Did Jesus Really Son of God/God or The Prophet

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Just some statistic information: Worldwide
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                                 Christian                Muslim

 1900                           26.9%                    12.4%

 1980                           30%                       16.5%

 2000                           29.9%                    19.2%
projected 2025 25% 30%
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Muslims are growing worldwide currently at 2.9%.  .6% faster then the world population.  Old western countries are abandoning christianity at an alarming rate......Why?   The USA still has strong christian religious beliefs but they too are eroding.  3 to 6 million Muslims now live in America.  Within a period of time they will have a say in our government as they will run in elections in strong muslim communities and their beliefs will start to reflect in our laws of the land.  It might take a couple generations but its coming!

Big changes in our cultures are coming as Muslims increase in numbers.

This again must have something to do with  Is Jesus really the Son of God..........and the numbers are reflecting this now. More and more christians question their faith.   It shows that christianity is having a hard time keeping the people they currently have and new generations are going elsewhere.   Our grandchildren are going to see these changes!
That is quite true. I do not have any data. But I trust that data supplied may be true. I am not interested in spreading the news. Whatever the Muslims are doing, it may not after all be right. But they seem to be hanging on in the face of severe opposition.

Next: Most of the atheists in the wrold today have hailed from the christian background. The wiser the people are, the more they question their religion. But the religion is quite outdated, old model and does not satisfy them. So they (christians) become disbelievers in any God.
 
Jesus was never a christian or a catholic. NEVER. I don’t believe he is the son of God.
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   Christians changed Gods divine plan.   God tells us in the bible that saturday is the sabbath, the day that Jesus would have gone to pray.  Well christians decided lets change Gods plan and make it Sunday.  jewish people pray with their hands behind their backs as Jesus did.  Christians pray with their hands in front.   Christianity has done everything to sanitize themselves from Jews.   Jesus was a Jew his whole life and practiced that till his death.   Too much faith by christians on one line     Upon this rock......did it really happen?   Don't know, and neigther does anyone else.   

   Christianity has become by the most part a family tradition that has been handed down for centuries.   Your parents, grand parents, etc etc might have been catholic and indoctrinated their families into this tradition.   The same parallel with your neighbors who might have been raised Jewish or Protestant Muslim etc.   A family tradition........except for those that converted, who used their own free will to make their educated decision.  I do applaud those people for their beliefs,  but not someone who was taught from baptism  nothing else but the family tradition,  your religion is not really a belief but a family tradition.
one then is to assume what you stated above is what you where taught as a child and are now teaching your children???and where did your excellent morals come from?the romans who would gorge themselves then vomit it up so they gorge themselves more?or from the vikings who killed anyone just for fun?how about the eastern asian’s who thought the leader was god?or the aztecs who sacrificed people for a good crop?perhaps atila the hun is the source of your morals.one can run but one can never hide forever.
 
This again must have something to do with Is Jesus really the Son of God…and the numbers are reflecting this now. More and more christians question their faith. It shows that christianity is having a hard time keeping the people they currently have and new generations are going elsewhere. Our grandchildren are going to see these changes!
you seem too much worried about numbers…you shouldn’t… in the Middle East Muslims are turning to Christ from Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, and even Saudi Arabia…so maybe you must come live here to witness what is going on among people who found the answer to your question 😉
 
… God tells us in the bible that saturday is the sabbath, the day that Jesus would have gone to pray. Well christians decided lets change Gods plan and make it Sunday…
I think Saturday was the sabbath because it was God’s way of preparing us for Jesus’ death; Saturday was the day Jesus laid resting in the tomb.

In ancient Rome, in was illegal to be a Christian (kind of like some of today’s extreme Islamic states). And in ancient Rome, Sunday was their day of rest. If a Christian was to be found out in ancient Rome, they’d be fed to the lions. Consider that Sunday is the day that Jesus rose from the dead, and you’ll see that Sunday works well to be a new holy day.
 
you seem too much worried about numbers…you shouldn’t… in the Middle East Muslims are turning to Christ from Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, and even Saudi Arabia…so maybe you must come live here to witness what is going on among people who found the answer to your question 😉
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Not worried about anything.  Just giving factual information about where Christianity and Islam are going to be in the future, that is obvious you don't want to believe or hear.  Put your head back in the sand.  

