Did Jesus have siblings?

[hellopeople]

Back to the question of Jesus’ siblings. If I were Joseph, a righteous Jew, would I compete with the Holy Spirit in fathering Mary’s children other than Jesus? Would I regard someone who has just been espoused to the Holy Spirit, just an ordinary woman thereafter, to satisfy my earthly desires with (even if it is a Jewish thing to do to procreate), she whom God favored as the mother of His son? I would shudder even just with the thought, that here is this woman, full of God’s grace, and I would dare touch her! But with the arguments propounded in this thread, as well as in most of their oral teachings, it seems acceptable to our earthly protestant brothers, to father someone whose spouse just turned his back!

Earthly desire? Is it a sinful and earthly desire to procreate with your wife?

 

[hellopeople]

And, as I said earlier, * 2 Corinthians 6:14* is very clear in instructing us that we are not to associate with non-believers. Should we disobey apostalic teaching?

Oh, and let me clarify that there is a difference between bringing the faith to someone who has never been exposed to the faith for the purpose of spreading the faith and associating with someone who knows the faith and/or has been exposed to the faith but refuses to accept it. There is nothing wrong with doing the former but there is something wrong with doing the latter.

So I shouldn’t associate with a non believer, but I can be married to one?

1 Cor. 7:10 But to the married I give instructions, *not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest *I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are *holy. 15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

 

[hellopeople]

Not to yoke, means not to bind oneself. That is a wide spectrum from marriage to friendship. Additionally, if someone does not BELIEVE in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, if someone does not BELIEVE in the authority of the priest to forgive sins, etc.; how can you refer to them as a “BELIEVER”? You can’t! They are non-BELIEVERS.

What if your kids were non believers? Would you kick them out and refuse to associate with them?

 

[Janet1983]

Not to yoke, means not to bind oneself. That is a wide spectrum from marriage to friendship. Additionally, if someone does not BELIEVE in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, if someone does not BELIEVE in the authority of the priest to forgive sins, etc.; how can you refer to them as a “BELIEVER”? You can’t! They are non-BELIEVERS.

I do not believe these things and I am still a believer… You are a believer too, even though you do not believe things I do believe.

 

[inkaneer]

Not to yoke, means not to bind oneself. That is a wide spectrum from marriage to friendship. Additionally, if someone does not BELIEVE in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, if someone does not BELIEVE in the authority of the priest to forgive sins, etc.; how can you refer to them as a “BELIEVER”? You can’t! They are non-BELIEVERS.

Ligthen up pal and get in step with the church’s teaching. Protestants may not believe in the real presence but they do believe in the salvation work of Jesus . As such they possess a share of the deposit of faith. The church calls them our “separated brethren” because they are christian and therefore are BELIEVERS . Pagans, atheists and Agnostics on the other hand are a different matter.

 

[inkaneer]

Earthly desire? Is it a sinful and earthly desire to procreate with your wife?

If your wife was dedicated to God yes it would be and it could be mortal too. Joseph, as a righteous Jew, knew the story of the men who touched the the Arc of the Covenant and what befell them. Mary was the Arc of the New Covenant. I doubt if the thought even crossed his mind.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Ligthen up pal and get in step with the church’s teaching. Protestants may not believe in the real presence but they do believe in the salvation work of Jesus . As such they possess a share of the deposit of faith. The church calls them our “separated brethren” because they are christian and therefore are BELIEVERS . Pagans, atheists and Agnostics on the other hand are a different matter.

I think that you need to get in step with Church Teaching …

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

Source.
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[Sir_Knight]

I do not believe these things and I am still a believer… You are a believer too, even though you do not believe things I do believe.

What kind of twisted logic is this? How can someone who does NOT believe fundamental church teachings be considered a “believer”. The definition of a believer is someone who believes – not some of it but all of it.

 

[Felix_Il_Gatto]

Mathew 13:55 states:

55"Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?

Knowing that the church has stated that Mary was a perpetual virgin, where do these brothers come into place?

No. The Blessed Mother is Ever-Virgin. She is a fountain sealed up.
The brothers and sisters of Our Lord are explained in the Protoevangelium of James (an apocryphal gospel dating at least to the second century) as the children of Saint Joseph from a previous marriage.
Saint Jerome says that these “brothers and sisters” (adelphoi… I believe that’s the word in Greek) were actually cousins or some other type of close relative, as the same word was used in Greek at that time for both close relatives and siblings.

 

[Sir_Knight]

What if your kids were non believers? Would you kick them out and refuse to associate with them?

Scripture tells us not to be joined with those who do not believe. It does not say to unjoin oneself from those that do not believe. As parents, we are joined to our children at the time of birth. They are brought into the faith (baptized) based on OUR belief. We are thus joined with believers. If, they later become unbelievers, 2 Corinthians 6:14 does not cover that because we are already joined with them.

 

[Sir_Knight]

So I shouldn’t associate with a non believer, but I can be married to one?

