Did Jesus marry and had children?

[pismopal]

Would St Peter, Paul and all the others who were martyred, have doomed themselves to horrible deaths for a fraud? Christ was not a fraud, as evidenced by the fact that eyewitnesses to his life and death and resurrection, died knowing that He was exactly who He said He was.

 

[dianaiad]

Would St Peter, Paul and all the others who were martyred, have doomed themselves to horrible deaths for a fraud? Christ was not a fraud, as evidenced by the fact that eyewitnesses to his life and death and resurrection, died knowing that He was exactly who He said He was.

Why would His having been married make Him a fraud? There is nothing in the NT, quoting Him, that mentions HIS marriage one way or the other.

Diana, who feels compelled to repeat this: I don’t know whether He was married or not. It doesn’t matter.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I’m not talking about NOW.

 

[dianaiad]

Would St Peter, Paul and all the others who were martyred, have doomed themselves to horrible deaths for a fraud? Christ was not a fraud, as evidenced by the fact that eyewitnesses to his life and death and resurrection, died knowing that He was exactly who He said He was.

How would His being married change Who He was…is?

The point is, the scriptures simply do not address the issue. Jesus did not claim to be a single man. He did not claim to be a married man.

Therefore, how would His being married have made Him a ‘fraud?’

It would simply have made Him…married. Which, by the way, is by no means a sin.

 

[pismopal]

Christ’s ministry was to mankind…not as a hubby. His life was documented very well considering the time and there is absolutely no evidence or serious suggestion that he was married. Either He was the Son…sent to redeem us, not to marry a woman, or He was a fraud.( He was not a fraud)
I cannot believe the question…“what difference does it make?”

 

[dianaiad]

Christ’s ministry was to mankind…not as a hubby. His life was documented very well considering the time and there is absolutely no evidence or serious suggestion that he was married. Either He was the Son…sent to redeem us, not to marry a woman, or He was a fraud.( He was not a fraud)
I cannot believe the question…“what difference does it make?”

What about that question is unbelievable?

I mean, really, what difference WOULD it make? You tell me that His life was documented 'very well considering the time…"
and perhaps it was. However, that doesn’t make it very well documented. For instance, we have NO documentation of His life between the time He was 12 and the time He began His ministry, when He was thirty. That’s eighteen years of mystery to fill in.

If He lived the normal life of a Jewish carpenter (which He was…) His parents would have found him a bride when He was 18. Either they did, or they did not. We don’t know. by the way, whatever happened to Joseph? The assumption is that he died, because there is no mention of him. Jesus would not have had to ask someone else to take care of her if Joseph where around, but…what happened to him? When did he die? How? Was he able to stick around very long after Jesus turned twelve?

As you can see, ‘very well documented according to the time’ doesn’t mean ‘very well documented,’ at all.

Did He spend all His time ministering for His last three years? Well, yes. What was He doing before that? There is no record of that.

It happens more often than we like that married couples are separated because one of the spouses has to go somewhere, or do something, for an extended period of time. We see that in the military now.

My great grandfather, for instance, was a missionary in the south seas for nearly five years, during which time he never saw his wives. Either one of them. He managed to live a very spiritual, celibate–and spiritually busy five years without them.

So what DID happen during that eighteen years before His teaching began? We don’t know. There is a great deal of speculation, but the scriptures themselves are silent on that. Was He married? Was He part of the Essene movement, which was not only celibate, but rather misogynistic?

Get over the knee jerk shocked reaction and examine it. What is so horrific about the idea? Is marriage of the devil? Is the married state something sinful? What in the world is so horrible about the idea that He may have BEEN married?

Not 'shacking up." not “fornicating.” Not 'sleeping around."

MARRIED. You know, married. To a woman who would, of course, had to have been something pretty amazing.

 

[pismopal]

What about that question is unbelievable?

I mean, really, what difference WOULD it make? You tell me that His life was documented 'very well considering the time…"
and perhaps it was. However, that doesn’t make it very well documented. For instance, we have NO documentation of His life between the time He was 12 and the time He began His ministry, when He was thirty. That’s eighteen years of mystery to fill in.

