Did Jesus Exist? (Pros and Cons)

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Why do you feel the need to repeatedly denigrate Edith Stein and her conversion experience?

From the Catholic Education Resource Center:

Edith Stein is one of those people whose entire life seems to be a sign. She was born on Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, in 1891 in Breslau, Germany (now Wroclaw, Poland), the youngest of eleven children in a devout Jewish family.

When she was not yet two years old her father died suddenly, leaving Edith’s mother to raise the seven remaining children (four had died in childhood) and to manage the family business.** Brought up on the Psalms and Proverbs, Stein considered her mother a living example of the strong woman of Proverbs 31, who rises early to care for her family and trade in the marketplace. By her teenage years, Stein no longer practiced her Jewish faith and considered herself an atheist, but she continued to admire her mother’s attitude of total openness toward God.**

Like many before and since, Edith Stein came to Christianity through the study of philosophy. One of the first women to be admitted to university studies in Germany, she moved from the University of Breslau to the University of Gottingen in order to study with Edmund Husserl, the founder of phenomenology. Stein’s philosophical studies encouraged her openness to the possibility of transcendent realities, and her atheism began to crumble under the influence of her friends who had converted to Christianity.

During the summer of 1921, at the age of twenty-nine, Stein was vacationing with friends but found herself alone for the evening. She picked up, seemingly by chance, the autobiography of St. Teresa of Avila, founder of the Carmelite Order. She read it in one sitting, decided that the Catholic faith was true, and went out the next day to buy a missal and a copy of the Catholic catechism. She was baptized the following January, but her desire immediately to enter the Carmelites was delayed for a time. Her advisers saw that her conversion and claustration would be a double blow to her mother, and they knew the Church could benefit enormously from her contributions as a speaker and writer.

The rest is here:

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0001.html
 
Eden, Do you have any idea how many one-time Jewish converts to Catholicism I have worked with? The number of Jews who become Catholics is very miniscule and always has been, so naturally the number who return is even smaller.

But I have worked with about 7 and that is 7 more than most Jews meet in a lifetime. And I can tell you that they always have some sort of real reason for their former action. And its not always the pious reason the Catholic church would like to think.

Its not that I am singling out Stein; its just that I see some familiar holes in her story, holes that I have also seen in the stories of other Jews who converted (but who came back to Judaism.)
 
Eden, Do you have any idea how many one-time Jewish converts to Catholicism I have worked with? The number of Jews who become Catholics is very miniscule and always has been, so naturally the number who return is even smaller.

But I have worked with about 7 and that is 7 more than most Jews meet in a lifetime. And I can tell you that they always have some sort of real reason for their former action. And its not always the pious reason the Catholic church would like to think.

Its not that I am singling out Stein; its just that I see some familiar holes in her story, holes that I have also seen in the stories of other Jews who converted (but who came back to Judaism.)
Why would you see them as holes and not true faith in Christ? I mean not EVERY Jew who converted had something wrong with them. Is this what you are saying?
 
Eden, Do you have any idea how many one-time Jewish converts to Catholicism I have worked with? The number of Jews who become Catholics is very miniscule and always has been, so naturally the number who return is even smaller.

But I have worked with about 7 and that is 7 more than most Jews meet in a lifetime. And I can tell you that they always have some sort of real reason for their former action. And its not always the pious reason the Catholic church would like to think.

Its not that I am singling out Stein; its just that I see some familiar holes in her story, holes that I have also seen in the stories of other Jews who converted (but who came back to Judaism.)
Apparently, the number of Jewish to Catholic conversions are significantly high enough to cause alarm, or you would not be spending so much time here on a Catholic website attacking our faith and haranguing us about the supposed Catholic missionary work to Jews. You have said yourself you feel solid in your faith in Judaism, so why do you waste time defending it to us? Surely, what we discuss here is no threat to Judaism. Or is it… ? To put it bluntly, your time spent here suggests you do feel threatened by Catholicism.
 
He represents the sun? Lord have mercy…🤷 :whacky:
actually there is a lot of evidence that a lot of the bible references astronomy.

Although Jesus does share a lot of similarities to other gods, the Egyptian god Horus, and an old Pagan god. all of which performed miracles, born of a virgin, crucified, to rise from the dead. There are several other mythical gods from other religions who share the same story as Jesus, most of them written about thousands of years before Jesus.

But that’s not surprising, there’s a lot that Christianity took from Paganism. Why do you think people put trees in there house on Christmas? or why it’s on the 25th of December, when there’s more evidence that his birthday was in April? it all goes back to ancient Roman politics.
 
actually there is a lot of evidence that a lot of the bible references astronomy.

Although Jesus does share a lot of similarities to other gods, the Egyptian god Horus, and an old Pagan god. all of which performed miracles, born of a virgin, crucified, to rise from the dead. There are several other mythical gods from other religions who share the same story as Jesus, most of them written about thousands of years before Jesus.

