Did Jesus Exist? (Pros and Cons)

[MagicKirk]

I don’t think I phrased that very well, but I hope that you get the gist.

 

[Cathdefender]

Perhaps some would find it “distasteful” that God would allow the Red Sea swallow up the Egyptian soldiers, causing the death of many. They might have been horrified by what they considered the many deaths. Others, perhaps you included, might say that it was a miracle and a sign of the power of God. (I would agree)
Eurcharistic miracles are no different. It might not be YOUR miracle of choice, but they are nonetheless miracles. Who are we to dismiss or belittle the power of God? Can you say with absolute certainty that you KNOW the evidence presented concerning the Eucharistic miracle is false and can be dismissed out of hand? Without such certainty, perhaps its not wise to ridicule or dismiss the possiblility.

But she didn’t just say she didn’t believe, she said it disgusted her and said other things about the Eucharist…

 

[Sepharad]

Perhaps some would find it “distasteful” that God would allow the Red Sea swallow up the Egyptian soldiers, causing the death of many. They might have been horrified by what they considered the many deaths. Others, perhaps you included, might say that it was a miracle and a sign of the power of God. (I would agree)
Eurcharistic miracles are no different. It might not be YOUR miracle of choice, but they are nonetheless miracles. Who are we to dismiss or belittle the power of God? Can you say with absolute certainty that you KNOW the evidence presented concerning the Eucharistic miracle is false and can be dismissed out of hand? Without such certainty, perhaps its not wise to ridicule or dismiss the possiblility.

What can I say? If Catholics seek to convert me here (as they have tried to do) by using such examples as the Lanciano thing, then they must be prepared for the fact that I may look at it objectively and critically, and report my own impressions.

Are you saying I am not entitled to explain why I could never accept anything like that as being truly from God?

 

[Cathdefender]

What can I say? If Catholics seek to convert me here (as they have tried to do) by using such examples as the Lanciano thing, then they must be prepared for the fact that I may look at it objectively and critically, and report my own impressions.

Are you saying I am not entitled to explain why I could never accept anything like that as being truly from God?

Again…Catholics have tried to convert me…oh brother…

 

[Sepharad]

Again…Catholics have tried to convert me…oh brother…

**Look at the title of some of your recent threads. ** For example, this most recent one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=247014

It is only your LATEST effort to go after Jews because we won’t believe in your religion.

Surely you can’t be this blind? Maybe now you can see why many people here assume you are “righteousone” with a new name?

Same modus operandi, same grammatical errors, same misguided hostility and zeal, same obsession with why Jews won’t convert, same “Deus vult” mentality. Plus, you showed up not long after “righteousone” was put on “account under review” and they stopped posting soon after that, but then you started.

At least I never tried to hide the fact that my handle used to be “Hashemechad”, as you tried to make people think, using calumny to do so:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=246258

My very *first *post under this new handle was to publicly inform people of the change.

 

[doctorenemy]

A mere thirty plus years after Jesus walked the earth, his followers were dying in the Colisseum by order of Nero, who was also burning them as human torches to light up his parties. No one then suggested that they were dying for someone who didn’t exist, since many people knew of Jesus and were alive when he died on Calvary. Otherwise, they would have been known as the people who followed a fictional man.

No, Christians were by definition followers of Jesus the Christ, the jewish man who died under Pontius Pilate and whose followers claimed had risen from the dead.

There is very little evidence for the existence of the Jesus of the bible or of Nero’s persecution of Christians. It is quite possible there was a man who did and said many of the things, but objectively, the Jesus seems to be mostly mythical.

 

[Ed_Rand]

There is very little evidence for the existence of the Jesus of the bible or of Nero’s persecution of Christians. It is quite possible there was a man who did and said many of the things, but objectively, the Jesus seems to be mostly mythical.

you’re so cute!!! so, when did Christians start becoming real people? when does the myth turn to fact for you?

 

[Cathdefender]

**Look at the title of some of your recent threads. ** For example, this most recent one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=247014

It is only your LATEST effort to go after Jews because we won’t believe in your religion.

Surely you can’t be this blind? Maybe now you can see why many people here assume you are “righteousone” with a new name?

Same modus operandi, same grammatical errors, same misguided hostility and zeal, same obsession with why Jews won’t convert, same “Deus vult” mentality. Plus, you showed up not long after “righteousone” was put on “account under review” and they stopped posting soon after that, but then you started.

At least I never tried to hide the fact that my handle used to be “Hashemechad”, as you tried to make people think, using calumny to do so:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=246258

My very *first *post under this new handle was to publicly inform people of the change.

Hashem, get over yourself…

 

[Lilyflower]

The writers of the gospels in the NT were not the apostles of Jesus, the early church attached their names to the respective gospels, but the writer of “Matthew” was not Matthew the tax collector…the writer of “John” was not John brother of James.

That is “tradition” set down decades after the gospels were written. Truth is we do not know who "penned’ the gospels…they didn’t sign them. The myth of who actually wrote the gospels was developed by the second century, but it is “sacred myth” not fact.

While I can see where you are coming from, the authors were also witnesses to the events or received intensive tuition. I have in mind the scribe of 1 Ptr and the author of 2 Ptr who we know was the Apostles disciple Clement whose other writings though not part of the New Testament are still considered by the Church to be part of Her canon.

I think that maybe you ought see the criteria the Church used when selecting texts for inclusion into the New Testament.

I think that maybe you might benefit from reading the other texts too.

 

[Lilyflower]

There is very little evidence for the existence of the Jesus of the bible or of Nero’s persecution of Christians. It is quite possible there was a man who did and said many of the things, but objectively, the Jesus seems to be mostly mythical.

So how do you explain away personal mystical encounters with the Risen Lord?

Now I suspect you will alude to some sort of mental abberation or delusional experience. I have had one such mystical encounter. I therefore know 100% that HE IS REAL! What others believe or disbelieve bothers me not! They are the ones who are delusional.

How do you explain away the fantastic power of the Holy Spirit which accompanies Him and the incredible force of peace and love which also accompanies such an encounter? They are not imaginary since it is a peace not known in this world. The love too is something so powerful once experienced, I no longer wanted to continue living in this earthly life. I wanted to go where He is.

That for me also explained why Almighty God appears distant from us. If His reality could be perceived by the senses, you would simply lose all will to live. You would yearn only death to be with Him, vacating this earthly life. That is not what God wants of us in the here and now.

Blessings and peace

 

[Ed_Rand]

That for me also explained why Almighty God appears distant from us. If His reality could be perceived by the senses, you would simply lose all will to live. You would yearn only death to be with Him, vacating this earthly life. That is not what God wants of us in the here and now.

This is perhaps the best point I’ve read on this whole forum yet. Thank you.

 

[Lilyflower]

This is perhaps the best point I’ve read on this whole forum yet. Thank you.

Thank you for your kind words.

That was my experience. I simply did not want the moment to end. I was packed, my hat and coat on and ready to go! I no longer wanted to live this life, not that I did not appreciate it or felt suicidal, far from it, I was happy, very very happy. In HIS presence the here and now paled into insignificance.

In His presence as perceived by the senses, the world has absolutely nothing to offer. Every human pleasure just fades away bceoming completely meaningless and sterile compared to that grand awesome love and peace that radiates from Him.

I also realised the here and now is but a passing phase. He is the ultimate reality. Our final destiny. Believe me it is one to look forward to.

I do not believe that anyone who experiences Him would turn Him away. It is my guess that every soul at death, if it experiences what I experienced, would definitely chose Christ. It is not even a choice as there is nothing else to compare it with. Nothing comes remotely close.

Blessings and peace