If He lived the normal life of a Jewish carpenter (which He was…) His parents would have found him a bride when He was 18. Either they did, or they did not. We don’t know. by the way, whatever happened to Joseph? The assumption is that he died, because there is no mention of him. Jesus would not have had to ask someone else to take care of her if Joseph where around, but…what happened to him? When did he die? How? Was he able to stick around very long after Jesus turned twelve?

As you can see, ‘very well documented according to the time’ doesn’t mean ‘very well documented,’ at all.

Did He spend all His time ministering for His last three years? Well, yes. What was He doing before that? There is no record of that.

It happens more often than we like that married couples are separated because one of the spouses has to go somewhere, or do something, for an extended period of time. We see that in the military now.

My great grandfather, for instance, was a missionary in the south seas for nearly five years, during which time he never saw his wives. Either one of them. He managed to live a very spiritual, celibate–and spiritually busy five years without them.

So what DID happen during that eighteen years before His teaching began? We don’t know. There is a great deal of speculation, but the scriptures themselves are silent on that. Was He married? Was He part of the Essene movement, which was not only celibate, but rather misogynistic?

Get over the knee jerk shocked reaction and examine it. What is so horrific about the idea? Is marriage of the devil? Is the married state something sinful? What in the world is so horrible about the idea that He may have BEEN married?

Not 'shacking up." not “fornicating.” Not 'sleeping around."

MARRIED. You know, married. To a woman who would, of course, had to have been something pretty amazing.

I may be too kind to myself but I don’t think that my reaction to the off the wall theory that Christ was married is “Knee jerk”.
I am betting that you bought into the “DeVinci Code”…come on , be honest.
A man’s marriage is hugely important and the idea (besides the one I have already posed…you know the ministry idea)that Christ’s disciples and the witnesses to his ministry would not mention such a thing…not a word. Hey the ball is in your court…not mine it seems. Where is your evidence? I can dream up things that are interesting myself but I don’t confuse them with facts. There is nothing wrong with marriage( I should not have to say that ) but there is no evidence that the culture at that time would just forget to mention Christ’s wife.
Reminds me of the small town in Califonia I once lived in. If people did not already know everything about you it was license for them to make up anything about you, or you wife and family, that they wanted…so they did.

 

[pismopal]

dianaide
Your great grand father never saw either of his two wives during his “mission”? Other than the interesting obvious question which I won’t ask… People DID know that he was married didn’t they? Can you name any famous person male or female who tried to keep their marriage a secret?
I am a Catholic. Do you mind if I ask what religion are, if any? This might help me put things in perspective.

 

[DLC]

NO He had not children.

 

[FCEGM]

. . .What is so horrific about the idea? Is marriage of the devil? Is the married state something sinful? What in the world is so horrible about the idea that He may have BEEN married?. . …

It, of course, wouldn’t be a horrible idea to one who holds that God needs a physical body to BE God - or to one who holds that Jesus is one among other gods. The truth of Who He Is, however, obviates any consideration of a possible marriage. This, from Andre Louf’s Teach Us to Pray (Paulist Press, 1975) may better help you understand the Catholic rightful abhorrence of the idea.

Jesus not only became a human being, but also a man, a person of the male sex. That is not something either accidental or arbitrary. The possibility that God could become a human being was latent only in the male sex. The man, after all, is a symbol of God’s mighty Love, the Love that redeems and saves. Whereas woman represents the humanity that God has chosen for redemption and bliss [the Church]. That is why Jesus was bound to become a man. In the male sex the profound mystery of His being was prefigured: Jesus is the very image of the Father, His Love, faithful and strong, for human beings.

But there the symbolic value of Jesus’ masculinity stops. Or rather, it is already as complete as it could be. To take one step further and enter upon marriage here on earth with a concrete woman, that for Jesus would have been a nonsense. In the mystery of His proper nature, He, The God-Man, has received more than marriage with just one woman could give. For it is He Himself who give purpose and meaning to every marriage between human beings.

