Did Jesus ever go down to Hell?

[tafan]

Yes Christ died, so his human body and soul were seperated. What I find problematic is saying Jesus’s soul went to hell, since this seems to imply his divine nature did not, which implies his divine and human natures’ hypo static union was broken with Christ’s death, which it was not.

Or alternatively, it seems to imply an equivalence between Christ’s human soul and Christ’s divinity, which are not the same thing.

I do not have the book in front of me you cite, perhaps the author explains his use of the word soul better? A soul is part of a human nature, a divine nature does not have a soul.

 

[fred_conty]

Yes Christ died, so his human body and soul were seperated. What I find problematic is saying Jesus’s soul went to hell, since this seems to imply his divine nature did not, which implies his divine and human natures’ hypo static union was broken with Christ’s death, which it was not.

Or alternatively, it seems to imply an equivalence between Christ’s human soul and Christ’s divinity, which are not the same thing.

I do not have the book in front of me you cite, perhaps the author explains his use of the word soul better? A soul is part of a human nature, a divine nature does not have a soul.

This can be answered by saying that if Jesus’ body was not separated from his soul, then he did not die. And that is for sure.

Hell does not mean the hell of the damned, but the place where the just resided. Hell of the damned is a different entity.

Just some thoughts.

 

[tafan]

This can be answered by saying that if Jesus’ body was not separated from his soul, then he did not die. And that is for sure.

Hell does not mean the hell of the damned, but the place where the just resided. Hell of the damned is a different entity.

Just some thoughts.

I am not questioning that Jesus died, nor your definition of death. I acknowledged that in both if my posts. So please quit bringing that point up.
Either you are not reading my posts or I am not being clear. I will assume the latter, and try a different approach.

So let me ask a question: Did Christ’s divine nature descend to hell? Based on the text quoted, how do you arrive at your answer?

 

[fred_conty]

I am not questioning that Jesus died, nor your definition of death. I acknowledged that in both if my posts. So please quit bringing that point up.
Either you are not reading my posts or I am not being clear. I will assume the latter, and try a different approach.

So let me ask a question: Did Christ’s divine nature descend to hell? Based on the text quoted, how do you arrive at your answer?

The question is, did Jesus go to hell. Yes, if we mean by hell that where the just people went before the coming of Jesus. And no, if we mean by hell that where the evil people went who were condemned.

We know that Jesus had two natures, divine and human. To be human we need both body and soul.

But the soul belonging to anyone’s humanity goes on living after human death, when the body is no longer in condition to keep the soul united to it. But even tho the soul is detached from the body it is still a human soul.

So the answer to the question of whether his divine nature desended, it would be yes, for his divine nature would not be severed from his human soul which was alive after it’s separation from his human body.

You asked a good question.

 

[triumphguy]

I really suggest that people who are interested in this topic read Balthasar.

 

[tafan]

The question is, did Jesus go to hell. Yes, if we mean by hell that where the just people went before the coming of Jesus. And no, if we mean by hell that where the evil people went who were condemned.

We know that Jesus had two natures, divine and human. To be human we need both body and soul.

But the soul belonging to anyone’s humanity goes on living after human death, when the body is no longer in condition to keep the soul united to it. But even tho the soul is detached from the body it is still a human soul.

So the answer to the question of whether his divine nature desended, it would be yes, for his divine nature would not be severed from his human soul which was alive after it’s separation from his human body.

You asked a good question.

This is what I have been saying. Now, your original post had the words “After His Death, Christ’s soul, which was separated from His Body, descended into the underworld”, which is not wrong, but I said it was troubling. Why? Because it specifies His soul, which would seem to indicate only his soul. Which indicates one of two things: either His hypostatic union was broken at the time of His death, or that His soul and His divine nature are the same thing. The latter is a common error people make, and it is a heresy.

I hope you understand the point of all of my posts now. I find little reason for the author you quoted to specify is was Jesus’s soul that descended to Hell, as it leads to this misunderstanding. If one wants to stress that Jesus died and the definition of death (ie the separation of the body and soul), it can certainly be done in a different context, without the danger of propagating a error in reader’s minds. Hence, I found it troubling, not wrong per see, but troubling.

 

[jnorris]

I went down into the countries underneath the earth to the peoples of the past, but You lifted my life from the pit.
Oh Lord, my God.
Jonah 2:6 Greek Version

 

[aux1]

I guess what I’m confused about is why Christ had to go there.

Because he was dead. In Judaism, dead people go to Sheol (unless they’re really evil, in which case they have to go through Gehenna first). Jesus died, so he went to Sheol… As simple as that. As Jesus rose from the dead, he left Sheol.

Also, the technical name for the concept is harrowing of hell: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

Was it necessary for him to go there in order to show that Satan had no power over him even in Gehenna?

Satan never had power over Jesus. To us today, Satan is an anti-God. An opposite principle, light versus darkness, life versus death, etc. That’s not the case in Judaism. In Jewish religion, Ha-Satan is God’s angel sent to test loyalty and righteousness of Lord’s subjects… his job is to tempt people into sin, but he has no power of his own. whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation7.html

 

[Cathoholic]

There are some fine posts above.

“He descended into hell” is probably better translated as
“He descended into Hades.”

What is “Hades” (sometimes called “Sheol”)?

Hades (Greek) or Sheol (Hebrew) is two words that just mean the same thing: “the realm of the dead” or “the abode of the dead”.

That’s all you can say about Hades—“the realm of the dead”.

From ONLY the word “Hades”, you can’t say if a given person went to Heaven, or some other place. The word Hades is just not specific enough.

Hades = “Abode of the dead”

At the end of time, we will all have our public (general) judgment and ALL people get their bodies back (people in Heaven will have bodies back and people in eternal condemnation will have their bodies too!).

