B
Bill_Pick
Guest
WHAT JESUS AND MARY DO YOU LOVE NOT THE ONE FROM THE BIBLE,DOES YOU god SAY IT IS OK TO TELL A LIE JUST ASKING, WHY WAS JESUS NOT 100%MAN AND GOD
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I understand that the Catholics believe, sorry I don’t share this believe with them, that Jesus was a fully god (or 100% god) and a fully man (or 100% man) at the one and the same moment; kindly correct me if I am wrong.
A fully god has to be Creator of this Universe and beyond it if there exists any. He is a creator of all the physical, moral and spiritual realms; yet the creator is never one within them, as that would be paradoxical.
As a man or above that a fully man; Jesus has to be in the image of god exhibiting full powers/faculties that one could think of a man to have. That power requires of Jesus, that he should be able to regenerate at least (if he did not ever create anything). If he is unable to regenerate then he must be having some deficiency/defect (maybe some impotency, please excuse me). Since Jesus is fully man, so we understand from the above, that he must regenerate in any case. For regeneration he must had got married or otherwise he would be considered with some deficiency/defect (may be impotency, if it is correct to say).
Since Catholics believe that he is in full image of god, and I agree on that; this deficiency/defect/demerit/impotency would therefore reflect or impair his full god status logically. It would mean in other words that as god also he was incapable of creating nothing; not a good proposition.
I think to avoid this impairing reflection in the capacity of god, Jesus must logically marry a woman, rather many women, no harm (since he was a Jew who have a tradition of many marriages like David from his lineage) as that would prove his potency or regeneration capacity forthwith.
I don’t see any blemish if Jesus would have got married with Mary Magdalene, as some people in the West project, or Jesus had married Marian in Kashmir and has off-springs also from them. I won’t object and I keep it open. Jesus could marry more in Kashmir, Afghanistan (as some people call themselves Issa Khail, children of Jesus ) or elsewhere in India (not strange at all as he was from the line of David) as per the Jewish tradition.
Those Kashmiris or in Afghanis/Pukhtuns who say that they are from his pedigree and are his children actually come here to the rescue of the Catholics in my opinion; and this news should be an occasion for merry making like Christmas and not of rejection.
This way at least Jesus is proved a fully man; sorry if he was not god; except that like Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Socrates and Zoroaster he was fully illuminated with the light of God Allah Parmesher Ahura-Mazda YHWH and this way he was **like many other Messengers one with God Allah **(as per the Muslim tradition Messengers are numbering 12500000 approximately in the whole world).
This is the only sense in which sometimes the Messengers tell this phenomenon to their followers that they are one with God.
No disrespect is intended to any person, religion, faith or creed; we are discussing things in search of truth and Truth Jesus and Mary loved so much.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
A
Ag_not
Guest
I read this three times. I still cant decide if I should be offended at the dissrespect you show catholics and their beliefs or laugh at the depth of your appalling ignorance.
J
Jay53
Guest
I voted for the laughingI read this three times. I still cant decide if I should be offended at the dissrespect you show catholics and their beliefs or laugh at the depth of your appalling ignorance.
and shaking my head in disbelief!!!But, I still want to know, what is up with this statement:
This is now the second time (that I’ve read) that it has been insinuated that a man has to be married or have children to be considered fully man. What is up with that? Are there people who actually believe that?!?
J
John7
Guest
Jesus is already married.
Jesus’ spouse is the Church/ekklesia.
Ephesians 5:31-32
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother,
and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning
Christ and the church.
E
Eucharisted
Guest
Hmm…some Catholics are a bit anti-Islamic in this thread. That is baaaad. 
But, as to the question of whether Jesus married and had children, I’m going to give an answer that will seem complex at first, but, if you think it over, it’ll become much clearer.
In regards to corporal marriage - that is, a man and a woman marrying each other - Jesus did not marry. He was born, lived, died, rose, and ascented into heaven a virgin. His virginity is a requirment, because He is God and Man. This is where the complex theology comes in.