1 Cor. 7:10 But to the married I give instructions, *not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest *I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are *holy. 15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

If you read the entire thing, this passage is instructions to the the early Christians who BECAME believers but their spouses did not become believers.

As I said in the previous post, since they became joined with each other PRIOR to the issue of belief and non-belief became an issue, they are instructed NOT to unjoin. But if they were not originally joined already, then they shouldn’t join.

 

[Sir_Knight]

To clarify all of this with an example. A man and woman are non-believers and get married. Wife converts to being a Catholic. Since she is already joined, she is instructed not to unjoin because the joining happened before they differed in belief.

Another example, a woman is a believer, she is not to join herself with a non-believer.

 

[kepha1]

Back to the question of Jesus’ siblings. If I were Joseph, a righteous Jew, would I compete with the Holy Spirit in fathering Mary’s children other than Jesus? Would I regard someone who has just been espoused to the Holy Spirit, just an ordinary woman thereafter, to satisfy my earthly desires with (even if it is a Jewish thing to do to procreate), she whom God favored as the mother of His son? I would shudder even just with the thought, that here is this woman, full of God’s grace, and I would dare touch her! But with the arguments propounded in this thread, as well as in most of their oral teachings, it seems acceptable to our earthly protestant brothers, to father someone whose spouse just turned his back!

Good point, rtibs. If I were God, would I allow any other person other than Me to father children other than My Son? How many evangelical cults that spout this venom no longer believe in the divinity of Christ? There is a growing number but I wish I had a list. If Mary had other children then what does that say about the sinlessness of Jesus humanity??? Then that comes into question as well. Would Jesus’ “brothers” be half sinless or half full of grace?

Jesus having siblings is a doctrine of demons.

 

[NHInsider]

To clarify all of this with an example. A man and woman are non-believers and get married. Wife converts to being a Catholic. Since she is already joined, she is instructed not to unjoin because the joining happened before they differed in belief.

Another example, a woman is a believer, she is not to join herself with a non-believer.

I think this thread has gone way off-topic.

And I do think, Sir Knight, that you are trying to be “more catholic than the Pope.”

 

[ConnieMelton]

I disagree with your interpretation of 2 Cor 6:14. First, No where does it say we are not to associate with non-believers. Second, the term ‘non-believers’ does not mean non- Catholics. It means pagans.

2 Cor 6:14 says, in the following translations:

“Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness?” [Douay Rheims]

“Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” [RSV]

“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” [KJV]

Nothing there about associating with them but more to the point about not marrying them.

I so disagree with “not associating with non-believers”. By associating with them we can show them in our words and deeds that our believing has made us a better person. We need to witness to these people. I know there are some people who get angry if you just bring up God and Religion. I have to think these people are bitter over something in their lives. Maybe it is the age old question “Why do bad things happen to good people?” That question alone keeps so many people away from God. The explanation of we have not suffered anything near what Christ suffered is somewhat of an answer to believers, but atill not a complete answer. What about the little children abused, raped, murdered? It’s a hard question. I still think by your words and deeds you can touch someone who has rejected God and Religion. Most importantly, PRAY FOR THEM!!!

 

[Sir_Knight]

I think this thread has gone way off-topic.

And I do think, Sir Knight, that you are trying to be “more catholic than the Pope.”

Even though you meant that as a put-down, I’ll take it as a compliment because one can never be too Catholic.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I so disagree with “not associating with non-believers”.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit has revealed the faith better to you than to those that wrote the sacred scriptures? What other Apostalic instructions do you disagree with?

 

[inkaneer]

I think that you need to get in step with Church Teaching …

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

Source.
​

No doubt but you were not talking abut sharing communion you were speaking of associating with non believers. Your exact words were:

“Our faith also teaches us that we are to distance and separate ourselves from those who do not embrace the teachings of our Church (see 2 Corinthians 6:14).” [Sir Knight post #266]

Then in post #288 you wrote this:

“Not to yoke, means not to bind oneself. That is a wide spectrum from marriage to friendship. Additionally, if someone does not BELIEVE in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, if someone does not BELIEVE in the authority of the priest to forgive sins, etc.; how can you refer to them as a “BELIEVER”? You can’t! They are non-BELIEVERS.” [Sir Knight post #288]

Now you are changinging it from mere association to partaking of communion together. While the latter is not to be done the former has no restriction.

 

[Sir_Knight]

If we can’t share our Lord with someone, what is the point of sharing anything else?

 

[MyCatholicHeart]

I’m glad not every Catholic feels as you seem to. If it wasn’t for a coworker of mine “associating” with me, an unbaptized, completely unchurched nonbeliever, I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to become a believer. In just over a week, I will be baptized, receive first eucharist, and be comfirmed. All because one believer shared the Truth with one nonbeliever. I will be forever grateful for the love and friendship this person showed me, but most of all my soul will be forever grateful that they shared the truth of God’s love for me. That means everything to me, I feel like I got my life handed back to me, and soon to be washed clean at that! What gift could be better than that?