Then at the end of time, there will then be no more Hades/Sheol (Revelation 20:13-14).

Our bodies will be radically different too.

Then there will ONLY be Heaven and what most English-speaking people call “Hell” or “the place of eternal punishment and eternal separation from God”.

In Old Testament Times:
Someone in Hades/Sheol was in 1 of the 3 situations:

1. Some sort of bliss waiting for Heaven to be opened by Jesus (commonly called “Abraham’s bosom”)
2. Some state of suffering and atonement for those who are going to a state of bliss but still in need of cleansing.
3. A state or “place” of eternal suffering forever and ever (eternal separation from God—what some English speaking people call “hell” but the etymology of this word can contribute to doctrinal confusion for reasons I won’t get into here).

In New Covenant Times:
Someone in Hades/Sheol could be in 1 of 3 situations:

1. Heaven (which Jesus has now opened)
2. Purgatory (Some state of suffering and atonement for those who are going to a state of bliss but still in need of cleansing).
3. A state or “place” of eternal suffering forever and ever (eternal separation from God—what some English speaking people call “hell” but the etymology of this word has contributed to doctrinal confusion for reasons I won’t get into here so I am reluctant to use the WORD Hell).

At the End of Time:

1. Heaven
2. Eternal Punishment

I don’t know how much longer Dr. Pitre will leave this up but here is an excellent FREE talk to listen to about this whole “Hades” subject. brantpitre.com/jesus-descent-into-hell-interview.html

Hope this helps.

 

[NovusAugustus]

In Old Testament Times:
Someone in Hades/Sheol was in 1 of the 3 situations:

1. Some sort of bliss waiting for Heaven to be opened by Jesus (commonly called “Abraham’s bosom”)
2. Some state of suffering and atonement for those who are going to a state of bliss but still in need of cleansing.
3. A state or “place” of eternal suffering forever and ever (eternal separation from God—what some English speaking people call “hell” but the etymology of this word can contribute to doctrinal confusion for reasons I won’t get into here).

In New Covenant Times:
Someone in Hades/Sheol could be in 1 of 3 situations:

1. Heaven (which Jesus has now opened)
2. Purgatory (Some state of suffering and atonement for those who are going to a state of bliss but still in need of cleansing).
3. A state or “place” of eternal suffering forever and ever (eternal separation from God—what some English speaking people call “hell” but the etymology of this word has contributed to doctrinal confusion for reasons I won’t get into here so I am reluctant to use the WORD Hell).

At the End of Time:

1. Heaven
2. Eternal Punishment

This helped a lot. A big part of my confusion was that I assumed that the Jewish afterlife (
“Hades”)was somehow radically different from the New Covenant afterlife (“Hades”), but when you put it like this, I see the continuity and completeness of this system. This has really enhanced my understanding. Thanks

Also, triumphguy, I’ll check out Balthasar. Thanks for the reference. And I wish you the best of luck (and fortitude) with your quest to lose weight.

Happy Easter to everyone! Christus ressurexit…from Sheol!

 

[Cathoholic]

Thanks for the kind word NovusAugustus.

Cathoholic

 

[PeterGStanley]

We say it as a truth in the apostles creed every Sunday.

 

[Cathoholic]

Came across a little more “Hades” items. More support for what was already stated.

I am posting it in case someone pulls this up out of the archives so they have a couple of sources.

St Hippolytus on Hades. (My Hippolytus Quote is from Harmony Media, “The Early Church Fathers”. Taken from: THE CONCLUSION IS WANTING. AGAINST PLATO, ON THE CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE)

Hippolytus died in 236 A.D. so we know whenever he wrote this, it was EARLY.

But now we must speak of Hades, in which the souls both of the righteous and the unrighteous are detained. . . .

St. Hippolytus of Rome goes on to state he thinks its location is within the earth. Since it is a holding spot for the spiritual realm (not physical), you wouldn’t be able to “scientifically” prove or disprove that. I just mention the “science” stuff because inevitably someone who ascribes to “scientism” is going to enquire about that. This pre-empts that from becoming an issue.

The point is, concerning the word “Hades”, the best you can do is call it “the abode of the dead” but the word “Hades" does NOT necessarily denote a destiny of condemnation. Nor does the mere word “Hades” necessarily denote a Heavenly destiny either. You just cannot tell from the word “Hades” alone. You need more information.

Here is a quote from Josephus (born in 37 A.D. and died in 101 A.D. so these are also ancient writings).

They (the Sadducees ) also take away belief in the immortal duration of the soul, as also **in punishments and **rewards in Hades.

If “Hades” was synonymous with condemnation, Josephus wouldn’t use it in the context of a place where some souls obtain punishments, others, rewards.

If I recall correctly, Josephus himself was a Levitical Priest and thus likely a Sadducee himself.

Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) on the subject . . . . .

CCC 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.

Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”

Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

Also sooner or later if you study the eternal condemnation issue you will ask yourself about another word that raises interest. The word is “Tartarus”

I found this quote over at Catholic Legate and was quite helpful.

Here St. Peter uses “Tartarus” a word borrowed from Greek mythology. Tartarus is the lowest place of hell (Hades) where the most evil and vile are tormented.

Someone once said to me “Well Hades and Tartarus must be myths because these words are used in Greek Mythology".

I replied, “You’ve got to be careful with that kind of reasoning. Greek Mythology talks about Heaven too. Is “Heaven” a “myth”? No!

The ancient Greek pagan literature, talks about “mountains, and rivers, and all kinds of things we all quite appropriately affirm”. Just because we use some of the “language” in Christianity, doesn’t mean we assert the doctrine of the ancient pagan Greeks.

I hope this was helpful for someone.

God bless.

Cathoholic