D
Della
Guest
Here is an article on the Hypostatic Union of God with man in the person of Jesus Christ that will explain it far better than I can.
- Status
H
hasantas
Guest
Is God just consist of will and intelect? How could divine intellect and will reconcile with a mortal soul in one personality? Divine will and intellect can react all souls. Do that make that soul God? If God should incarnate(that is no case for God but just supposing) God would inform that very clearly in many ways. That would not be hidden in a mystery.
God describe such very important issues very explicitly in scripture or taught a prophet. Is there any statement by Jesus in which it is said that Jesus was an incarnated God? No. But you will claim that through strained interpretations or by mysteries. Muslims follow on evidences but not some doctrines by philosophers.
P
PRmerger
Guest
You will have to explain, then, why the Jewish authorities wanted to execute him for blasphemy.
What did Jesus say that the Jews thought was blasphemous?
W
Wesrock
Guest
The divine is spirit. It is not made of parts. And I’m not speaking of a simple reaction or interaction of man with God, but about Jesus Himself having two wills in one person, the divine will, and the human will that freely submitted to it.
I’d say you have a different, strained approach to reading scriptures, and aren’t applying proper reading of the New Testament in context with the Old, and are missing what is implicit (if not grossly explicit) in the text because you’re not considering it in a first century Jewish context… Christ makes Himself the lawgiver, the Torah, more important than the Temple, master of the seas and storms, greater than the Sabbath, declares Himself the image of the Father, claimant to the divine name. He is Emmanuel, God With Us. The Scriptures declare Him God made flesh, and we preserve the Apostolic tradition. We are not a religion of the book.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Catholics, too, follow evidence.
C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
John 8:58 “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.’”
Matthew 11:27 “All things are delivered to me of my Father…”
Matthew 28:19 “Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
It is because Islam denies the Trinity that it must deny the divinity of Jesus.
H
hasantas
Guest
Because they did not understand Jesus. The answer is in John 10:34-35. I underlined.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10
H
hasantas
Guest
.
It is true that human will freely submitted to divine will. Ofcourse Jesus might have two wills and it is clear. Jesus always obeyed divine will. But that does not wean that the divine will incarnated into body of Jesus. There is no need for that.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6
Jesus changed some parts of Torah but carry out most part of it. It was used to for a prophet to bring something new. Jews were not good implementers of Torah. In a Hadith it is said that human was cerated in image of God. Tradition is important. But it should not supersede scripture. There may be many disadvantages in thoughts of people which do not come from a divine source. To claim that Holy Spirit taught doctrines is not acceptable. People have different ideas in that issues.
C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
People have different ideas but truth is the same everywhere.
The Holy Spirit is truth and does not deceive.
So how are we to know the truth for sure unless the Holy Spirit “taught doctrines”?
H
hasantas
Guest
Holy Spirit does not deceive but people may deceive in name of him.
The truth was revealed so long since. You can look at Torah and Bible and ofcourse Qur’an. Holy Spirit was used to come on the world many times before Jesus and after Jesus Holy Spirit came to Muhammad. Do we believe in philosophers or believe in prophets? I believe in Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.
There is no advantage in doctrines just they cause conflicts.
W
Wesrock
Guest
The Son is not the Father, though He is Co-eternal with Him. The Son is begotten by the Father, the perfect image of the Father, and sent by the Father.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not. 11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not. 12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. 15 (John bore witness to him, and cried, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known. (John 1)
I did not say Jesus changed the Torah. I said he presented himself as the Torah. The way to live, the way to God. People must believe in him. People must follow him. Nobody goes to the Father without going to him. People who see him see the Father. He is the way, the truth, the life. He is the gate. Those who are persecuted for his sake are blessed. These are not the sayings of an Old Testament Jewish prophet, and these are the types of statements that caused some to accuse him of blasphemy precisely because they understood what the implications of these statements were. These are radical statements, and ones Christians (at least) who hear them all the time probably don’t think twice on unless they choose to study it.
And I said other things as well. The Temple, the Sabbath, the Lawgiver…
P
PRmerger
Guest
You do realize, hasantas,that everything you’re professing above is…a doctrine, yeah?
H
hasantas
Guest
171- O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. An-Nisa(4)
45- [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah]. Ali-İmran(3)
“By starting out his gospel stating, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” John is introducing Jesus with a word or a term that both his Jewish and Gentile readers would have been familiar with. The Greek word translated “Word” in this passage is Logos, and it was common in both Greek philosophy and Jewish thought of that day. For example, in the Old Testament the “word” of God is often personified as an instrument for the execution of God’s will (Psalm 33:6; 107:20; 119:89; 147:15-18). So, for his Jewish readers, by introducing Jesus as the “Word,” John is in a sense pointing them back to the Old Testament where the Logos or “Word” of God is associated with the personification of God’s revelation. And in Greek philosophy, the term Logos was used to describe the intermediate agency by which God created material things and communicated with them. In the Greek worldview, the Logos was thought of as a bridge between the transcendent God and the material universe. Therefore, for his Greek readers the use of the term Logos would have likely brought forth the idea of a mediating principle between God and the world. From Got Questions.org”
Jesus is named as “word of God”. The word became flesh. When God wish something to happen God just says be and it is. God wished Jesus to be and God said be"word" and it is"word became flesh".
Jesus was the way to God. That does not mean there is no other way to God. What about Moses and other prophets even you do not accept Muhammad?
And also if Jesus is the way to God that means God is distinct from Jesus. God is not the way to God(himself). If you say the human nature is the way to God then what required for divine nature?
H
hasantas
Guest
If we call it doctrine… Yeah. But it is from Qur’an(word of God) and Bible(writings from revelation). Not from philosophers.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Ah, so I think you should retract this:
Because, it turns out, you actually do espouse doctrines.
H
hasantas
Guest
Jesus was a living revelation. His body and life was living revelation. He was supported with Holy Spirit. Jesus was the way to God(not the unique way!) People must follow Him that is very true. I agree most of these.
But do not forget that Jewish people were used to persecute and kill prophets and accused them. Jewish people did not understant or misunderstant or Jesus blame them because they did not apply Torah exactly.
A
AgnosticBoy
Guest
This might be a long shot but I don’t believe that Jesus being God entails that he be perfect. Each person in the Godhead may have different functions/purposes, so I don’t see why each can’t have different abilities, with the Father being the most powerful. In other words, perhaps only the Father is perfect and “good”.
P
PRmerger
Guest
If Jesus being God means that he isn’t perfect, then Jesus isn’t God.
That’s just plain logic.
H
hasantas
Guest
All people are not philosophers. Philophical knowledge is not superior on scripture. I can claim many philosophical asserts such that God became angel or angel became God or man first became angel and later became God or God transformed into a tree or a dove became God etc etc …
But there is a problem with those claims. Non of these result from a valid knowledge just conjectures.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Yes, you are correct.
But in saying the above, which is a philosophical statement, you are promoting your philosophy, right?
Also, correct here.
This, too, is a philosophical truth.
Sure, and then when you provide arguments which support your position, then all of us discuss and digest what’s being asserted.
And we either reject your philosophical POV, or change our mind and accept it.
- Status