 I still can't believe that catholics get their backs up everytime someone questions something about the church or Jesus.  Remember a belief is not a FACT.  Facts are more important to me and most others.

 If some Muslims are turning to christianity its because catholicism does the same that Jehova Witnesses do......100 years ago  in america  catholic/protestant religious groups went into the Indian villages in america and tried to convert north american natives into catholicism.  "Send in a little indian boy and at the other end he comes out a newly minted catholic.  Catholics currently are in third world countries knocking on tents or mud huts trying to convert the people.   "We will dig you a water well or build you a new village, but remember for us to do this we will also build catholic schools/churches.  If you don't let us teach you about christianity we will not do these things for you" and we will leave!  ......just like jehova witnesses do.   LEAVE  PEOPLE  ALONE with their own beliefs and cultures.  Thats what makes the world a beautiful place.   Not this carrot and stick mentality.
 
Not worried about anything. Just giving factual information about where Christianity and Islam are going to be in the future, that is obvious you don’t want to believe or hear. Put your head back in the sand.

you are the one talking about numbers, and am giving you other info to add to your “factual” info…i don’t live where you live…and am telling you of what is going on in the lands you don’t live in…
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 I still can't believe that catholics get their backs up everytime someone questions something about the church or Jesus.  Remember a belief is not a FACT.  Facts are more important to me and most others.
 
You say…in here Muslims turning Christians lose most …etc. Your RIGHT!! Its been going on for years. However most catholics don’t know about their own history. ALL catholics should google … . CATHOLIC INQUISTION… and learn a lot about how the catholic church for centuries operated in killing millions who defied them. Google …POPES MARRIED…read about the dozens of popes who had married and had children and had illegitimate children of popes…its not hard to find that information. Its all about power/money. Celibacy is there for one reason. That the priest wills his belongings to the catholic church or diocese. They don’t want to have to share it with a family he might have. Google it! These are a few other reasons I don’t believe Jesus was the son of of God.
Yeah, like the internet never has any sites that lie about history. And its obvious that you may already have a predisposition to believe any cynical tirade against the Church.

Let’s not go the inquisition route. It’s been well established that the Church never recognized the legitimacy of the inquisition nor endorsed it. And it has also been well established that atheism has killed way more than it’s fair share of people just in the last century-and-a-half than the inquisition or the crusades EVER did.

How you can connect these issues with whether or not Jesus is the Son of God is to me like saying 2+3 can’t be 5 because 4 and 6 killed a bunch of people and 7 and 8 are greedy and 9 is a liar. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Look, its obvious that you are either in the process of turning away from God if you haven’t already. Being a Catholic I have tried to give you scriptural basis to believe but it just seems that in your mind anything any Catholic, or anyone else for that matter, says to you to contradict your notion you will immediately reject.

I will pray for you in the hope that love will beat out the obvious cynicism that exists in your heart. God’s love is gentle and will not force it’s way in to a heart which has already closed itself off to His love.

I also suggest that this be the end to this thread because at this point it seems to be doing more harm than good.

God Bless.
 
You should Look at Proverbs VIII : 22-31:

Verse 22. “The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his ways, before he made any thing from the beginning.”
23. “I was set up from eternity and of old, before the earth was made.”
24. “The depths were not as yet and I was already conceived: neither had the fountains of waters as yet sprung out.”
25. “The mountains with their huge bulk had not as yet been established: before the hills I was brought forth.”
26. “He had not yet made the earth, nor the rivers, nor the poles of the earth.”
27. “When he prepared the heavens, I was present: when with a certain law and compass he enclosed the depths.”
28. “When he established the sky above and poised the fountains of waters.”
29. “When he compassed the sea with its bounds, and set a law to the waters that they should not pass their limits: when be balanced the foundations of the earth.”
30. “I was with Him forming all things: and was delighted every day, playing before Him at all times.”
31. “Playing in the world: and my delights were to be with the children of men.”

