Did Jesus regard Mary as his mother?

[Revelation13_16]

Dear CA,

An interesting discourse developed in another thread as to whether Jesus regarded Mary as his mother, or just another woman.

Now that thread contains alot of interesting posts which would be far too laborious for me to transport to this thread, so instead I will give you the background of how we eventually got on to this topic and the key quotes.

It all really started when during my earnest investigation into Catholicism, I was having doubts about whether Jesus (God) would listen to his mother’s intercession for us in heaven.

I - based on my knowledge of the gospels - said:

Jesus never acknowledged Mary as his mother.

Jesus never once called Mary “mother”, he always refered to her as “woman”.

LilyM then said:

In the biblical languages the word translated as ‘woman’ was actually a term of great respect, not at all dismissive of her.

To which I said:

Mother would have been nicer.

Any woman can be called woman, but only a mother can be called mother.

To which jmcrae said: (broken in two parts)

1) Not true. In the entire Bible, only two women are called Woman - Eve, and Mary. The rest of us are women (that is, modelled after Eve), and can be called “a woman,” but only those two receive the actual title, Woman.

To which I said:

Not true.

And then I listed all the times in the Canonical Bible that a female was refered to as “woman” in the 2nd person.

Here are the verses I cited: (“woman” in 2nd person inbold)

Luke 13:10-13 (Jesus heals an infirm woman)

And he (Jesus) was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up [herself].

And when Jesus saw her, he called [her to him], and said unto her, **Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. **

And he laid [his] hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

Luke 22:56-57 (Peter denying he knows Christ to an accuser)

But a certain maid beheld him (Peter) as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.

And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.

John 4:21 (Jesus speaks with the Samaritan adultress)

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

John 8:10 (Jesus convinces Pharisees not to stone adultress)

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

John 20:13-15 (Angels speak to Mary Magdelene and then Jesus speaks to Mary Magdelene)

And they (Angels) say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

continued

 

[Revelation13_16]

Then I answered jmcrae’s 2nd part, which was:

2It was not an insult-word; He was giving her the same title that Eve had, before she sinned.

To which I said:

Not true, it was a general expression for any woman.

And that is what the Scripture indicates.

Jaypeeto3 then said in response to that claim:

Not for one’s own mother, it wasn’t.
Such a use is unattested anywhere in scripture for
one’s own mother.

To which I said:

Exactly.

Jesus didn’t see Mary as his mother.

He saw her as just a nice woman who fit certain requirements (lineage of David, virgin etc) to provide his entry into this world.

To which a buzz began, and Jaypeeto3 said:

Whoever could believe such a thing is clearly not understanding the sense of the scriptures.

To which I said:

The usage of the word “woman” from that Scripture clearly shows that it was not a special term of reverence (as someone claimed) but rather a general term.

So the debate continues about how Jesus viewed Mary, and I think it’s an important one to have (but please, let’s be nice and rational) because at this time I’m not convinced and I can’t go through RCIA unless I’m 100% sure that Roman Catholicism is the truth.

God Bless,
Rev

Here is the original thread which contains alot of info, it begins on page 2, but most of the meat about this subject is on page 3, God Bless - Rev: link

 

[HailMary]

Honestly, if someone ever brough that question up to me, I would not even answer it because it doesn’t deserve to be dignified. You REALLY have to despise Our Lady in trying to remove her motherhood.

 

[Mannyfit75]

When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own." John 19:26-27.

Notice, Jesus did not address the disciple by his name. We know this disciple is John. The unnamed disciple is unknown because the Gospel writer, John meant the disciple to be the believers of Jesus Christ, his followers.

Paul also told us, that through our baptism, we have become the brother and sisters in Jesus. This make Mary our spiritual mother.

When Jesus gave his mother to John, he acknowledges that Mary is his mother. I don’t think Jesus hate Mary.

I think this thread does disrespect Mary and Jesus Christ himself. It also disrespectful to us Catholics.

 

[Truthstalker]

I didn’t read the other thread, but I will chime in anyway. God inspired Scripture, right? That means that what Jesus thinks is recorded in Scripture, right? Doesn’t Scripture regard Mary as His mother? When Elizabeth spoke by the Holy Spirit in Luke 1, she called Mary the mother of her Lord. In Luke 2:33 and 2:48 she is referred to as His mother. Now either you consider the text of Scripture as adversarial to what Jesus thought, or you consider that God is in agreement, Father with Son, Son with Spirit, Spirit with Father, and that the text of Scripture, not just the direct quotes, conveys the thoughts of Christ.