In the Old Testament, God had made a Covenant with Isreal. This Covenant was always viewed by the Israelities as a marriage between a husband (God) and a wife (Israel). God used this marital image many times when He spoke to Israel: when He said He was a jealous God, He meant He demanded absolute allegience from Israel, just as a wife is with her husband; when He said Israel had committed adultery, He meant Israel had turned from God to false gods and idols; when He spoke to the prophets, He used very strong terms to describe His love for Israel, such as in the Song of Songs when He described Israel’s beautiful body.
Over time, Israel became more and more unfaithful, and God warned that if Israel did not return to Him, He would form a new people; but in the same breath He also stated He would never leave Israel and that in the end Israel would belong to Him again and forever. The Jews took this warning seriously; they believed that when the Messiah arrived, he would restore Israel to God, actualize the Covenant between God and Israel, and drive away all unfaithfulness from the people. This was the hope of Judaism.
God knew the Jews’ hope, and He decreed to make it real in a way far beyond Israel could ever imagine, thus showing her His unfathomable mercy. He took on human flesh, joining humanity to His Divinity, thus - in virtue of the union of God and mankind - fulfilling every hope of Judaism, ultimately in the actualization of the Covenant. In Jesus Christ, God and man had become totally united in marriage; the universalization of Israel, the actuality of her marriage to God, the coming of the Messiah, and the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel had been accomplished simply by God becoming incarnate, that is, assuming human flesh (otherwise known aa the Incarnation). But Jesus, as Man, was not simply a male human being, but was actually the totality of the whole human race, that is to say, as Man He was Adam, the new Adam, head of the human race and first man to be resurrected to glory (there is a difference between people being risen and people rising to glory, as is shown in the Old Testament; the Israelities knew the difference between a prophet bringing man back from the dead and God raising the dead to new life, to glory and eternal life). But Jesus, as Man, was not like Adam; the first Adam was born from dust, but Jesus came from heaven; the first Adam was only a man, but Jesus was a spiritual man, that is, He was a divinized man, God and man in union, and in light of this union His manhood was spiritualized, diviinized, glorified (i.e., resurrected to glory).
Now, as I’m sure you’re aware, every couple must have children. So if Jesus was the marriage of God and man, where were His children? The Christians were His children. Mary - or Marian as some like to call her - was the Mother of God. But Jesus made her more than this at the foot of the cross. He gave her to His disciples through the Apostle John, making her their Mother, the Mother of all believers and of all the living. Because of this, Mary became the new Eve (Eve means “mother of the living”). And just as Adam was married to Eve, so too the new Adam is married to the new Eve. However, their marriage is not corporal, but spiritual. If it was corporal, they would be guilty of incest. But this spiritual marital union began, in a way beyond our understanding, at the Incarnation, when Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb, and the marriage was consummated on the Cross; just as sexual relations consummates a corporal marriage and begets life, so too the greatest means of unification of man and God and of restoring the divine life in souls, which man had lost because of original sin - Jesus’ death on the Cross - consummated the spiritual marriage. This is why Jesus’ death is called His hour of glory or “the wedding of the Lamb”, because on the cross He had taken the Church (of whom Mary is a figure and sign) in marriage and given Himself to her - just as a man gives himself to his wife in bed - and she had bore Him Christians - just as a woman bears her man children. And because of the death of Jesus, His followers - including His Mother Mary - were no longer Jews but were Christians, and He Himself was no longer a Jew but the Father of the Church. And Mary was the Mother of the Church, as His new Eve.
In conclusion, did Jesus marry and have children? Yes, in a spirutal way, a spiritual way which could only be possible if He is truly God and Man.
The answer I gave, though, I fear is not adequent. I apologize for this. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I will be happy to answer them for you.