On the one hand the fulness of God’s Love was in Him, God’s tenderness as well as His toughness, for He was Himself God. On the other hand in His twofold nature, as God and man, He was the peerless marriage, the perfect conjunction, in His own person, between the redeeming God and redeemed humanity. In His divine nature He is the gift beyond measure, and in His humanity He is receptiveness par excellence. Thus in His emotional and sexual life as a man all tension was resolved. For His love was already satisfied and sated, was deeper and wider than He could have experience in a marriage. His physical status as man-and-celibate is the token of this.

Therefore Jesus qua man had also to remain virginal. In that virginity of His, the conscious and unconscious sexual dynamic, the masculine and the feminine pole in Him, are put wholly at the service of the spiritual reality which He is and to which He comes to bear witness: He is the Son of His Father and His image; among human beings He is the firstborn from the dead, the new man, or rather: the Man, simply the Man, Ecce Homo!

Jesus’ unique situation did not preclude a bond with woman. He counted women among His acquaintances, intimate friends, fellow-workers. In particular He had a mother; for like all human beings He was born of a woman. What is most remarkable is that this bond with His mother soon expanded into something much broader and universal. For from the very start every woman was more to Him that she was in her concrete and limited femininity. And all that she could be for Him Jesus had already been provided with in His own person. Thus Mary was not only His mother, but still more His sister, His bride, His daughter, and eventually His most intimate companion and the mother of all people.

We see in Jesus how sexual abstinence can bring out the profound spiritual reality of a person. It helps to lift man’s whole sexual potential on to another plane, where it can develop and be fulfilled without ceasing to be male or female. This fulfilment of human sexuality far transcends the gratification of its transient and constricted eroticism - a fact that will surprise no one who realizes how closely the whole of sex is interwoven with the image of God in man.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by dianaiad:
What about that question is unbelievable?

I mean, really, what difference WOULD it make? You tell me that His life was documented 'very well considering the time…"
and perhaps it was. However, that doesn’t make it very well documented. For instance, we have NO documentation of His life between the time He was 12 and the time He began His ministry, when He was thirty. That’s eighteen years of mystery to fill in.

If He lived the normal life of a Jewish carpenter (which He was…) His parents would have found him a bride when He was 18. Either they did, or they did not. We don’t know. by the way, whatever happened to Joseph? The assumption is that he died, because there is no mention of him. Jesus would not have had to ask someone else to take care of her if Joseph where around, but…what happened to him? When did he die? How? Was he able to stick around very long after Jesus turned twelve?

As you can see, ‘very well documented according to the time’ doesn’t mean ‘very well documented,’ at all.

Did He spend all His time ministering for His last three years? Well, yes. What was He doing before that? There is no record of that.

It happens more often than we like that married couples are separated because one of the spouses has to go somewhere, or do something, for an extended period of time. We see that in the military now.

My great grandfather, for instance, was a missionary in the south seas for nearly five years, during which time he never saw his wives. Either one of them. He managed to live a very spiritual, celibate–and spiritually busy five years without them.

So what DID happen during that eighteen years before His teaching began? We don’t know. There is a great deal of speculation, but the scriptures themselves are silent on that. Was He married? Was He part of the Essene movement, which was not only celibate, but rather misogynistic?

Get over the knee jerk shocked reaction and examine it. What is so horrific about the idea? Is marriage of the devil? Is the married state something sinful? What in the world is so horrible about the idea that He may have BEEN married?

Not 'shacking up." not “fornicating.” Not 'sleeping around."

MARRIED. You know, married. To a woman who would, of course, had to have been something pretty amazing.

A man’s marriage is hugely important and the idea (besides the one I have already posed…you know the ministry idea)that Christ’s disciples and the witnesses to his ministry would not mention such a thing…not a word.

Hi

I think the Mormon has mentioned things very logical.
The scribes of the NTBible wrote only a partial account of Jesus’ and Mary’s life, any body could observe it.