Another approach you can take is that Jesus was perfect. He fulfilled the law perfectly. Part of the law He wrote was that we are to honor our mother and father. So it is obvious that He honored His mother perfectly, and would never have done anything to bring dishonor upon her. To say otherwise is to accuse Jesus of sin.

If you want to regard God as having used Mary as some kind of chemical retort to manufacture the God-child, after which Jesus wanted nothing to do with her, then your understanding of healthy family relationships is somewhat lacking. Emotionally healthy people have strong emotional bonds to their families, especially to their mothers. You may desire to assert that Jesus was insane, or had a bad relationship with His mother, but then He would neither be sinless or perfect, or anyone that we would want to love. God is love; Jesus is love; Jesus loved His mama.

Still does.

You want to pick a fight with somebody, go slam his mama. You want to pick a fight with Jesus? NOT smart.

 

[Revelation13_16]

You REALLY have to despise Our Lady in trying to remove her motherhood.

6 minutes.

You said this a mere 6 minutes after my post.

Now granted, reading the original thread is optional (though helpful), I question as to whether you could have really thought about the points made here before defaulting to emotion.

I do not hate the Blessed Virgin Mary at all.

God Bless,
Rev

• ofcourse it was a typo, “at all” wouldn’t fit except with the negative.*

 

[Mannyfit75]

6 minutes.

You said this a mere 6 minutes after my post.

Now granted, reading the original thread is optional (though helpful), I question as to whether you could have really thought about the points made here before defaulting to emotion.

I do hate the Blessed Virgin Mary at all.

God Bless,
Rev

Why do you hate the Mary, the Mother of Jesus?

 

[water]

Luke 1:41-42
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Elizabeth was saying this in the influence of the Holy Spirit who consider Mary to be the mother of the Lord.

Luke 1:31
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus

The angel says it as a “son”. He is son of Mary; thus, Mary is His Mother.

Luke 3:51
He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart

Even Jesus is God Himself, He was obedient to His Mother because She was His Mother.

If one doubts about Mary being Mother of God, he/she doubts about the Divinity of Jesus. Not only that, he/she doubts about the Bible for the authors of Gospels also called Her Jesus’ Mother.

 

[Church_Militant]

Does the phrase “grasping at straws” mean anything to you with that argument?

I don’t think anyone can offer any scripture to support the belief that Jesus did not.

Please let me know if they do though.

 

[Truthstalker]

6 minutes.

I do hate the Blessed Virgin Mary at all.

God Bless,
Rev

I hope this is a typo, for your sake.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I hope this is a typo, for your sake.

I hope it is a typo.

 

[Revelation13_16]

When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own." John 19:26-27.

Notice, Jesus did not address the disciple by his name. We know this disciple is John. The unnamed disciple is unknown because the Gospel writer, John meant the disciple to be the believers of Jesus Christ, his followers.

This is tenuous, in many other cases he refers to Apostles by name.

He could’ve also said “Mother, behold thy son”, but didn’t.

Paul also told us, that through our baptism, we have become the brother and sisters in Jesus. This make Mary our spiritual mother.

Scripture also says we have one intercessor through Jesus Christ.

When Jesus gave his mother to John, he acknowledges that Mary is his mother.

But he never said it, he called her “woman” like he called other women who were not his mother. Claims that “woman” in the 2nd person was some trumped up form of reverence have been shown to be unfounded.

I don’t think Jesus hate Mary.

I nowhere said Jesus hated Mary - nowhere.

I’m merely stating the evidence seems to indicate that he loved her like he loved other women.

I think this thread does disrespect Mary and Jesus Christ himself. It also disrespectful to us Catholics.

You definately disrespect Christ if you hold Mary in a higher light than he did - especially using her as intercessor.

I’m very suprised by this Manny, and saddened, I expected better from you.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Then I answered jmcrae’s 2nd part, which was:

To which I said:

And that is what the Scripture indicates.

Jaypeeto3 then said in response to that claim:

To which I said:

To which a buzz began, and Jaypeeto3 said:

To which I said:

So the debate continues about how Jesus viewed Mary, and I think it’s an important one to have (but please, let’s be nice and rational) because at this time I’m not convinced and I can’t go through RCIA unless I’m 100% sure that Roman Catholicism is the truth.