But, as to the question of whether Jesus married and had children, I’m going to give an answer that will seem complex at first, but, if you think it over, it’ll become much clearer.
In regards to corporal marriage - that is, a man and a woman marrying each other - Jesus did not marry. He was born, lived, died, rose, and ascented into heaven a virgin. His virginity is a requirment, because He is God and Man. This is where the complex theology comes in.
In the Old Testament, God had made a Covenant with Isreal. This Covenant was always viewed by the Israelities as a marriage between a husband (God) and a wife (Israel). God used this marital image many times when He spoke to Israel: when He said He was a jealous God, He meant He demanded absolute allegience from Israel, just as a wife is with her husband; when He said Israel had committed adultery, He meant Israel had turned from God to false gods and idols; when He spoke to the prophets, He used very strong terms to describe His love for Israel, such as in the Song of Songs when He described Israel’s beautiful body.
Over time, Israel became more and more unfaithful, and God warned that if Israel did not return to Him, He would form a new people; but in the same breath He also stated He would never leave Israel and that in the end Israel would belong to Him again and forever. The Jews took this warning seriously; they believed that when the Messiah arrived, he would restore Israel to God, actualize the Covenant between God and Israel, and drive away all unfaithfulness from the people. This was the hope of Judaism.
God knew the Jews’ hope, and He decreed to make it real in a way far beyond Israel could ever imagine, thus showing her His unfathomable mercy. He took on human flesh, joining humanity to His Divinity, thus - in virtue of the union of God and mankind - fulfilling every hope of Judaism, ultimately in the actualization of the Covenant. In Jesus Christ, God and man had become totally united in marriage; the universalization of Israel, the actuality of her marriage to God, the coming of the Messiah, and the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel had been accomplished simply by God becoming incarnate, that is, assuming human flesh (otherwise known aa the Incarnation). But Jesus, as Man, was not simply a male human being, but was actually the totality of the whole human race, that is to say, as Man He was Adam, the new Adam, head of the human race and first man to be resurrected to glory (there is a difference between people being risen and people rising to glory, as is shown in the Old Testament; the Israelities knew the difference between a prophet bringing man back from the dead and God raising the dead to new life, to glory and eternal life). But Jesus, as Man, was not like Adam; the first Adam was born from dust, but Jesus came from heaven; the first Adam was only a man, but Jesus was a spiritual man, that is, He was a divinized man, God and man in union, and in light of this union His manhood was spiritualized, diviinized, glorified (i.e., resurrected to glory).
Now, as I’m sure you’re aware, every couple must have children. So if Jesus was the marriage of God and man, where were His children? The Christians were His children. Mary - or Marian as some like to call her - was the Mother of God. But Jesus made her more than this at the foot of the cross. He gave her to His disciples through the Apostle John, making her their Mother, the Mother of all believers and of all the living. Because of this, Mary became the new Eve (Eve means “mother of the living”). And just as Adam was married to Eve, so too the new Adam is married to the new Eve. However, their marriage is not corporal, but spiritual. If it was corporal, they would be guilty of incest. But this spiritual marital union began, in a way beyond our understanding, at the Incarnation, when Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb, and the marriage was consummated on the Cross; just as sexual relations consummates a corporal marriage and begets life, so too the greatest means of unification of man and God and of restoring the divine life in souls, which man had lost because of original sin - Jesus’ death on the Cross - consummated the spiritual marriage. This is why Jesus’ death is called His hour of glory or “the wedding of the Lamb”, because on the cross He had taken the Church (of whom Mary is a figure and sign) in marriage and given Himself to her - just as a man gives himself to his wife in bed - and she had bore Him Christians - just as a woman bears her man children. And because of the death of Jesus, His followers - including His Mother Mary - were no longer Jews but were Christians, and He Himself was no longer a Jew but the Father of the Church. And Mary was the Mother of the Church, as His new Eve.