The Literal sense of this would be :

That it treats of the ideas or decrees, which were in the Divine Mind before the Creation of the world; and that, in its literal sense, it speaks of the Person of the Incarnate Word and of his most holy Mother, while in its mystical sense it refers to the holy angels and prophets. For before decreeing or forming the ideals of the rest of the material creation, He formed and decreed their prototype, the most sacred humanity of Christ and of his purest Mother, and this is indicated by the first words.

And the Mystical Sense would be:

“The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his ways.” In God there are no ways, and his Divinity does not need them: but He made use of them, in order, that by them we may know Him and that all of us creatures, who are capable of knowing Him, may tend toward Him. In this beginning, before He formed any other ideal in his mind, because He desired to create paths and open ways in his mind for the communication of the Divinity, He decreed, as a beginning, the formation of the humanity of the Word, who was to be the highway, by which the other creatures might come to the Father (Joan. 14, 6). Joined with this decree was that of his most holy Mother, through whom his Divinity was to enter into the world, becoming man and being born from Her as God and man; therefore it is said: “God possessed me” since both were possessed by his Majesty: for as to his Divinity, He was the possession, the property, and the treasure of the Father without possibility of separation, because Father and Son are One, of the same substance and Divinity with the Holy Ghost; and also as to his humanity, the Father possessed the Son; because He himself knew and decreed the plenitude of grace and glory, which He was to bestow upon it at the moment of its creation and its hypostatical union. Moreover, as this decree and possession was to be brought about by the mediation of the Mother, who was to conceive and bring forth the Word (since He did not decide to create it out of nothing, nor form his soul and body out of any other material), it followed that He possessed Her, who was to give Him the human form. Thus He possessed and claimed Her as his own in the same instant, providing with solicitude, that in the order of grace neither the human race nor any other, should have at any time a right or a part in Her. He alone retained the full right in Her as his portion, and so much his portion as the dignity of Mother required. She alone was to call Him Son, and She alone was to be called Mother, a Mother worthy of having an incarnate God for a Son. Now as all this far surpassed in dignity the whole creation, so did it also take the precedence in the mind of the supreme Creator. Hence He says:

“Before He made anything from the beginning, I was set up from eternity and of old.” We, in our present state, conceive this eternity of God as an interminable time. What were the things “of old,” since none had been created? It is clear that the three Persons are here spoken of, namely, that She was foreseen from the eternal ages of the Divinity, by the Beings, which alone are ancient, namely, the indivisible Trinity (since all the rest, having a beginning, are recent), that She was foreseen when only the ancient Uncreated was, and before any ideals of the future creation were formed. Between these two extremes intervened the ideal of the hypostatic union which was to be verified ad extra through the intervention of the most holy Mary. Both were ordained together, immediately next to God and before any other creature, and it was the most wonderful decree ever passed or ever to be passed. The first and most admirable image in the mind of God, next to the eternal generation, was that of Christ and next to it, that of his Mother.
*-Ven Mary of Agreda-
*
I will stop there. That basically explains the first two versus thoroughly, and also show God as Triune; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 
inJESUS;3435168:
You say…in here Muslims turning Christians lose most …etc. Your RIGHT!! Its been going on for years. However most catholics don’t know about their own history…
what does this have to do with the rest of your post? do you use any reply to digress into irrelevent stuff just because you are angry? let me tell you something : the Catholic church have had and will have its share of both bad people and saints…we pray for the bad ones who were given much but did not know how to use it, and we learn from the lives of the saints…i can add to your list, and you can add everyday the wrong doings of some and the charity and good morality of others…welcome to the real world where not everyone who says " lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven".
 
impalass;3435652:
what does this have to do with the rest of your post? do you use any reply to digress into irrelevent stuff just because you are angry? let me tell you something : the Catholic church have had and will have its share of both bad people and saints…we pray for the bad ones who were given much but did not know how to use it, and we learn from the lives of the saints…i can add to your list, and you can add everyday the wrong doings of some and the charity and good morality of others…welcome to the real world where not everyone who says " lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven".
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 Not angry at anyone, but not afraid to speak my feelings.  You pray for the bad ones you say.........and what does that do?  Really what does it do?  You are implying that I am a bad person because my belief or lack of belief is not the same as yours.  Thats awful arrogant.   There will always be bad ones and good ones.  Thats Gods divine plan.....remember we were taught that at an early age.  Everything is already mapped out.