God Bless,
Rev

Here is the original thread which contains alot of info, it begins on page 2, but most of the meat about this subject is on page 3, God Bless - Rev: link

1. RCism isn’t the truth - Christ is the Truth. No Church is more than a truth-bearer, a small light lit from the True Light. No Church, or other created thing, should ever be given the position that is Christ’s alone.​

1. As to your q. - He recognises her as His mother in Luke 2, by obeying her & St Joseph. She says “Thy father and I…” - He does not dispute that they are his parents, & Luke even calls them His parents.

However, that is not all - because later on, He subjects all blood relationships to the far more important relationships which are formed by obedience to the Will of His Father in Heaven. He does not deny that He has brothers & a mother - but His real “brothers & sisters & mother, are those who do the Will of [His] Father in Heaven”. ##

 

[Revelation13_16]

Why do you hate the Mary, the Mother of Jesus?

You know I don’t because you participated with me in the other thread where I state many a time that I called Mary the Blessed Virgin.

Ofcourse it was a typo, “at all” wouldn’t fit except with the negative.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[Mannyfit75]

Revelation:

You definately disrespect Christ if you hold Mary in a higher light than he did - especially using her as intercessor.

I’m very suprised by this Manny, and saddened, I expected better from you.

God Bless,
Rev

Rev,

I do not consider Mary higher than Jesus. I do acknowledge that she is one of the honorable and most faithful Christian. She was the first to say to God, “I am the handmaid of the Lord. Be it Done onto me According to Your Word.”

I thank Mary for giving us the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ.

As for questioning me who I consider higher would be erroneous. No Catholic place Mary above her Son. Jesus said, “Love your God first.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

You know I don’t because you participated with me in the other thread where I state many a time that I called Mary the Blessed Virgin.

Ofcourse it was a typo, “at all” wouldn’t fit except with the negative.

God Bless,
Rev

thank God. I do mean Thank God you didn’t meant it and that it was a typo.

 

[Revelation13_16]

If one doubts about Mary being Mother of God, he/she doubts about the Divinity of Jesus. Not only that, he/she doubts about the Bible for the authors of Gospels also called Her Jesus’ Mother.

water, no one is doubting Mary is the Theotokos, this is not a question of whether Mary was the mother of Jesus or not, rather it is a question of whether Jesus regarded Mary as his mother or not.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[LilyM]

Now Rev, you know the Bible wasn’t written in English. Neither did Jesus speak in English. How about we get someone who knows Biblical languages (which can be your good self if you do) to tell us if the same word(s) is (are) used in regard to Mary and Eve as in all the other instances you’ve pointed out.

Second thought - why on earth would almost his very last words (‘behold your mother’) be full of care and concern for a woman who meant no more than other women to him?

Why didn’t he tell John to look after Mary Magdalene as well, and to see to the welfare of the other women who were there on Calvary? They were his followers too, obviously devoted to him, and he undoubtedly WAS very close to Mary Magdalene. Yet he has not a word for any of them, not even for her, only for his Mother. How can you doubt that she held a special place in his heart?

 

[water]

water, no one is doubting Mary is the Theotokos, this is not a question of whether Mary was the mother of Jesus or not, rather it is a question of whether Jesus regarded Mary as his mother or not.

God Bless,
Rev

Didn’t the Holy Spirit help Elizabeth recognize Mary was the mother of her Lord?

Didn’t Jesus obey Virgin Mary?

The “woman” used in few instances have far more meanings than just a common word “woman”. I am not a good writer about it, but I could find article explaining it very well and when I get it, I post it for you.

 

[Revelation13_16]

1. RCism isn’t the truth - Christ is the Truth. No Church is more than a truth-bearer, a small light lit from the True Light. No Church, or other created thing, should ever be given the position that is Christ’s alone.​

No, the Roman Catholic Church claims 100% of the truth, it claims it is the true Church Christ founded upon St. Peter.

1. As to your q. - He recognises her as His mother in Luke 2, by obeying her & St Joseph. She says “Thy father and I…” - He does not dispute that they are his parents, & Luke even calls them His parents.

Yes, he obeyed her on earth ofcourse, he was God, he must obey his own commandment, especially in the eyes of everyone else.

Whether he continues to obey her as mother is a tricky question though.

Furthermore, it is not how Mary or Luke see themselves/Mary, it is about how Christ himself saw Mary.

Hence the use of 2nd person speech.

He does not deny that He has brothers & a mother - but His real “brothers & sisters & mother, are those who do the Will of [His] Father in Heaven”. ##

Nor does he affirm.

But in any case, it’s not about the family relationship he’s in, it’s his personal relationship with Mary that is in question here.

God Bless,
Rev