So dianaiad has actually put the ball in your court and would remain in your court untill you reply it with the same logic, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[dianaiad]

I may be too kind to myself but I don’t think that my reaction to the off the wall theory that Christ was married is “Knee jerk”.
I am betting that you bought into the “DeVinci Code”…come on , be honest.
A man’s marriage is hugely important and the idea (besides the one I have already posed…you know the ministry idea)that Christ’s disciples and the witnesses to his ministry would not mention such a thing…not a word. Hey the ball is in your court…not mine it seems. Where is your evidence? I can dream up things that are interesting myself but I don’t confuse them with facts. There is nothing wrong with marriage( I should not have to say that ) but there is no evidence that the culture at that time would just forget to mention Christ’s wife.
Reminds me of the small town in Califonia I once lived in. If people did not already know everything about you it was license for them to make up anything about you, or you wife and family, that they wanted…so they did.

Y’know, the world didn’t begin with the DaVinci code. I think that the DaVinci code is entertaining–but it’s fiction—and I was fifty years old before I read the thing.

Sheesh.

My position on Jesus being married is: I dunno. There is nothing to tell us whether He was EITHER WAY. He could have been–there is certainly nothing in my OWN faith that would cause Him to be dethroned from Godhood by having a wife. On the other hand, there’s nothing in it that insists that He be married, either. I guess I will find out eventually.

My question is a simple one. why does it matter? Nobody has actually addressed that, y’know. They get all aghast at the thought, but nobody has told me why it’s such a horrendous idea.

By the way, there were twelve apostles. Most of them were married. We do not, however, know much if anything about those women–even their names. Why?

Because of the culture of the times; women simply weren’t mentioned in religious matters. The things that were written in the gospels didn’t involve the wives, so they weren’t mentioned. You tell me that Jesus’ being married would have been so noteworthy a thing that someone would have mentioned it—but that’s silly. His NOT being married might have been noteworthy enough to mention, since pretty much everybody else was; but that he HAD a wife? THAT would have been unusual?

Not so much.

In fact, I would argue that it would have been more unusual for Him to have been single–and if unusual things ‘would have been mentioned,’ then that would have been.

But His marital state was never touched on. Other things, other teachings, were more important.

OK, we NOW think that wives are an important part of family and religious life. They didn’t think so much back then, y’know.

Back to the question: why is the thought of Him being married so horrible?

 

[FCEGM]

. . .

Back to the question: why is the thought of Him being married so horrible?

Answered in post #133.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

I think I mentioned in one of my posts that Jesus might have married three wives. As people from his lineage are mentioned in different lands. If that is so horrible for the Catholics; they should make a serious research in my opinion.

Thanks

 

[pismopal]

Hi

I think the Mormon has mentioned things very logical.
The scribes of the NTBible wrote only a partial account of Jesus’ and Mary’s life, any body could observe it.

So dianaiad has actually put the ball in your court and would remain in your court untill you reply it with the same logic, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

The same logic would be speculation my friend and anyone can speculate. I never use the word “horrible” connected with marriage. There is just no evidence that Jesus married. Since the speculation that Jesus was perhaps married was not accompanied by a shred of evidence…and because my religion says that He was not…I rest my case.Have a nice day!

 

[dianaiad]

It, of course, wouldn’t be a horrible idea to one who holds that God needs a physical body to BE God - or to one who holds that Jesus is one among other gods. The truth of Who He Is, however, obviates any consideration of a possible marriage. This, from Andre Louf’s Teach Us to Pray (Paulist Press, 1975) may better help you understand the Catholic rightful abhorrence of the idea.

First, the idea that He may have been married has nothing whatsoever to do with your perception of what Mormons may, or may not, believe about Him.

For one thing, since we believe that Jesus is/was Jehovah, it is obvious that we do not believe that He ‘needs a physical body to BE God.’ The idea is quite other; it’s not that He NEEDS a body. It’s that He is God–and happens to have one.

That aside, while I appreciate your posting of the article, and it does indeed help explain a bit, it doesn’t really address the question;

Or, perhaps, it does. Basically it comes down to this; the idea that Jesus could be born physically of a woman, grow from childhood to adulthood with all the stuff that goes along with that, and that he could suffer enormously and feel incredible pain at His death: that He could smile, feel joy, sorrow, cry–all these things that go along with being mortal; that’s fine. It’s the whole idea.