 What do we learn from the lives of the Saints?   


  You say not  everyone who says " lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven"  Says you?   I do remember when I use to go to church the priest says during the Eucharist   "ONLY SAY MY NAME, AND THOU SHALL BE HEALED"  Doesn't sound what you are implying or what you want it be . We  were also taught that God is everywhere....right? remember?   Then there is no Hell I guess.  Can't see God being there.   These things I say are not trivial.  I teach my children to question.........to learn.  To not question........is to not learn.
 
do speak your feelings…but the way you are doing reflects too much anger and bitterness…nothing personal but am talking to you from a human to a fellow human…you need to relax a bit and have an open mind…not everything works as you want it to work…not all people behave as they should…and we all fall for bitterness and anger but remember it is a feeling that kills the person himself…it is self-destruction…we must be open to tolerance and forgiveness as there is too much evil in this world…and where sin is plenty, there is grace as well…
You pray for the bad ones you say…and what does that do? Really what does it do? You are implying that I am a bad person because my belief or lack of belief is not the same as yours. Thats awful arrogant.
please quote where i said this and i will leave this forum!.
There will always be bad ones and good ones. Thats Gods divine plan…remember we were taught that at an early age. Everything is already mapped out.
fine that is why i cannot judge the church from some bad priests…if the church is bad for some bad priests/acts/policies, then the church is good for good priests/acts/policies…the result is that we must make things better because we are within this church.
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 What do we learn from the lives of the Saints?
how they lived in the same world we are living in…
what they confronted…how they confronted things…their reactions, their prayers, their charities, their miracles, their words…
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  You say not  everyone who says " lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven"  Says you?
no , says Jesus 🙂
I do remember when I use to go to church the priest says during the Eucharist “ONLY SAY MY NAME, AND THOU SHALL BE HEALED” Doesn’t sound what you are implying or what you want it be .
both are correct depending on your faith and work and intentions.
We were also taught that God is everywhere…right? remember? Then there is no Hell I guess. Can’t see God being there. These things I say are not trivial. I teach my children to question…to learn. To not question…is to not learn.
no one said we should not question…see how many questions hundreds post everyday?🙂 we are all learning.
 
impalass;3439236 said:
do speak your feelings…but the way you are doing reflects too much anger and bitterness…nothing personal but am talking to you from a human to a fellow human…you need to relax a bit and have an open mind…not everything works as you want it to work…not all people behave as they should…and we all fall for bitterness and anger but remember it is a feeling that kills the person himself…it is self-destruction…we must be open to tolerance and forgiveness as there is too much evil in this world…and where sin is plenty, there is grace as well…
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Its healthy to have a debate.  This forum can be very personal to many who post on here.  Especially with this question...... Was Jesus really the son of God.....
I understand and respect others views, however when someone continually quotes from the bible, a book written nearly 2000 years ago and re-written over again and the third century the catholic church made some major changes, some adding and some deleting, also by adding their own belief traditions, I found myself at an adult age deciding for myself after looking at the many religions that belonging to a group (catholicism) was not for me. I am an independant. I believe there is a higher power or force. I have never seen it but I sense it. You have never seen God but you believe. I also believe that things happen because they happen. I don’t believe God changes the weather forcast in any area so someone can have a sunny wedding day that they pray for, or heavy rains come because farmers have had a drought. It doesn’t happen. When someone is sick, they pray. It might give comfort but it doesn’t change the sickness. I have never seen evidence of that. I spent 30 years as a Captain on a large fire department. I saw good things happen and saw the worst. Most bad that happened was because of ignorance or studpidity…Most good happened, by being in the right place at the right time. Period! Like I said praying might give solace or comfort but it doesn’t change what was destined to happen either good or bad. I have experienced a lot in my 58 years. Not condemning any church. Its just not for me. When something goes wrong I figure it out myself. If I can’t…then it wasn’t meant to be. As I said we were all taught growing up in the church that God (higher power) has a plan. Trying to change Gods plan is not in the cards for me. I believe God (higher power) would respect me more for trying to figure the situation out then people continually praying for things to change. Roll up your sleeves…things will get done!
 