But that’s not surprising, there’s a lot that Christianity took from Paganism. Why do you think people put trees in there house on Christmas? or why it’s on the 25th of December, when there’s more evidence that his birthday was in April? it all goes back to ancient Roman politics.
:yawn:

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911chap.asp

:sleep:
 
The writers of the gospels in the NT were not the apostles of Jesus, the early church attached their names to the respective gospels, but the writer of “Matthew” was not Matthew the tax collector…the writer of “John” was not John brother of James.

That is “tradition” set down decades after the gospels were written. Truth is we do not know who "penned’ the gospels…they didn’t sign them. The myth of who actually wrote the gospels was developed by the second century, but it is “sacred myth” not fact.
Thank you for this post. I don’t think this fact is well known and those that are aware of it rarely acknowledge it, yet the implications are vast.
 
Apparently, the number of Jewish to Catholic conversions are significantly high enough to cause alarm, or you would not be spending so much time here on a Catholic website attacking our faith and haranguing us about the supposed Catholic missionary work to Jews. You have said yourself you feel solid in your faith in Judaism, so why do you waste time defending it to us? Surely, what we discuss here is no threat to Judaism. Or is it… ? To put it bluntly, your time spent here suggests you do feel threatened by Catholicism.
Why do I stay here? I originally came because I had some questions about Catholic legends regarding Good Friday, etc. I stayed because I noticed some threads discussing efforts to convert Jews…and as a committed Jew and an active countermissionary, that piqued my interest.

I also have posted on Buddhist, Hindu, atheist and related forums…does that mean I’m not secure in my Judaism also?

Has it ever occurred to you that some people just like to debate and discuss religion and religious differences? Because I am very familiar with (traditional) Catholicism as well as (traditional) Judaism, I have found I can contribute to this forum (indeed, a number of posters have asked me to stay because they feel they have learned a lot about Judaism from me.)

Why do you question my reasons for being here, and not those of any other non-Catholic poster? Did it ever occur to you that, in addition to the reasons I gave, some people just enjoy debating?
 
Why do I stay here? I originally came because I had some questions about Catholic legends regarding Good Friday, etc. I stayed because I noticed some threads discussing efforts to convert Jews…and as a committed Jew and an active countermissionary, that piqued my interest.

I also have posted on Buddhist, Hindu, atheist and related forums…does that mean I’m not secure in my Judaism also?
Personally, that doesn’t sound interesting to me; I just hope you don’t ridicule their traditions and converts, as you have done to Catholics here. Is there any reason why you didn’t mention visiting Muslim websites?
Has it ever occurred to you that some people just like to debate and discuss religion and religious differences? Because I am very familiar with (traditional) Catholicism as well as (traditional) Judaism, I have found I can contribute to this forum (indeed, a number of posters have asked me to stay because they feel they have learned a lot about Judaism from me.)
After experiencing many of your posts in the past week, I’d have to take issue with your claim of being familiar with Catholicism.
Why do you question my reasons for being here, and not those of any other non-Catholic poster? Did it ever occur to you that, in addition to the reasons I gave, some people just enjoy debating?
I don’t question others because it’s obvious why Protestants, Muslims and Mormons are here. They are hoping to win converts. There are very few Jewish members who post as regularly as you do. It seems to me that you take pleasure in being antagonistic. I was hoping to clarify whether your intentions were for the thrill of antagonizing, insecurity in your own faith or to proselytize. But now you’ve clarified that the reason is choice A.
 
Hello again Sepharad.

I regret that either Catholics posted things too harshly or you took things personally. Either way it is regrettable.

Sepharad, I understand that you came seeking greater knowledge. Do you think that perhaps others assumed that you were here to issue a challenge to debate and wanted to “take the gloves off” because the name of this thread is “Did Jesus Exist?”

Sometimes when things are put into writing they are construed incorrectly. One doesn’t hear vocal inflections and facial expressions. I’ve only posted a handful of times here and I already got someone mad at me on another thread. Perhaps we didn’t understand what you were trying to get at with this post. On the other hand, do you understand that by starting this thread you seemed to be inviting exactly the kind of response that you received?
 
I regret that either Catholics posted things too harshly or you took things personally. Either way it is regrettable.
The mockery of old Catholic women and deriding us with fake apparitions didn’t help . 👍
 
Eden, I’ve visited Muslim websites also, but their writing style made it difficult to read on an ongoing basis (constant pbuh’s start to drive me batty after a few reading sessions, among other things!)

I have always been more than respectful on Buddhist and Hindu websites, do you know why? Because not once did any of them try to convert me. I cannot say the same for Muslim and Christian websites.

There is something about being constantly proselytized to that can make a person begin to feel very hostile toward the religion doing the proselytizing…which is perhaps why I had a 100% positive attitude toward the Catholics I have known and met offline–because none had ever tried to convert me.

I formerly reserved my negative feelings primarily for JWs, due to their constant proselytization efforts. Now I find I have to lump some Catholics into that same category, something I never felt I’d ever have to do.