In conclusion, did Jesus marry and have children? Yes, in a spirutal way, a spiritual way which could only be possible if He is truly God and Man.
The answer I gave, though, I fear is not adequent. I apologize for this. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I will be happy to answer them for you.
O
OneTrueCathApos
Guest
Why would it be bad if some Catholics here are anti-Islamic? Islam means to submit. It is a violent religion if you can even call it a religion. I cannot sugar coat the killing of innocent people, beheadings and such evil things the Muslims do in the name of their God. I don’t care if they are the extremists or not, it is still Islam and I myself do not like it.Hmm…some Catholics are a bit anti-Islamic in this thread. That is baaaad.
But, as to the question of whether Jesus married and had children, I’m going to give an answer that will seem complex at first, but, if you think it over, it’ll become much clearer.
In regards to corporal marriage - that is, a man and a woman marrying each other - Jesus did not marry. He was born, lived, died, rose, and ascented into heaven a virgin. His virginity is a requirment, because He is God and Man. This is where the complex theology comes in.
In the Old Testament, God had made a Covenant with Isreal. This Covenant was always viewed by the Israelities as a marriage between a husband (God) and a wife (Israel). God used this marital image many times when He spoke to Israel: when He said He was a jealous God, He meant He demanded absolute allegience from Israel, just as a wife is with her husband; when He said Israel had committed adultery, He meant Israel had turned from God to false gods and idols; when He spoke to the prophets, He used very strong terms to describe His love for Israel, such as in the Song of Songs when He described Israel’s beautiful body.
Over time, Israel became more and more unfaithful, and God warned that if Israel did not return to Him, He would form a new people; but in the same breath He also stated He would never leave Israel and that in the end Israel would belong to Him again and forever. The Jews took this warning seriously; they believed that when the Messiah arrived, he would restore Israel to God, actualize the Covenant between God and Israel, and drive away all unfaithfulness from the people. This was the hope of Judaism.
God knew the Jews’ hope, and He decreed to make it real in a way far beyond Israel could ever imagine, thus showing her His unfathomable mercy. He took on human flesh, joining humanity to His Divinity, thus - in virtue of the union of God and mankind - fulfilling every hope of Judaism, ultimately in the actualization of the Covenant. In Jesus Christ, God and man had become totally united in marriage; the universalization of Israel, the actuality of her marriage to God, the coming of the Messiah, and the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel had been accomplished simply by God becoming incarnate, that is, assuming human flesh (otherwise known aa the Incarnation). But Jesus, as Man, was not simply a male human being, but was actually the totality of the whole human race, that is to say, as Man He was Adam, the new Adam, head of the human race and first man to be resurrected to glory (there is a difference between people being risen and people rising to glory, as is shown in the Old Testament; the Israelities knew the difference between a prophet bringing man back from the dead and God raising the dead to new life, to glory and eternal life). But Jesus, as Man, was not like Adam; the first Adam was born from dust, but Jesus came from heaven; the first Adam was only a man, but Jesus was a spiritual man, that is, He was a divinized man, God and man in union, and in light of this union His manhood was spiritualized, diviinized, glorified (i.e., resurrected to glory).
Now, as I’m sure you’re aware, every couple must have children. So if Jesus was the marriage of God and man, where were His children? The Christians were His children. Mary - or Marian as some like to call her - was the Mother of God. But Jesus made her more than this at the foot of the cross. He gave her to His disciples through the Apostle John, making her their Mother, the Mother of all believers and of all the living. Because of this, Mary became the new Eve (Eve means “mother of the living”). And just as Adam was married to Eve, so too the new Adam is married to the new Eve. However, their marriage is not corporal, but spiritual. If it was corporal, they would be guilty of incest. But this spiritual marital union began, in a way beyond our understanding, at the Incarnation, when Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb, and the marriage was consummated on the Cross; just as sexual relations consummates a corporal marriage and begets life, so too the greatest means of unification of man and God and of restoring the divine life in souls, which man had lost because of original sin - Jesus’ death on the Cross - consummated the spiritual marriage. This is why Jesus’ death is called His hour of glory or “the wedding of the Lamb”, because on the cross He had taken the Church (of whom Mary is a figure and sign) in marriage and given Himself to her - just as a man gives himself to his wife in bed - and she had bore Him Christians - just as a woman bears her man children. And because of the death of Jesus, His followers - including His Mother Mary - were no longer Jews but were Christians, and He Himself was no longer a Jew but the Father of the Church. And Mary was the Mother of the Church, as His new Eve.