But there is something so inherently evil about actually having sex that the thought of His participating in THAT aspect of mortal life, even with his lawful wife, that the thought of Jesus engaging in it makes you go eeeuuww?

I guess that is simply something I don’t get.

Now me, I believe that sex is so important that nobody should engage in it EXCEPT with a lawful spouse, but since ‘marriage is ordained of God,’ what’s wrong with that?

Perhaps, though, we shall just have to leave it there, at least as far as I am concerned. It seems to be a pretty fundamental difference of opinion.

Diana, who, once again, doesn’t know whether He was married or not, and it doesn’t matter. He is still Who He is.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Dianaid,

You’re rather adept at avoiding responsibility for your allegations, aren’t you?

I hope you hold your students to a higher standard, I certainly do and they’re 8th graders.

Apologize for your statement about unmarried Jews not being allowed to read the scroll during services.

Or is it mormon troll technique to keep changing the attack, hoping some inane statement will not get too much attention?

Shame on you.

Robert

 

[Bill_Pick]

Dianaid,

 

[swariffin]

Hi

I think I mentioned in one of my posts that Jesus might have married three wives. As people from his lineage are mentioned in different lands. If that is so horrible for the Catholics; they should make a serious research in my opinion.

Thanks

From what the Catholic researchers, they found no evidence whatsoever historically and logically that Jesus has married, let alone to have children. It is you who bring the issue, it is you who must provide the proof.

 

[jean8]

Hi

I understand that the Catholics believe, sorry I don’t share this believe with them, that Jesus was a fully god (or 100% god) and a fully man (or 100% man) at the one and the same moment; kindly correct me if I am wrong.

A fully god has to be Creator of this Universe and beyond it if there exists any. He is a creator of all the physical, moral and spiritual realms; yet the creator is never one within them, as that would be paradoxical.

As a man or above that a fully man; Jesus has to be in the image of god exhibiting full powers/faculties that one could think of a man to have. That power requires of Jesus, that he should be able to regenerate at least (if he did not ever create anything). If he is unable to regenerate then he must be having some deficiency/defect (maybe some impotency, please excuse me). Since Jesus is fully man, so we understand from the above, that he must regenerate in any case. For regeneration he must had got married or otherwise he would be considered with some deficiency/defect (may be impotency, if it is correct to say).

Since Catholics believe that he is in full image of god, and I agree on that; this deficiency/defect/demerit/impotency would therefore reflect or impair his full god status logically. It would mean in other words that as god also he was incapable of creating nothing; not a good proposition.

I think to avoid this impairing reflection in the capacity of god, Jesus must logically marry a woman, rather many women, no harm (since he was a Jew who have a tradition of many marriages like David from his lineage) as that would prove his potency or regeneration capacity forthwith.

I don’t see any blemish if Jesus would have got married with Mary Magdalene, as some people in the West project, or Jesus had married Marian in Kashmir and has off-springs also from them. I won’t object and I keep it open. Jesus could marry more in Kashmir, Afghanistan (as some people call themselves Issa Khail, children of Jesus ) or elsewhere in India (not strange at all as he was from the line of David) as per the Jewish tradition.

Those Kashmiris or in Afghanis/Pukhtuns who say that they are from his pedigree and are his children actually come here to the rescue of the Catholics in my opinion; and this news should be an occasion for merry making like Christmas and not of rejection.

This way at least Jesus is proved a fully man; sorry if he was not god; except that like Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Socrates and Zoroaster he was fully illuminated with the light of God Allah Parmesher Ahura-Mazda YHWH and this way he was **like many other Messengers one with God Allah **(as per the Muslim tradition Messengers are numbering 12500000 approximately in the whole world).

This is the only sense in which sometimes the Messengers tell this phenomenon to their followers that they are one with God.

No disrespect is intended to any person, religion, faith or creed; we are discussing things in search of truth and Truth Jesus and Mary loved so much.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

paar,
I usually don’t bother with questions of this nature.
Jesus is God. What makes you think he would marry?
Did your god marry anyone?

jean8