but demonstrating the difference between his sort of kingdom and all others, is that if his kingdom were from this world his followers would fight to prevent him being handed over. This marks almost as radical a departure from normal kingdom-ideas as the gnostic one does, but in a very different direction. In the present world, violence is what kingdoms do: however much they dress it up, sovereignty is enforced, and sooner or later that means restraint, and sooner or later restraint means violence. But, as Jesus said to James and John in Mark 10, ‘It shall not be so among you.’

This point is rammed home with massive though characteristic Johannine irony in the next chapter when Jesus is mocked by the soldiers, crowned with thorns, dressed in purple and hailed as king. The resonances of the next charge – that Jesus made himself to be the Son of God (19.7) – are wider, but in the Roman world amount to the same thing: the phrase ‘son of God’ was of course in regular use as a key epithet for Caesar, Tiberius being the adopted son of the deified Augustus as he had been of Julius Caesar. But Caesar’s divine rule was implemented by threatening and inflicting violence, not by suffering it. Pilate then emphasizes Jesus’ kingship, both in his ironic statement and question to the crowd (19.14-15), and then at last, paying them back, in the inscription on the cross. Earlier, when Caiaphas had predicted that one man would die for the people, John had commented that this was an unwitting prophecy of Jesus’ upcoming redeeming death (11.49-52). John seldom repeats such a hint, and we should be in no doubt what he intends here. When Pilate has the words ‘King of the Jews’ written out and stuck on Jesus’ cross, and when he refuses to alter it, John is emphasizing that Jesus is indeed ‘the king of the Jews’, the only one in fact who had understood, let alone been obedient to, the strange servant-vocation of the ancient people of God, to whom he had come as his own and not been received. And the point about being ‘the king of the Jews’ is that, in ancient messianic expectation reflecting beliefs and poems about David and Solomon, the ultimate king of the Jews will be the ultimate king of the world. His dominion will be from the one sea to the other, and from the River to the ends of the earth. Early Christianity did not have to shed its Jewish Messianism in order to be relevant to the wider world, as so many scholars used to think. It is precisely because they believed Jesus to be the King of the Jews that the early Christians proclaimed him as the true Lord of the world. Pilate, in refusing to change the inscription, has done in his own way, to his own status, what the chief priests had done a few verses earlier to theirs. They had said ‘we have no king but Caesar’, thus stepping down drastically from everything that made Israel Israel (and anticipating the move made by Flavius Josephus a generation later). Now Pilate declares, however unwittingly, that Jesus is in fact ‘the king of the Jews’, and is thereby hailing him as the true king, the reality of which Caesar was just a dull and dangerous parody. (Perhaps this is the moment to acknowledge the ancient legend that Pilate was British, in fact Scottish, in fact from St Andrews itself.)
 
Slight thread drift.

This reminds me of the difference in the secular and the Christian view of people vs government/society.

To the secular world, people live less than a century, while governments/societies may live for several centuries. Thus people are expected to devote themselves to building up the enduring structure which will out live them.

To the Christian, the governments/societies are short-lived temporal structures which should be supporting people in their preparation for eternal life.
 
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