In conclusion, did Jesus marry and have children? Yes, in a spirutal way, a spiritual way which could only be possible if He is truly God and Man.
The answer I gave, though, I fear is not adequent. I apologize for this. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I will be happy to answer them for you.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Except for the mythical marriage of which the Christians talk about sometimes; the whole world knows what a marriage is, in my opinion.
Our focus of discussion is this marriage between a man and a woman not the mythical one, please don’t mind.
I love Jesus and Mary
Thanks
C
cathopologist
Guest
paarsurrey, you refuse to provide credible answers in my “Ahmadi’s, where is Jesus buried” thread and here you are again, with your ad hominem on your favourite subject.
Goodness, you behave just like a bot. I have a request: Please stop spamming the forums with your “The spread of Islam in this country and that country” threads. Its irritating.
Goodness, you behave just like a bot. I have a request: Please stop spamming the forums with your “The spread of Islam in this country and that country” threads. Its irritating.
P
Pier
Guest
Jesus did address the subject. This is from Luke 9:58:
Jesus said to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Here also, from Matthew 8:20:
And Jesus saith to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests: but the son of man hath not where to lay his head.
God bless.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
HiJesus did address the subject. This is from Luke 9:58:
Jesus said to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Here also, from Matthew 8:20:
And Jesus saith to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests: but the son of man hath not where to lay his head.
God bless.
There is no mention of Jesus not marrying a woman or not having children in the verses.
In my opinion your interpretition is wrong; it is as mythical as Jesus dieing a cursed death on Cross.
May God Allah bless you !
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
P
peary
Guest
We would have heard about it long before now!
C
cathopologist
Guest
We have! The Dossiers Secrets and the Priory of Sion ring a bell?
S
swariffin
Guest
I hope your religion also allow you to think freely and objectively and logically, not just a one-sided prejudice kind of research which dismiss things against you and promote things “supporting” you even it is only a slight chance of support.
S
swariffin
Guest
Dear brother, I wonder why the Da Vinci code was written by Dan Brown instead of Paarsurrey?We have! The Dossiers Secrets and the Priory of Sion ring a bell?
S
swariffin
Guest
So if a man who does not marry is half animal??? What kind of religion you have? You have not answered me. If I cut your torpedo, you would become half animal? You really have a sick definition of fully human, brother. If you have an “incapable” man in your society, then he is no longer human as per your definition.
If you read the correct bible, you will see that Jesus never married and had no children.
O
OneTrueCathApos
Guest
There is no mention of Jesus, your Messiah, Son of God, King of Kings, marrying and having children because He didn’t. Jesus Christ is Divine. He came for one reason and one reason only. To save you Paarsurrey from your sins, the one’s that make you commit Blasphemy on these forums, and the ones you have already committed and continue to commit. There is no God but one God with the Son, Jesus Christ.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Do you mean that Jesus was an “incapable” man, as we are discussing about Jesus here only ? I don’t think so. He was just a normal man; and no Son of God or God, in my opinion.
That is why I say that let Jesus remain a man at least; and God he never was in my opinion.
I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
P
peary
Guest
If he did it would have emphatically been stated in the Scriptures and through Church tradition. It is not and has never been stated or come down as historical.
O
OneTrueCathApos
Guest
There are many things muslims commit that are not in the Quran.
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