Jesus allows all baptized Christians to help in his redemptive plan-Praying for unbelievers and the misinformed helps the unbaptized enter heaven through just such prayers.

We need to respect all religions and pray for each other-how will there ever be peace in the world if we insult and/or belittle the beliefs of others?

God has a plan, His will is always done

Peace
 
We need to respect all religions and pray for each other-how will there ever be peace in the world if we insult and/or belittle the beliefs of others?
God has a plan, His will is always done

I agree with you and end this forum with a Quran Verses:55 & Chapter:3

Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith, to the Day of Resurrection; then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Peace
 
Thanks Tom, it was good while it lasted. I could not agree with impalass idea against prayer. There is a Creator and He has revealed his messages to mankind. In His message he says " Call on me. I will accept your prayers."

The prayer is most important, even more than medicine. If some one says that people die even if we pray for them. But the people die even after taking the best medicines.

There is another link for the prayers (supplications) to Allah. It is said in Islam that “actions depend on intentions.” That is a Hadith number one of the holy prophet. When actions depend on intentions then how do we know any ones good intentions except through his prayers. Even though we cannot find out anything about any silent prayer. But the prayers set the intentions of he person in good order. That will be his wills and wishes.

That will set the path for the actions too in the right direction. We are eating, and smoking and drinking and gambling and sleeping daily time upon time. The only thing which is missing is the time for ourselves, the time to be alone, the time to pray to Allah. One day all time will run out.

The simple answer is: If there is a God then we need to pray to Him and Him alone. About Jesus, the right man of God, was prophet of God. It is proved by the bible that he prayed to his God in the garden before his arrest. The Jews also believe in praying (?), The Muslims definitely believe in praying to the Creator God Allah. So it appears that only the atheists will not need to pray to any one.
 
The simple answer is: If there is a God then we need to pray to Him and Him alone. About Jesus, the right man of God, was prophet of God. It is proved by the bible that he prayed to his God in the garden before his arrest. The Jews also believe in praying (?), The Muslims definitely believe in praying to the Creator God Allah. So it appears that only the atheists will not need to pray to any one.
Jesus is praying to God, who is His Father. More, the NT makes it clear that Jesus is neither only human, nor only divine: He is both fully divine - the eternal WORD - and fully human - the human Jesus Christ born of the Virgin. We do not believe in the incarnation to be a lie!

15: 16 You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jesus asks His followers to pray the Father in His name alone.

For further info on this go to answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_praying.htm

peace to all,
Angelos N.B.
 
Judge
Dear Fellow Christian 🙂 and Muslim Brothers and Sisters, As-Salaam-O-Alikum! May Peace and Blessing with you all.

My Question is on Christianity. If Jesus is Son of God or God. Did he told about judgement day when exactly it will happened or when he will come to the world again for judge the world as you say so.Coz after all he is Son of God or God in your religion.Please explain

We Muslims Believes that Jesus PBUH is one of the Greatest Prophet whom Allah/God give him so many miracles perform with the will of Allah/God to their people and he will return to this world from Allah/God order.And rest i hope you know what our believes coz after all we are the fasting growing religion in the World.

Thank you very much. I am looking forward to see your point of view about this post.
Judgement day?Only God knows.Gee if tomorrow was the day will we clean up our act and behave ?belive?what proof do you want ?If you want proof then ttake a good look at the Bible its all you need…dont let fear keep you from the true meaning in life .have courage to seek what you fear
 
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