I’ve had many Catholics on this forum try to proselytize me, and not always in the kindest of manners. This has caused me to scrutinize Catholic beliefs more closely, since in order to explain why I would never become a Catholic, I should understand their beliefs more than before. I was familiar with Catholicism due to my study of various faiths, and also because half my family is Catholic (one of my parents is a convert to Judaism and is also descended from Jews additionally).

I have to truthfully say, that my past knowledge of Catholicism, combined with what I have learned since being here, has actually strengthened my dislike for certain Catholic doctrines and practices. However, those doctrines and practices are fine for Gentile Catholics, but certainly not for me or any Jew.

I grew up in an area that was heavily Orthodox Jewish and heavily immigrant Catholic, and I saw a lot of practices and customs that truly (and I do mean, truly) reeked of idolatry on the part of the Catholics. I do not say this to offend anyone, but to show you one reason WHY I could never be a Catholic, even if I were not Jewish.

The busts of Jesus painted with blood dripping off his head, the garish statues with Mary and Jesus’ hearts exposed, the beliefs that the bread and wine become skin and blood of Jesus, the belief in bodies that do not corrupt, and so are preserved for people to gawk over and pray in front of, processions of saints statues with money being pinned to them…its just too…I can’t think of the word for it, but suffice it to say I always found this religion rather morbid in many ways…it never made me feel anything even remotely close to spiritual.

Well, there you have it. Those of you who have tried converting me, now know one of the reasons why you will always fail. Maybe if I were not from a religious Jewish background I would not feel this way, but I have met Gentiles who also feel this way, so maybe its not just me.

And if you will check my older posts, you will see that I was always very respectful to the Catholic religion, and even defended it in the face of some who did truly persecute…but I generally stopped doing it after the Catholic conversionary efforts and comments became more intense. I just could no longer justify defending a religion when they seemed so determined to take me away from my own faith.

And so, you wanted to know why; I told you why. Now some of you will interpret that as “persecution”, “hate”, etc. But you know, you really should not try to convert people to your religion UNLESS you are willing to have that faith dissected and analyzed by those you seek to convert.

And you have to accept that if you INITIATE conversionary efforts, the target of your proselytization may then explain to you WHY they don’t want to adopt your religion, and you might feel offended.

And in such cases its not “persecution” but explanation.
 
Well, we are coming from completely different perspectives and I don’t relate to your impressions of Catholicism, at all. What I also don’t get is the point of purposely returning over and over again to a site that you say made you feel increasingly agitated and hostile. It isn’t as though we are knocking on your door to recruit you. You made the choice to come here and continue to make that choice. It’s like objectionable TV programming, if you don’t like the content, turn the channel. If you don’t like Catholics commenting on why Catholicism is the true faith, find a like-minded site that will make you feel more comfortable. If you want to learn more about Catholicism, the CA library is useful for those purposes. There is no need to put yourself in the midst of “hostility” for the purposes of education or to be perpetually indignant at the thought of Catholics on a Catholic website promoting Catholicism. You came to my attention, originally, with your mean-spirited comments about elderly Catholic ladies, unapproved apparitions and the Miracle of Lanciano. If that’s what you call “education”, well, I’m not personally familiar with bullying and mockery as a learning style…
 
Why does Hashem keep saying people want to convert her? Where are these posts that say exactly this?🤷
 
Why does Hashem keep saying people want to convert her? Where are these posts that say exactly this?🤷
Please, stop playing dumb. Ever since I first came here, many Catholics have tried proselytizing me, telling me I had to join their religion, “believe in Jesus” and the like.

In fact YOU have said such things to me many times yourself!
 
Please, stop playing dumb. Ever since I first came here, many Catholics have tried proselytizing me, telling me I had to join their religion, “believe in Jesus” and the like.

In fact YOU have said such things to me many times yourself!
Seriously, why do you keep returning if it makes you so unhappy? 🤷
 
Please, stop playing dumb. Ever since I first came here, many Catholics have tried proselytizing me, telling me I had to join their religion, “believe in Jesus” and the like.

In fact YOU have said such things to me many times yourself!
Where on earth did I say HASHEM, JOIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Where?
 
Whenever someone tries to convert another to what they believe is the truth (whether that person is Catholic, Jew, Mormon, JW, or Muslim) that person is performing what they believe is a kindness. I can understand that you might have your own beliefs, but I don’t understand why you’d be offended by someone wanting to share,
 
Seriously, why do you keep returning if it makes you so unhappy? 🤷
Its not that it makes me unhappy; I have debated religious topics for 30 years with all kinds of people. This is nothing new to me.

But as for this forum, I stay to try to correct some of the very atrocious errors being stated about my people, my faith and our laws and customs. It appalls me how ignorant most Catholics seem to be of Jews, Judaism, and ancient Jewish customs and rituals. I’ve had some beg me not to leave, but to stay so they can consult me about these issues, and I’m glad to comply.

But the proselytization does get rather tiresome after a while.
 
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